So I was looking at the discription for this course, and I dont know how it isn't just plain old calculus. Can someone who is in this class tell me what it is like? Easy? Also it says preq. MA 225 (MA 407 preferred)...would MA 407 really help all that much?

3/27/2007 2:58:28 PM

It's calculus done more rigorously.

In freshman calculus, for example, you do limit problems using certain "limit laws". What's the limit of x^2 as x approaches 3? By continuity, you can just plug in: The limit is 3^2=9.

In 425: What's the limit of x^2 as x approaches 3? In this class, you do it using the epsilon-delta definition of a limit.

In freshman calculus, you cover things like the mean value theorem (MVT), fundamental theorem of calculus (FTC), and learn how to apply those things.

In 425, you study the proofs of MVT and FTC in detail, and rigorously prove generalizations and variations of them.

So the difference between the two classes is in the ability to prove theorems. I don't know if you've ever been exposed to epsilon-delta proofs for limits, but that's a big chunk of 425.

3/27/2007 3:27:35 PM

Yeah, it really depends on where you learned calculus and how it was taught. If you haven't heard of 'epsilon-delta proofs' then the course will be completely new for you. MA 407 content wouldn't help the class at all, but the style of math and proof would.

Go look at a text book for analysis and you'll see the difference between it and your calculus book.

3/27/2007 3:48:53 PM

MA425 and MA426 are (arguably) the two hardest undergraduate MA courses ... and from some viewpoints, more difficult than their graduate equivalents. If you haven't taken a theory MA course yet, I would encourage you to do so before jumping into MA425.

3/27/2007 4:14:41 PM

If you are a statistics major, as your info says, then MA225 is required. Take that first.

If you plan on going to grad school for Statistics then you want to consider taking MA425 or MA511. I think I remember Dr. Paur saying she recommended her statistic students to take 511 instead of 425. MA425 is more rigorous. You can take MA511/425 as an elective somewhere.

You don't need 407 material for 425, but you strengthen your proof concepts in 407 significantly.

[Edited on March 27, 2007 at 4:39 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2007 4:38:19 PM

it really depends who is teaching it. Some are safe, some are wicked hard. Lets see, Paur or Franke.

Well if you want to know it really really well and have little else to do take Paur.

I don't know about Franke, but I'd guess he'll be less picky.

Either way don't expect to learn anything new or useful, its mostly just getting a super refined look at
calculus you already know. If you go into it thinking you'll be able to calculate new things then you'll be sadly disappointed by the course. I certainly was. (and I love math)

3/27/2007 7:25:00 PM

Franke is a very very good teacher. More picky than a lot of the professors, but less so than Paur.

^not sure what you were expecting. MA425 lays the foundation for all future classes, where you can learn or"calculate" "new" things, as it were.

3/27/2007 8:13:35 PM

MA 425 is arguably your first exposure to "real" math. It's rigorous proof of single-variable calculus. It's detailed, arduous, and in the end you realize everything that you knew to be true is....still true. MA 426 a little bit moreso, as Dr. Fulp said "this is the class that seperates the math majors from the mathematicians". I don't know anyone who would describe MA 425 as easy; it's a completely (for the most part) new way of looking at calculus. You talk about "exceptions" to the rules you learned in calc 1, and generalize those theorems to larger ideas.

I had Schecter for 425, audited it half way through, then had it with Franke and pulled a B, and am now in 426 w/ Fulp. The concensus is to avoid taking Paur if you can, as she just adds extra layers of pain to the class.

If you're a math major, there is no avoiding this class. I mean, everything interesting is in one way or another analysis.

3/27/2007 8:24:35 PM

^ I dunno about the concensus. I had paur for 425 and franke for 426. I really liked paur a lot better, but then, i also really liked the class.

3/28/2007 9:07:19 AM

^^ if you are an analyst or an applied person perhaps, but for many of us ma 407 or ma 405(the vector space theory part) is the first "real math" we see. Ma 225 is to silly to count.

3/28/2007 11:52:36 AM

Dr. Franke is outstanding for 425...I highly recommend him for any course.

3/28/2007 12:05:20 PM

Real math in the sense of rigor and proof. Even in 405 they dole stuff out to you and tell you how to use it. At least, I learned that much when I took 520 and really learned what was going on. 407 is more proofy than not, true.

As for me, I'm definitely in applied math and analysis was a rude awakening.

3/28/2007 7:54:42 PM