Does anyone have any experience with obtaining in-state residency for tution purposes. My application was recently rejected, and I'm going to appeal. I'm thinking I should get a lawyer for the hearing and was hoping someone might have a recommendation.

2/16/2007 1:27:23 PM

There is likely no way in hell you will ever attain in-state tuition. I'm about to graduate, have lived and worked here for four years, am registered to vote here, and registered my car here, and I my claim was never accepted. My parents are even friend with the Wake Tech dean and he tried to get it for me, but could not. They will always find some asinine loophole to deny you. Might as well save your money and tough it out or go back home. For me, the loophole was that my parents pay my tuition and their primary residence is not in NC (even though they have a house in Wilmington), therefore I'm not eligible until I'm 23 and if I start paying everything on my own.

2/16/2007 1:32:20 PM

well, my permanant residence is listed as my aunt and uncle's house in wake forest. I've had a NC lisence and car registered here for about 2 years. My parents have not been paying my tuition for a year and a half. I'm registered to vote here. I at least want to talk to a lawyer to see if they can help in anyway, maybe find a loophole that will acctually benefit me, who knows

oh, and I havent been a dependent for a year and a half as well

[Edited on February 16, 2007 at 1:41 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2007 1:38:40 PM

The only time I've known people to get in-state status is if they are graduate students. Of course though, then it saves the college money.

2/16/2007 1:41:20 PM

i did everything they said you have to do for 'a year'

FOR THREE YEARS

before they let me have it

and i had to go through 4 billion channels before i finally got it

2/16/2007 1:44:43 PM

Wish I could help ya out.

Quote :

"oh, and I havent been a dependent for a year and a half as well"

If your profile is accurate, according to the Dept Of Ed, you have not. The DOE refuses to consider any student under the age of 23 an independent student, no matter what. For financial aid, there are sometimes ways around that, but you can't use this argument when appealing their decision.

If you manage, let us know how you did it.

2/16/2007 1:46:01 PM

Quote :

"my permanant residence is listed as my aunt and uncle's house in wake forest"

That's probably a red flag. Living with relatives doesn't exactly scream I'm here to stay.


I should add that what is the point of out of state tuition if one can come here to go to college and then claim they live here their sophomore year? If you came to NC for college, you have no right to expect in-state tuition. They should pass a law saying that if you enter as an out-of-state student, you should stay an out-of-state student.

[Edited on February 16, 2007 at 2:55 PM. Reason : ?]

2/16/2007 2:51:48 PM

Quote :

"The DOE refuses to consider any student under the age of 23 an independent student, no matter what. "

This is not true. If you have had honorable military service, you are no longer considered a dependent.

2/16/2007 3:05:51 PM

We went through all that shit back when I started here. We moved to Texas the summer before my senior year in high school. I came back and started the process to get in state tuition. I worked and paid NC taxes (a big thing), got a NCDL, my permanent address was also my grandparents address. However, the only thing I can think of that would be different from your situation I that my parents owned and paid taxes on the house that I was actually living in. That actually came up in the hearing. So, I dont know. They might have gotten a lot tighter on that shit as of late. Hopefully everything works out for you. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

2/16/2007 3:07:31 PM

Gah.
That's true. As are a few other exceptions that don't apply to most of TWW and so I always forget to mention those.

2/16/2007 3:13:45 PM

I was able to get instate tuition. My parents are both from NC but dad was in the Air Force but was able to keep his state of residence as NC throughout his career. I myself had never lived in NC before until I started school here and they gave me in-state tuition. They said the key thing was that we (my parents) had paid NC taxes on all their stuff.

Of course this was back in Aug 01 when I came out here

[Edited on February 16, 2007 at 3:28 PM. Reason : year]

2/16/2007 3:27:41 PM

I was able to get it, i'll send you a PM later tonight

2/16/2007 3:47:00 PM

I was hired as a full-time salaried for the state and I got it for VA after 3 months.

2/16/2007 4:47:51 PM

Having a beach house in Wilmington does not a resident make.

2/16/2007 5:21:07 PM

^

2/16/2007 5:35:46 PM

Quote :

"Of course this was back in Aug 01 when I came out here"

from what I've heard it used to be alot easier

2/16/2007 6:19:16 PM

My parents have had the beach house for years and paid taxes on it, I've had a house here for four years, worked here, paid taxes here, voted for a president here, done pretty much everything that qualifies as being a resident, but the problem was that my parents paid tuition, if you're parents don't, you might have a glimmer of hope.

That said, go to student legal services.

P.S. Totally different for active military brats, if you're mom or dad is active and they have even a remote claim to military residency here, you can get in-state, I have several friends who did this.

[Edited on February 16, 2007 at 8:08 PM. Reason : merf]

2/16/2007 8:07:01 PM

I think they want to see that you either were here for a year or more before coming to school, or you do something that would change your status. For me, I got married, so even though the marriage license was VA since we both had NCDL's etc. etc. we got approved for in-state.

2/16/2007 10:35:03 PM

Quote :

"from what I've heard it used to be alot easier"

i dunno about easier.

when i first started, ncsu decided that i was an out of state resident, even though i had been living in NC my whole life. they are a bunch of morons. i had to create a scene to get consideration.

2/17/2007 10:57:51 AM

My girlfriend is trying to get in state at UNCG, and has been trying for 2 years. Shes about to be a junior and if she doesn't get it she can no longer afford the debt and is either going to have to take time off or go home. She lived in NC for 3 years, graduated highschool here, then moved to England for three years and came back. Shes been going to UNCG 2 years, has insurance, has lived off campus, is registered to vote, is working, is about to file taxes, and has a North Carolina DL. They still denied her last semester.

2/19/2007 10:47:25 PM

Quote :

"The DOE refuses to consider any student under the age of 23 an independent student, no matter what. "

Quote :

"This is not true. If you have had honorable military service, you are no longer considered a dependent."

There are several other ways like being married, both of your parents being deceased, etc. But in general, most people aren't considered independent until they are 23 by Jan 1 of whatever year they are applying for aid for, no matter who pays how much of what. Not sure whether this has anything to do with in state versus out of state status though. GL in any case...

[Edited on February 19, 2007 at 10:54 PM. Reason : ]

2/19/2007 10:53:40 PM

I'm also wondering about this. I was born and raised in NC, after graduating State (in-state tuition) moved to VA for 2 years and am now back for graduate school. My parents have lived here the whole time. I moved back in October, so I will barely miss the 12 month period you need for residency, but I filed 2006 NC taxes, registered to vote, etc. I plan to pay out of state tuition for the fall semester and then appeal to get in-state the rest of the time. Think it'll work? Anyone have any similar experience?

2/19/2007 11:40:39 PM

Quote :

"Clearly demonstrate a visible means of support substantiating a claim of financial independence as evidenced by cumulative year-to-date wage earning statements and or loan paperwork. If the individual has not been entirely self-supporting during the last 24 months, a completed affidavit may be required from the parent(s) or legal guardian;"

This is probably where most of you fell short.

The other thing is that your residentiary acts should be clustered immediately after moving to NC. If you come here as an out of state student and spend a year getting everything registered here, it looks funny. If you really moved somewhere, you would immediately register your vehicle, register to vote, get a drivers license, bank acct, etc. Also, doing these acts after applying to or starting college is a dead giveaway.

Quote :

"You must reside in North Carolina for a reason other than merely attending school. You must be financially independent. You must intend to reside in North Carolina permanently."

The bottom line is that most of the people bitching aren't really NC residents. You didn't move to NC, you went off to college in NC.

[Edited on February 20, 2007 at 12:01 AM. Reason : ?]

2/19/2007 11:52:07 PM

^I agree but its kinda funny how the review comittee gives graduate students on stipend in state tuition after one year (just to save the graduate students department money). But they don't give a fuck about denying it when there not paying.

2/20/2007 12:18:31 AM

It makes sense. This is about getting the best return for the NC taxpayers investment.

2/20/2007 12:20:02 AM

Well I do plan on staying here permanently... I just don't exactly know how to prove that. Within a week of moving a year ago I registered my vehicles and did all that. I work as an independent contractor doing software development so I can pretty much work from anywhere for now, but I plan to get a job in RTP once I get through school (right now the flexibility is good), but I'm not going to be able to buy a house and pay for graduate school to start out with, so how do you prove you intend to stay?

I just think it sucks that I paid NC taxes for 7 years (VA taxes for 2), and lived here 23 of my 25 years of life but wouldn't be considered in-state. What the hell are my parent's and my tax dollars for?

2/20/2007 9:20:50 AM

Sorry, there is no real way to show them you are going to stay here.

2/20/2007 9:29:13 AM

You won't be able to prove it. You'll do all the song and dance that they want you to and then they'll tell you you need to own a house, you can't be renting property.

2/20/2007 9:37:13 AM

synchrony7, it sounds like you are one of the few exceptions that end up getting the shaft because of all the manipulators trying to work over the system.

2/20/2007 10:00:56 AM

Glad I have only left the state twice ever.

2/20/2007 10:18:45 AM

^^^ not true, i got it while renting.
46% of homes in raleigh are rented (feel free to use that to help your cause if it comes up)
about 34% across NC... turning someone down because they rent in a city where half the homes are rented is absurd.
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/STTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=16000US3755000&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S2501&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_

Your real problem synchrony7 is living in VA the past 2 years. Technically they do not have to give it to you because you haven't lived here the past yr.

Also it will look better if you didn't move to VA solely for a job or location. Tell them you moved for a girl and will never make that horrible mistake again. Or something of that nature (if you moved for a job what is to stop you from doing so again?)

But keep in mind that the application and decision can apply to semester in which you're applying. So if you apply after October (at which point you'll have been here more than a yr) and are granted in-state residency for tuition purposes you will get a refund for that semester. On the application you can choose which semester you want it to count towards. But keep in mind it may help you to choose the next semester because that's one less semester they lose money and they may be more willing to go along with that.

[Edited on February 20, 2007 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2007 2:02:39 PM

Thanks for the advice all.

Quote :

"Your real problem synchrony7 is living in VA the past 2 years."

True. Apparently if you move for less than a year it doesn't affect your status (although since it takes a year to establish residency that seems like a no-brainer). I guess I could try to swing a house... I just wouldn't have much of down payment. I have a bunch of money saved up, but that is meant to pay for school.

I mean I really do intend to stay in area. My family and friends are here. I just wanted to see what it was like somewhere else (having lived here my whole life) and I tried it for 2 years and decided I liked it better here.

2/20/2007 4:50:34 PM

Quote :

"You must reside in North Carolina for a reason other than merely attending school."

2/20/2007 5:21:20 PM

Why does most everyone in this topic say that you need to be 23 for independent financial status when the FAFSA itself says you need to be 24? Am I missing something?

2/26/2007 3:38:07 PM

because they're right
http://www.fafsa.com/independent.htm

i was classified independent once i was 23

[Edited on February 26, 2007 at 4:07 PM. Reason : really fixed link this time]

2/26/2007 4:00:29 PM

i got instate tuition when i still lived in the dorms (im from sc). i hired a lawyer in chapel hill named Brad Lamb who specializes in getting people in-state tuition in NC. for $400, i saved a bunch of money.

...this was back in 2000-01 though, so things may have changed since then.

[Edited on February 26, 2007 at 4:05 PM. Reason : d]

2/26/2007 4:05:02 PM

I had no problem, but again...

Quote :

"...this was back in 2000-01 though, so things may have changed since then."

2/26/2007 5:10:41 PM

bttt

8/17/2009 9:33:29 PM

Quote :

"That's probably a red flag. Living with relatives doesn't exactly scream I'm here to stay."

That's the biggest key. Everyone I've talked to who has gotten in state tuition has said the biggest key is to show that you plan to stay around after you graduate.

8/17/2009 10:20:25 PM

I too did all those things. I registered and insured a car, voted, worked full time while going to school full time, paid state taxes, etc. I applied and was denied 4 times, and 4 times I appealed. They told me I couldn't prove I intended to live here. I too, called Brad Lamb. His professional advise was to try again, and if I got denied give a giant "FUCK YOU" on the way out of the appeals meeting. I didn't. He said that NC State was notorious for being hard asses about in-state tuition and they used every loophole.

Here it is over 3 years after graduation, and I live and work in NC. I definitively feel like giving a giant "FUCK YOU" every month when I pay my $700+ student loan bill.

8/17/2009 10:26:32 PM

did you go before the group of people? I seem to recall there being the application, then an appeal and then you could appeal that and you meet with 3 people and they decide. Maybe that's just what happened when I appealed it though. I got it the first time I met with the 3 people. My situation was pretty good though.

8/17/2009 10:53:53 PM

sounds like the state gov is actually doing its job correctly in this regard, for the most part

8/17/2009 10:59:01 PM

I know this has long since passed, but

Quote :

"For me, the loophole was that my parents pay my tuition and their primary residence is not in NC (even though they have a house in Wilmington), therefore I'm not eligible until I'm 23 and if I start paying everything on my own."

That isn't a loophole at all, your parents aren't paying taxes to the state of North Carolina, so why should you get the in-state rate? I suppose in a pure world, they'd compute how much economic impact you have had as a percentage of your parents and give you a discounted rate.

I don't understand, why if your folks were paying the bill as it were, you didn't just take loans in your own name to get the in-state tuition and then just have your folks give you the money to pay them off?

8/18/2009 8:34:19 AM

Anyone dealt with Roger Sims in the admissions office?

He's jerking around TheBullDoza on in-state tuition. Doza wants to come back to school for another BS, but lost his wallet in LA in 2008, and so he got an LA DL so he could fly back home.

Laura McClean is saying Roger Sims is the only person who can make residency decisions, which is fine...but he has EVERYTHING he needs to see 'doza is an established NC resident - down to years of tax returns, and all that jazz. I just don't know if she's aware of how Roger Sims is behaving.

Doza sent him an LA driving record, and then Sims says 'sorry, I need that to come to me directly from LA'. Then he says the NC DMV told him 'doza surrendered his NC DL to LA in Oct of 04...he lost his wallet in LA in Dec 09. So he tells 'doza he has to get a letter from the NC DMV saying that the NC DMV told Sims incorrect information. Btw, he has 'dozas NC driving record.

'doza has sent him every. single. thing. he has ever asked for...and then he asks for more. Anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this guy? Classes start tomorrow, and out-of-state tuition isn't an option.

Also, there's this:

Quote :

"7. When a legal resident ceases to be enrolled at an institution of higher education, and then abandons North Carolina domicile, he or she may reenroll at an institution of higher education as a resident for tuition purposes without meeting the 12-month durational requirement if the person reestablishes North Carolina domicile within 12 months of abandonment of North Carolina domicile and continuously maintains the reestablished North Carolina domicile at least through the beginning of the academic term(s) for which in-State tuition status is sought. (GS 116-143.1 (l)) ."

There's also this

[Edited on August 18, 2009 at 10:04 AM. Reason : jhg]

8/18/2009 9:54:27 AM

Quote :

"He's jerking around TheBullDoza on in-state tuition. Doza wants to come back to school for another BS, but lost his wallet in LA in 2008, and so he got an LA DL so he could fly back home."

What? Surely there had to be another way. How long did it take to get a DL in LA? Did he have a residence there? Why a DL if he could have just gotten a state ID? Something is missing there. It seems that you're saying: He lost his id, so to get home he had to get an LA driver's license... maybe my reading comprehension skills are slipping though.

Quote :

"Doza sent him an LA driving record, and then Sims says 'sorry, I need that to come to me directly from LA'. Then he says the NC DMV told him 'doza surrendered his NC DL to LA in Oct of 04...he lost his wallet in LA in Dec 09. So he tells 'doza he has to get a letter from the NC DMV saying that the NC DMV told Sims incorrect information. Btw, he has 'dozas NC driving record."

Did he end up getting it sent straight from LA? Did he ask him to see the document that the NC DMV sent Sims that said Oct of '04. Did he go to the DMV and get something from them saying the correct date?


Suggestion 1) Send the guy the information he is asking for, from the places he needs it from.

Suggestion 2) if he feels like he's done everything he should have to, and is really just being jerked around... consult a lawyer.

8/18/2009 7:05:23 PM

Everything got straightened out today, FWIW.

Quote :

"What? Surely there had to be another way. How long did it take to get a DL in LA? Did he have a residence there? Why a DL if he could have just gotten a state ID? Something is missing there. It seems that you're saying: He lost his id, so to get home he had to get an LA driver's license... maybe my reading comprehension skills are slipping though."

My thoughts exactly. 'Doza also wasn't aware that (for the fee of a huge hassle), one can fly without ID.

Suggestion one: done. All along.
Suggestion two: step 2a was going to be the guy's boss (because while she was all 'he's the only one who can make residency determinations!', I really feel she had absolutely no idea what Sims was up to). Step 2b was ...up to doza?

Quote :

"Did he ask him to see the document that the NC DMV sent Sims that said Oct of '04. Did he go to the DMV and get something from them saying the correct date? "

'Doza was out of town til today; for the latter Q, he did, and so everything is straightened out.

8/18/2009 7:33:56 PM

good, i'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it was odd to get a license in another state just to fly home.

glad it got worked out. So at the end of the day, is this Roger Sims an asshole that we should avoid? Or was he just waiting on some paperwork?

8/18/2009 8:10:06 PM

Roger Sims was the guy I was dealing with when I was trying to get in-state tuition and made this thread. The first time I met with him was shortly after he had taken over the position of "decider of in-state tuition status." He said, in so many words, "a lot of people have been given in-state tuition recently who should not have been. I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen anymore." He takes it as his job to make getting in-state tuition as difficult as possible. I suppose his job is to protect taxpayer money, but if there is ever any judgment call to make I'm sure his decision is always, "no." There are plenty of not very nice things I'm sure a lot of people would like to say about this man.

I never did get in-state tuition here and the most fucked up thing was that I spoke with the admissions office of the school in PA I transferred from during the ordeal, and they told me I almost certainly would not be granted in-state tuition if I were to return. I had no intention of returning, but I wanted to prove a point. So for a while there I was apparently not a citizen for tuition purposes of the two states in which I had most recently resided.

8/18/2009 8:10:18 PM

Quote :

"good, i'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it was odd to get a license in another state just to fly home. "

his parents lived there, so it wasn't that odd. he was visiting them at the time, although he never lived there himself.

8/18/2009 9:08:43 PM