Do Prayer for Judgment Continuance (PJC) show up on background checks as convictions?

I'm not asking whether PJC is a conviction (it is not), but whether it shows up on background checks as convictions.

4/22/2007 4:55:12 AM

pretty sure they do. unless the case was sealed or expunged from your record, it's going to show up.

4/22/2007 8:41:35 AM

I believe it shows up on a background check, but if you are asked "Have you ever been convicted of..." the answer is "No."

4/22/2007 10:59:24 AM

yeah, technically you haven't been convicted of anything, but employers interpret things in different ways. i know the NC DOJ considers a PJC a conviction for employment purposes within the department.

4/22/2007 11:06:50 AM

lol TWWJD....

4/22/2007 11:07:47 AM

Quote :

"Prayer for Judgment Continuance (PJC)"

What is that? I am intrigued.

Yes, I know google and wiki exist, but TWW trumps'em all.

4/22/2007 12:47:15 PM

more or less you admit fault, and if you keep your nose clean for 3 years the charge is dropped. however, if you get in trouble within those three years you have to face the punishment for the first charge.

It is most common with traffic violations.

4/22/2007 12:56:06 PM

thanks.

isn't there another one like that, where you don't admit guilt, but also don't profess innocence? so you get off easier.

4/22/2007 12:58:43 PM

i think that is a no-contest plea. I'm not sure though.

4/22/2007 1:01:58 PM

most applications i've ever seen say you have to indicated if you've plead anything other than not guilty...ie you'd have to show no contents

4/22/2007 1:09:38 PM

a PJC is not a plea of some kind, it's a way to avoid punishment for something you've been convicted of. as such, it does show up on your permanent record

4/22/2007 1:15:49 PM

Quote :

" i think that is a no-contest plea. I'm not sure though."

it is not a no contest plea. its a guilty plea with a request for prayer for judgement.

Quote :

"it's a way to avoid punishment for something you've been convicted of. as such, it does show up on your permanent record"

once the required time elapses, all references are completely removed from your record -- its as if it never happened.

someone said three years, but im pretty sure my ex- got one for one year. maybe it depends on the judge. whatever.

the whole point of a PJC is so first time offenders ultimately dont have a conviction on their record and dont have punishment beyond court costs.





[Edited on April 22, 2007 at 1:26 PM. Reason : ]

4/22/2007 1:21:12 PM

if i got a PJC for anything, even if the time was not up yet, i would not say anything about it on any kind of job application.

except those requiring DoD Secret or Top Secret clearance.

4/22/2007 1:23:04 PM

PJC is unique to North Carolina I think. That's one thing that's good about living in NC.

4/22/2007 1:25:24 PM

Quote :

"once the required time elapses, all references are completely removed from your record -- its as if it never happened"

i don't think this is true

4/22/2007 1:25:28 PM

^ im pretty sure it is.

ive been to court a lot

but it has been a while, and my memory is kind of bad.

4/22/2007 1:27:42 PM

Quote :

"isn't there another one like that, where you don't admit guilt, but also don't profess innocence? "

Alford plea

eh, that and the no-contest are somewhat similar

[Edited on April 22, 2007 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2007 2:05:25 PM

^^i've had a lot of tickets, but never had to use a PJC, so i'm going from memory of what i've read...

this, however:

Quote :

"I'm not asking whether PJC is a conviction (it is not)"

is most definitely not true

^no contest pleas, as i understand them, are only useful in that you are not admitting responsibility for something that could be used against you in a civil trial...if you were to plead guilty to murder, for example, you would almost certainly be liable for wrongful death. whereas with nolo contendere pleas, civil liability has to be proven

4/22/2007 3:49:44 PM

is this tww justice dept. or a play on wwjd?

4/22/2007 4:18:18 PM

Okay... Here is the full story. I got arrested for *something* (misdemeanor) several years ago and got a PJC, since then I have not had any arrests or convictions. So I got this nice internship offer for this summer, housing paid for, good pay, etc.

On the application it had a section asking:

Quote :

"Have you been convicted of a crime? If so please explain."

So I checked "No" because PJC is not a conviction.

I got this offer in March. So last week, the HR rep calls me, basically saying "We found this misdemeanor on your record, and because you did not report it on your application, we have to rescind your offer."

So I was pretty much panicking, since:
#1. This was an awesome opportunity.
#2. It's fucking 2 weeks left in the semester so it would not be easy to get another internship can offer comparable pay, benefits that easily.

I asked her for the details of the charge, she refused to disclose any of it, basically said "Sorry, good luck."

So I've been researching this a lot...
There are two mistakes...
#1. They regarded the PJC as a conviction.
#2. The details of the charge itself was wrong on the background report... instead of "[the real charge]....." it said "Handling of Dangerous Reptiles....misdemeanor."

Under the Federal Credit Reporting Act and the state statutes where the employer resides. Applicant who is disqualified for employment based on criminal record must be given adequate notice and reasonable time to confirm or deny accuracy of information. So clearly they've violated both federal and state law in this case, but not giving me the opportunity to challenge the accuracy of their report, instead taking unilateral action and rescinding my offer letter.

Because they failed to provide the required disclosures about adverse action, I have option to sue for damages in federal court. If successful, I may recover court costs, reasonable attorney fees, also punitive damages.

I'm not going to sue. I'm going to contact them and get my damn job back.

4/22/2007 8:32:36 PM

^ did you not pay the 65 dollar fee to have it expunged?

4/22/2007 9:56:45 PM

i realize theres a lot of misinformation here.

so i'll repeat it for you for no extra charge:

you *pleaded guilty* and *were convicted* of _____. the fact that you got a PJC, does not change this

in other words: you have a conviction. it is a conviction. you were convicted. conviction is the thing that happened to you. something was done and the thing that was done is called a conviction.

did i mention that getting PJC does not change the fact that you pled guilty and were convicted?

now the point of a PJC, is to allow first time offenders the opportunity to (1) avoid the normal punishment on the charge, and (2) allow the record of your conviction to be removed at a future point.

(1) and (2) are contingent upon the person being convicted (see that word, that word is "convicted") -- that they do not get convicted of any subsequent crime for a certain time period.

i thought that time period was 1 year. someone else said 3 years. at any rate, you would have been told this by the judge who granted your request for PJC.

now when that time period is up, the record of the conviction that you got a PJC for is removed or can be removed. I do not know which. maybe it is removed automatically, maybe you have to personally contact someone to have it removed. in any event, the courts often make errors (ive had a few made on me), and you need to follow up on this regardless.

sorry to hear about the snafu wiht your internship. i would have said "NO" too. just chalk it up to learning experience, and "hey i dont want to work with such anal fuckers anyhow". in the future, be sure your PJCs are resolved before denying the conviction.

i would say you either didnt understand the time period or other requirements for removal, or the court fucked up. (sounds like the court, just from what you said)

but ultimately, you said you didnt have a conviction on your application, they did a check and found that you did.

lying on an application -- in and of itself -- is grounds for immediate retraction of any employement offer and/or termination if employment has already been started. the company is not in violation of any laws. the problem is either you lied, or the court is wrong. or somewhere between the two. good luck getting the court to admit they were wrong. they'll just fix the error and say "next!"

good luck finding another internship. i'd say you'll still be able to. i found a killer one in early may and started in late may.

i suppose you can go and try and make your case with the management at this job you want. but be prepared that youre going to need to let this one go.




[Edited on April 22, 2007 at 11:10 PM. Reason : ]

4/22/2007 11:02:16 PM

I would consult an actual lawyer since this is having an effect on your job outlook.

When I got into trouble I didn’t take a PJC, I did a deferred prosecution instead (you admit quilt, but they agree to defer punishment and penalties for a year). Basically, I had to agree to have no trouble with the law for a year. A year later I came back for prosecution and since I fulfilled the requirements the ADA dismissed the case. However, it was still on my record that I had admitted guilt, so I specifically asked my lawyer and the judge how to take care of this because I wanted to go to law school/grad school. I ended up having to pay an extra 65 dollars to have it expunged. I later had the privilege of working at the courthouse and was able to pull up my records and it came up clean. In addition, background checks didn’t show it anymore.

[Edited on April 22, 2007 at 11:41 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2007 11:41:07 PM

Quote :

"I would consult an actual lawyer since this is having an effect on your job outlook. "

but he did, right? the TWW Juris Doctor

4/23/2007 1:35:19 AM

Quote :

"all references are completely removed from your record -- its as if it never happened."

I don't think so. In fact I think it's still listed on your public records. Besides, everything short of expungement can still be found on your records by the DSS, OPM, etc... As such, you should always list everything unless you know for sure that it was expunged, not just "sealed" or otherwise stricken from your court record.

Quote :

"I would consult an actual lawyer since this is having an effect on your job outlook."

He probably would have been fine if he had just admitted it. What's the lawyer going to do anyway?

4/23/2007 7:55:19 AM

4/23/2007 11:31:20 AM

Okay. Apparently NONE OF US know what the fuck we're talking about. Including myself. This thread is full of misinformation and half truths, and I'm as bad as any of y'all.

Now I'ma quit talkin out my ass and just post a link from some lawyers who, I feel safe in assuming, do know what they are talking about.

Quote :

" WHAT IS A PJC? A Prayer for Judgment Continued, or PJC, is a finding of guilt without the entry of a judgment. It is usually obtained after a plea of guilty but sometimes a judge can enter a PJC after a not guilty plea in a trial after a finding of guilt. A PJC is not a conviction for most purposes but theoretically could be converted to a conviction at a later date in some circumstances (however this rarely happens except in cases of a PJC for a time period to be dismissed - see below.) For automobile insurance purposes, one can have up to one PJC per household every three years that will not cause insurance premium increases. For driver’s license purposes, a driver can have up to two PJCs within a five year period which will not result in driver’s license points nor have any effect on the driving record of the person receiving the PJC (except that one of the two PJCs per five years is thereby used and will appear on one’s DMV record). For criminal defendants in federal court, a prayer for judgment may be considered a conviction for the determination of the sentencing level upon conviction of a federal crime. For impeachment purposes–that is when a person is testifying in court and the opposite side wants to use a criminal charge conviction for purpose of impeaching their credibility–a PJC after a not guilty plea is not considered a conviction but a PJC after a guilty plea is considered a conviction. A PJC to be "dismissed" is like a deferred prosecution. After a plea of guilty, the judge can make a finding of guilt without entering judgment and set a new court date, usually a year later, at which time if the defendant has met the conditions set out by the judge, then the charge can be dismissed. Thereafter, it could be expunged so long as the defendant had no prior expungement. The conditions for dismissal almost always include the requirement that the defendant violate no others during the period of the deferred prosecution. Sometimes the judge may order that the defendant complete community service or complete drug classes, etc. In general, if our clients are concerned about whether or not they need to reveal a PJC on an application for employment or school or otherwise, we recommend that our clients always be truthful. We recommend that if the question is "Have you ever been convicted of a crime," and a charge resulted in a PJC, the answer is "no," but indicate a charge was resolved with a PJC and explain that you understand a PJC is not a conviction because there is no entry of judgment. In short, a PJC is, except for limited purposes, a disposition of a criminal charge with no entry of judgment and thereby no conviction. However, there remains a slight chance that it could be converted to a conviction in the future if the state attempted to prey that a judgment be entered. Copyright 2004 http://www.attorneydavidcollins.com/Article_PJC.html "

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 12:47 PM. Reason : ]

4/23/2007 12:47:21 PM

Quote :

"Prayer For Judgment Continued The other way one may escape punishment is a device called "Prayer for judgment Continued", or PJC. While you are, in fact, convicted of the offense, it is not entered on your record as a conviction, and you may not be punished as for a conviction. A PJC is most commonly allowed when one has a very good record or there are extenuating circumstances in the case. It is completely within the discretion of the court. When a judge, in his or her infinite wisdom and grace, continues the Prayer for Judgment in your case, neither DMV points nor insurance points may be assessed for that offense. It is only valid, however, if no other PJC has been entered on the driver's insurance policy for the prior three (3) years. (thus, if you were on the policy with your father, Dad's PJC last year negates your PJC entered today.) A Prayer for Judgment continued does go on your permanent record. When you get too many DMV points (12 in a 3 year period) or speed resulting in suspension of your driving privilege, the Department of Motor Vehicles will notify you by mail at your record address. You have the right to a hearing and should request one. Depending on your record and situation, they may limit the period of suspension or allow you a special privilege to drive. It is wise to consult an attorney for any citation, although many charges may be handled in court without the assistance of counsel. "

http://www.unc.edu/student/orgs/sls/pages/topics/traffic_misdemeanors.htm

more

4/23/2007 1:03:30 PM

Quote :

"When a judge, in his or her infinite wisdom and grace, continues the Prayer for Judgment in your case ... "

good lord.

i think i would avoid the UNC student org's mickey mouse "explanation"

4/23/2007 1:10:30 PM

^i think this is called sarcasm

4/23/2007 1:15:05 PM

They call me Doctor T-dub (Doctor T-dub)
I'm your Doctor of T-duuub (Doctor T-duuu-uuub)

4/23/2007 2:29:54 PM

Okay, It's not that I knowingly choose to not admit it. I just always thought that the charge was taken care of with the PJC. I started doing these research after they rescinded my offer.

4/23/2007 4:10:40 PM

oh, i figured it was something like that.

i just never admit anything. if i get caught on it later, oh well.

it works for me.

but i dont do any DoD work either.

4/23/2007 4:24:30 PM