I'm looking to buy a car. I've never owned a car and I don't know jack about them. I'm looking for some advice and I know I can't trust the dealers worth shit, because they'll tell me anything to milk every last dollar I own out of me.

I don't think there are any cars I can buy new within my budget. I'd like not to spend more than $6000-$7000 (cash, no financing). My goal was to find a used car that is a recent model year with relatively low miles and still under factory warranty.

What kinds of cars might I be able to get that fit into this range?

I really don't care what it looks like (I don't care about the design but I do care about its exterior condition) as long as it runs reliably. Options are nice, but as far as I'm concerned don't add any value to the car (The only option I care about is A/C).

I went to a chevy dealer and they showed me a 2005 Aveo with 49,000 miles.

Suggestions as to models, how to buy a car without getting ripped off, etc. would be nice.

5/18/2007 11:13:01 AM

toyota camry..?

5/18/2007 11:55:09 AM

I would think either a Honda Civic or Toyota Corrolla would be the perfect car for someone like you. Their American competition (Ford Focus, Chevy Cavalier, etc.) really can't hold a candle to them IMO. They last forever, get good gas mileage, are cheap to insure, and have good build quality. I'd strongly prefer the Civic, but either would be a good car.

I doubt you'll get either car with a factory warranty for $6000-$7000 though.

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 12:00 PM. Reason : s]

5/18/2007 11:59:44 AM

yea, you're not gonna get a civic or corolla with factory warranty that's under $7000. The good thing is that those cars generally are so reliable that it's not a big deal if they don't have warranty. Even when you fix them, the cost to fix is relatively cheaper than other cars.

5/18/2007 12:04:29 PM

why don't you take that money and put it in the bank so it can earn some interest. go finance a kia. they come with a 100K warranty and are not expensive at all.

5/18/2007 7:06:50 PM

Kia or Hyundai isn't really a bad idea in your situation. If you want to pay cash, you're very unlikely to get a warranty for under $7000. But for that $7000, you can do fine. I prefer Hondas to Toyotas (Civic for mileage, Accord for more room) but you can't really go wrong with either.

5/18/2007 7:24:45 PM

go for the kia with the 100k warranty

5/18/2007 7:49:41 PM

What about a Jetta or Passat (2000 year or so)? Good gas mileage? Reliable?

5/24/2007 3:21:46 PM

^ but relatively expensive to work on if you have any issues.

5/24/2007 4:11:25 PM

^ but relatively expensive to work on if you have any issues.

5/24/2007 6:08:34 PM

How expensive? I like the jetta's appearance more than a civic, but if i can't afford to keep it running then obviously it's pointless.

6/1/2007 3:33:54 PM

Oh yeah, since you said you have never bought a car before, remember that you need to talk to the dealer to get them to bring the price down. Don't forget about tax + tag + fees that will add to the cost of the car. Ask the dealership once you've found a car you're interested in if you can take it to your mechanic and get him to check it out (this is usually about $75). Ask the mechanic to write down a quick quote for any repairs the car would need, then get the dealership to knock that off the price and haggle with them from there to see if you can get them to go any lower (e.g. "Well, I dunno... Those seats in the back are worn out pretty bad, and the upholstery on the ceiling looks like it's starting to go, can't you go any lower? I gotta fix that stuff too...").

Don't let the dealership upsell you or show you a car based upon your price range either. Walk through their lot and look at what they've got. If it doesn't have a price on it it's probably too expensive. If you're not super experienced with cars, get a car guy to go with you and let them listen to the car as you take it for a test drive. They might pick up on stuff like warped rotors (you'll notice vibrations when you slow the car down), engine problems, transmission problems (strangely hard shifting, delayed shifting, problems accelerating), etc.

When you go and check out the car the first time, stand outside behind the car and let the salesman start it. Watch the exhaust and look for blue smoke (if you see blue smoke it's burning oil and you might want to avoid it). Also when he starts it, listen for any bullshit like squealing (serpentine belt needs tightening/replacement), and other horrible noises that you don't hear when other people start their cars. Inspect the car thoroughly inside and out, look for stains in the carpet, cuts and tears in the upholstery, make sure all the seatbelts work, all the doors open and close, make sure all windows work (power or hand-cranked, doesn't matter), make sure it comes with all of its emergency gear like a spare tire, jack, lug wrench, etc (if it's missing any of this get them to reduce the price). Look at the paint on the car, make sure none of it on the fenders or the hood or the bumpers looks newer or less faded than anywhere else on the car (this is a sign that it was in a wreck and had a fender or body panel or something replaced or repaired, and if it doesn't show up on the carfax it's a doubly bad sign because you don't know how bad the wreck was). Check the alignment between the different metal panels on the car's body. Make sure it doesn't look like it was in a wreck and fixed at some piece of shit auto shop (we fucked up with this on my last car, my 1990 jeep, and it had way too many damn problems as it had probably been in 2 wrecks and neither was on the carfax). Check the tread on all the tires using a penny. I think the rule is if you hold it so lincoln's head is pointing toward the center of the tire. At least part of his head should be covered by the tread in order for it to legally be considered street-worthy. If this is not the case, get them to knock some off the price (tires ain't cheap). Look for cigarette burns and sniff for cigarette smoke. Ask them if the car was a fleet vehicle (if it is try to get a little knocked off the price, fleet vehicles are usually treated like crap and will have more problems down the road). Look underneath the car before you get in it as well and look for anything nasty like oil spots or green puddles of engine coolant (my last car had both of those amusing problems, though the latter was the serious leak that nearly killed it once). Make sure the AC works, the wipers work and are good (just spray some wiper fluid on there while you're at it to make sure they spray OK), test the power mirrors, any power seats. Make sure all interior and exterior lights work (hazards and all that). Make sure to test those lights too because if you have any problems with them at all (like on my current jeep, the hazard light switch is faulty so sometimes when you turn them on only ONE of the four turn signals is actually blinking) they may be very expensive to fix and could indicate other electrical problems with the car. Test the radio and the cassette/cd player. Test the cigarette lighter if you give a shit. Give the exterior of the car a thorough examination for rust. You not only want to get them to knock a little more off the price for this, but you also want to make sure to deal with this rust quickly after you buy the car. This might involve a little sanding and some touch-up paint for a quick fix (though you should ask around again before you do that to make sure you don't just ruin your car's paint job unnecessarily).

Look underneath the car for holes in the muffler and rust underneath the car. Sometimes cars have made their way down here from up north where they salt the roads during the winter and the underside and interior of the car can get some really bad rust problems. This will probably lend to a shorter life for the car and provide (yet another) justification for a discount. Pop the hood as well and look at the engine. Make sure all the hoses look like they're intact (rubber hoses aren't cracking, all hoses are hooked up to something and not just hanging off the engine somewhere, nothing has been ass-fixed with duct tape or anything). Look and see if there's any aftermarket parts in the engine that are fairly visually apparent (like a cone-shaped air intake or some bolt on performance shit). If the last guy modded the car and the car looks sketchy, there's a good chance he did a shit job on it and it'll just give you problems down the road.

And as for the road test, take it a few places. Take it over a few speedbumps at about 8-12 mph and see if the suspension makes any wonky noises (like my current car does now!). Give it one fairly hard acceleration and make sure the car doesn't lose power anywhere through accelerating up to the speed limit, just to make sure it doesn't have any super major engine/transmission problems (do this a couple times without pissing off the salesman). Make sure the car drives in forward, reverse, and all of the modes on the transmission (I doubt you'll be looking at a 4wd vehicle but try the modes on the transfer case and make sure the damn thing will shift out of 4wd back into 2wd if you want it to). Again, check the wipers, windows, what have you. Make lots of left and right turns, make very tight turns and hold them in each direction and listen for any funny noises (clicking might indicate cv joints going out or some other problems depending on the car's year and type and so on). Make sure the car has enough power for you, you don't want to buy an econo car and then be afraid to drive it because it doesn't have enough balls to get onto the highway. When you're accelerating listen for any funny grinding noises from the front of the car or the rear of the car (could indicate drivetrain problems).

Yeah this is just a little rant, I'm sure there's more you could check for than this, and you may not have to check for all this shit just to see if the car is worth it or not. I guess as a general rule you can go by the following when looking for a car:

In order of reliability, you're probably going to see lowest reliability to highest reliability (by nationality) in this order: Korean, American, European, Japanese. And as far as cost goes I'd guess lowest to highest in terms of nationality would go: Korean, Japanese, American, European. That's not exactly right for all cars, I mean trucks will tend to be cheaper to fix than sports cars, and sedans will be a nice middle-of-the-road in terms of economy and repairs all around. These are just generic statements that are definitely not true in all cases, I'm just throwing them out there as a general rule of thumb so you can narrow down what you're looking for.

As far as engines in cars go (and reliability), you will probably want to avoid a turbo-charged car with high miles, as maintenance like replacing the turbo or servicing the engine might have to be done at the dealership or at a specialty shop that'll cost you more $$$. I can't really say whether you should look for a manual or automatic transmission for reliability, as some car companies are good at one and shitty at the other (just ask around if you're not sure).

And, uh, I guess as far as car recommendations go in that price range:
-Honda Civic/Accord
-Toyota Camry/Corolla
-Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe (Maybe in your price range, has good mileage and good cargo room)
-Ford Taurus (You'll get transmission problems here if the car has high miles so be careful. They're very safe cars, which is a plus.)
-Ford Focus (I haven't heard of major problems being had with focuses, just that their build quality isn't as good as a toyota/honda)
-Nissan Sentra
-Chevy Aveo (Small and Korean, but economical and driveable)
-Kia Anything (Cheap as ass, might be reliable as ass with high miles though. I would consider leasing one of these since you can get them for like $99/month and in 2-3 years I doubt you'd break your budget)
-Chevy Impala/Malibu (Another american sedan, but I don't know as much about these. I imagine they aren't too expensive for the base models)
-Volkswagen Jetta/Passat TDI (I hear of fewer problems being had with diesel engines and they last forever, however the only thing in your price range will have a ton of miles).
-Volkswagen Beetle (They're actually not bad in terms of reliability from what I've heard, but they're still going to cost $ to fix)
-Dodge Caliber/Jeep Compass (These are little hot hatches that you might be able to get with a warranty in your price range. They're still fairly new though so I'm not sure about what problems they'd have.)
-Mazda Protege (Another econo-sedan)

6/1/2007 4:48:23 PM

PART TWO OF MEIN POSTEN!!!

If you read this, you have a lot of spare time on your hands. :E


Things to avoid:
-Luxury brands (they will cost you some money to fix and will cost more than the non-luxury branded equivalent just for a few more features, you'll get more from the non-luxury company for your dollar. Volkswagen is falling more into this category these days)

-SUV's (Most of the ones that are on the market today will probably not be the most reliable car you could get for your money. If you don't know what you're looking for or what specific models and model years would be sure bets for a good car, you don't even want to look at them. Plus dropping $60 2 or more times a month for gas gets pretty old after a while.)

-Really crappy looking car dealerships (If they've got cars on the lot for less than two grand, they might be selling a bunch of marked up $800 cars that they gave a good washing and cleaning in hopes that you don't notice that gigantic puddle of oil underneath the car.)

-Pushy dealerships (If you want a car and the salesman is pushing you to buy a different car, and it's pretty apparent the salesman isn't steering you away from a fleet vehicle or a smoker's car, you should probably try somewhere else. If you're inexperienced and they pick up on that, they'll probably try to sucker you into something they've got a higher margin on.)

-Listening to Salesmen (When you're riding with them in the car and they start talking about oh yes I love *insert brand here* they're so reliable, they're great cars, this one's so clean... just kind of phase them out and pay attention to the car. We had a salesman try to push the car we have now by trying to gloss over all the problems it had. Just remember that when you notice something fishy, and if the salesman tries to write it off like no big deal, you should remember that "something fishy" and mention it to the mechanic when you drop off the car for its pre-buy inspection.)

-Bullshit expenses on the invoice (If the dealership pushes a service package on you or some sort of in-house warranty (like michael jordan nissan apparently does), tell them you won't buy the car if they try to add that on there. They might try to get you to buy a service plan that doesn't cover what you really need, and you will probably want to get the car fixed somewhere besides the dealership unless it's under warranty (since it costs more (always) to fix stuff at the dealership).

Yeah... I can't really think of anything else to add to this right now. If I'm wrong on any of this you all feel free to correct me. There's definitely a LOT to consider when buying any car if you want to make sure you don't get fucked.

Oh yeah, some people should make suggestions as to where to take the car to get it looked at for a pre-inspection. At the very least, make sure to take it somewhere BESIDES the dealership's in-house mechanics. You want a non-biased mechanic to look at the thing.

Good luck!

6/1/2007 4:48:56 PM

Quote :

"How expensive? I like the jetta's appearance more than a civic, but if i can't afford to keep it running then obviously it's pointless."

For example, my Audi S4 cost $1500 for timing belt change, $1200 for CV boot replacement, $1000 for tires it eats through every 1.5 years, $1600 for an Airbag Sensor, and $1300 for ABS Module repair. If you need a code run, you'll have to take it to the dealership.

Not to mention the standard additional maintenance costs. Oil changes are extra, it uses a special filter that some places dont even have in stock, and a lot of oil - better off taking it to the dealership for most maintenance. Leith Audi is run by a bunch of idiots.

Imagine repair costs for a Honda and multiply it by 3.

6/1/2007 7:04:06 PM

you really shouldn't be comparing costs of s4 ownership to that of a jetta. yes, german cars are going to cost a little more to keep running that a honda or toyota. if you want the cheapest possible a to b appliance don't consider anything other than those two. but if you're looking for something more...

6/1/2007 8:55:31 PM

your looking for a 89-91 honda crx HF in totally unmodified unmolested condition.

the good news is, you will only spend around half your budget

6/1/2007 9:15:53 PM

Mindstorm, thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I'll definitely take it into consideration. I really appreciate the car list because it includes a few models I hadn't thought to look for yet.

^ Why the CRX and why so old? I'd imagine it'd be tough to find one without eleventy billion miles on it. I could get a mid to late 90's EX for under 5 grand.

6/1/2007 10:30:03 PM

Haha, you're welcome. I did it in less than thirty minutes, I just spat out everything I could think of when it comes to looking for a car.

I would also say that you should do some research on those car models as well. If you search, there's a lot of review websites out there that post their test drive results for older cars (charging for info on new models or some shit). Pretty handy if you want to get a rough idea of whether the car sucked even when it was new.

6/2/2007 11:30:11 AM

Damn it's hard to find a good car for a good price. Maybe I should go for a cheap car that I can afford to replace in a couple years...

?topic=482896 ?

6/22/2007 10:36:51 AM

Mr. Primer has an excellent suggestion I never would have thought of. Good call. But they seem a little hard to find these days, especially unmolested/un-ricered.

6/22/2007 10:44:05 AM