http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72134-0.html?tw=rss.index

Better than current methods?

12/5/2006 8:06:41 AM

why don't we juts equip our soldiers with super soakers filled with boiling water?

12/5/2006 9:14:20 AM

^sweet and sour sauce

12/5/2006 9:37:56 AM

I think it would open up a whole can of worms with trying to keep it boiling and being accurate. I'd say this would work better

Also, its still better than being shot, IMO.

12/5/2006 9:51:05 AM

we better not get any shit for building nonlethal weapons when islamic fundamentalists are killing innocent civilians.

12/5/2006 10:41:13 AM

good luck with that, you can't make some people happy

12/5/2006 10:59:06 AM

Don't we already have a thread on this? These microwave weapons shouldn't be of any surprise; I remember discussing them in policy classes back when I was an undergrad over five years ago.

12/5/2006 11:16:37 AM

Although I will make a more reasonable comment. On one hand, I think this beats most of the current alternatives which usually involve riot police armed with batons and shields. However, like all non-lethal weapons, one needs to be careful about how these weapons would be used in a panic situation, and I'm sure that we're going to have at least one article on CNN and al-Jazeera about how the US Army is microwaving innocent children.

I think this weapon has some interesting battlefield applications though.

12/5/2006 11:24:10 AM

this weapon appears to be different than the microwave gun; its wavelength is shorter than microwaves.

12/5/2006 11:44:14 AM

wouldn't it be pretty easy for other combatants to wear some type of armor that defeats it?

12/5/2006 11:50:56 AM

So, are people immune to tear gas over there or what?

12/5/2006 11:53:02 AM

My only two worries, 1) Have they done testing on beam contact with your eye balls? 2) Will it ruin your man balls?

12/5/2006 12:12:06 PM

^^^ They said that unless you completely cover yourself in foil, with no gaps at all, you will get the "goodbye effect".

12/5/2006 12:20:39 PM

This sounds like something from a comic book

12/5/2006 12:41:42 PM

Quote :

"So, are people immune to tear gas over there or what? "

No, its just really hard to teargas specific people in a crowd.

12/5/2006 12:42:31 PM

Quote :

"They said that unless you completely cover yourself in foil, with no gaps at all, you will get the "goodbye effect"."

So salisburyboy was right all along?

12/5/2006 1:04:04 PM

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_XM8,,00.html

this might replace the M-16 as the standard rifle of US military

12/5/2006 1:05:10 PM

Couple of thoughts:

What happens the first time it's used in a situation where someone is physically incapable of escape? It would look pretty bad if we kill some poor handicapped guy who can't get out of the way. The article talks about reaching pain threshholds within 3-5 seconds, but fails to mention what happens if you're exposed for longer than that anyway.

I also worry about the slippery slope in using devices like this that are nonlethal and don't have any lasting effects or marks betraying its use. Some of these war games situations they describe, in particular the "separating the tourists from the terrorists," could cross the line on civilian use in my opinion. The argument is that it's for the civilians' own good to be forced out of the area, but it's still a tricky line to define about what right law enforcement has to inflict pain on an innocent population to achieve that goal, regardless of lasting effects. It might not do any real damage, but damn if it doesn't hurt like fuck RIGHT NOW--that's a lot of potential for abuse.

12/5/2006 1:43:32 PM

This is a good development -- I just hope that the fact that it's nonlethal won't lessen the standards for use.

12/5/2006 1:45:32 PM

This is a good development -- I just hope they don't use it on me in the library

12/5/2006 1:55:57 PM

^ HAHAHA

12/5/2006 1:57:40 PM

Quote :

"This is a good development -- I just hope that the fact that it's nonlethal won't lessen the standards for use."

isn't that the whole point?

12/5/2006 2:13:12 PM

not to mention what good is it if they "burn" the bad guys, only to have them come back and fight tomorrow

12/5/2006 2:23:17 PM

I don't mean lessen the standards from what's okay for killing, I just meant that I hope it doesn't become trivial.

"Eh whatever let's just use the super pain gun."

"Wait that was the wrong crowd? Oh whatever they'll live."

12/5/2006 2:23:30 PM

Quote :

"wouldn't it be pretty easy for other combatants to wear some type of armor that defeats it?"

Maybe a professional army that had a ton of money at its disposal, but with the types of folks we're fighting these days, I think you wouldn't have to worry about this issue.

Outside of crowd control, I can see this as a perimeter tool, kinda like barbed wire. Sure, you aren't going to stop a determined foe in the end, but it is one obstacle they'd have to navigate.

Quote :

"not to mention what good is it if they "burn" the bad guys, only to have them come back and fight tomorrow"

Perhaps, but there are many situations where you don't want to kill every single person you see. That didn't work for Tsar Nicholas II when he had protestors on his front door.

12/5/2006 2:30:01 PM

I think this is a good, but meaningless in the short term, development.

We already out-tech and out-spend the Iraqis by MASSIVE margins, but it hasn't helped with finding success in Iraq.

I don't see how microwaving potential innocents will be viewed as too much "nicer" than having them killed accidentally as collateral damage. The insurgents and Iraqis are going to get pissed either way.

And despite the claims that this is hard to block, the terrorists we will be using this on will find a way, I bet. Just like they were smart enough to get pass the initial IED jamming techniques we were using.

12/5/2006 2:41:31 PM

yeah, i was just wondering

I'm all for non lethal weapons being used when it is appropriate to use them

12/5/2006 2:45:59 PM

moron, at the very least anything they use to block this can also be used against them by my new patented ACME(c) Magnet Gun.

Now we can use them in conjunction to scoop up the terrorists.

12/5/2006 3:03:47 PM

Quote :

"This is a good development -- I just hope that the fact that it's nonlethal won't lessen the standards for use."

Yea, but there is no hope of that. Just look at Police using tasers when they would have never considered lethal force. Now they use them anytime somebody resists. 5 years from now and you'll get tazed proactively so that you can't resist.

12/5/2006 3:14:07 PM

so happiness really is a warm gun?

12/5/2006 3:25:17 PM

i like that they are ok'ing it for use in iraq instead of doing more expensive trials to make sure it is safe to use on american citizens


ps if they do start using it here and i am ever in a riot i am bringing bags of popcorn

[Edited on December 5, 2006 at 5:54 PM. Reason : .]

12/5/2006 5:52:57 PM

you people can't read. they're not microwaves.

12/5/2006 5:57:40 PM

theyre close enough, or can you not read

12/5/2006 6:02:50 PM

UHHHH

microwaves -- 94 GHz (= 3 mm wavelength) compared to 2.45 GHz (= 12 cm wavelength)

That is nowhere near 'close'

12/5/2006 6:07:01 PM

jesus christ people i was making a joke, the part about popcorn should have made that obvious

12/5/2006 6:09:45 PM

a couple of other people in this thread didn't catch that it's not microwaves.

12/5/2006 6:14:34 PM

Quote :

"http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_XM8,,00.html this might replace the M-16 as the standard rifle of US military"

I thought the US military was giving up on the XM-8. I had heard there were some problems with it, although I can no longer remember what those specific problems were anymore.

As for the microwave weapon, it almost sounds like something out of Star Trek. But I agree that long-term exposure and exposure to eyes should be further studied.

12/5/2006 7:08:09 PM

Quote :

"microwaves -- 94 GHz (= 3 mm wavelength) compared to 2.45 GHz (= 12 cm wavelength)"

so this thing will interfere with my wireless router?

THOSE MONSTERS

[Edited on December 5, 2006 at 8:25 PM. Reason : ]

12/5/2006 8:25:20 PM

Quote :

"I thought the US military was giving up on the XM-8. I had heard there were some problems with it, although I can no longer remember what those specific problems were anymore."

I know that they decided to scrap the idea of giving every soldier the 20mm air burst launcher, but I haven't heard anything about the XM-8, good or bad, in a long time.

12/5/2006 8:37:07 PM

Cool, but not quite as cool as this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7077

Anyone know how the two weapons are related?

12/5/2006 9:27:14 PM

^^I know wiki isn't the most reliable source to use, but according to it,

Quote :

"Although there were high hopes that the XM8 would become the Army's new standard infantry rifle, the project was put on hold in mid 2005, and was formally cancelled on October 31, 2005."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM8

[Edited on December 5, 2006 at 10:19 PM. Reason : blah]

12/5/2006 10:19:16 PM

yes it was suspended then. i also hope they just scrap that stupid AR 308 DMR weapon they have been pushing for and just go back to the M14 like 2nd ID did with the Crazy Horse. its 15,000 dollars per DMR or 3,000 or less for a Crazy Horse m14. and the m14 performs better in the desert.

[Edited on December 5, 2006 at 10:52 PM. Reason : s]

12/5/2006 10:50:15 PM

i can see it is from 1998, but still, quite telling about the humane democratic country of israel:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,16272-0.html

Quote :

"Israel's Ethnic Weapon? By Wired News Report null| Also by this reporter 12:30 PM Nov, 16, 1998 Israel is reportedly developing a biological weapon that would harm Arabs while leaving Jews unaffected, according to a report in London's Sunday Times. The report, citing Israeli military and western intelligence sources, says that scientists are trying to identify distinctive genes carried by Arabs to create a genetically modified bacterium or virus. The "ethno-bomb" is reportedly Israel's response to the threat that Iraq may be just weeks away from completing its own biological weapons. The "ethno-bomb" program is based at Israel's Nes Tziyona research facility. Scientists are trying to use viruses and bacteria to alter DNA inside living cells and attack only those cells bearing Arabic genes. The task is very complex because both Arabs and Jews are Semitic peoples. But according to the report, the Israelis have succeeded in isolating particular characteristics of certain Arabs, "particularly the Iraqi people." Dedi Zucker, a member of the Israeli parliament, denounced the research in the Sunday Times. "Morally, based on our history, and our tradition and our experience, such a weapon is monstrous and should be denied." Last month, Foreign Report claimed that Israel was following in the ignominious footsteps of apartheid-era research, in their supposed efforts to develop an "ethnic bullet." "

12/6/2006 7:01:15 AM

Damn that's cold. I would totally be upset by that weapon, but it would be pretty impressive if they really could get something like that working.

12/6/2006 8:03:06 AM

Quote :

"Cool, but not quite as cool as this: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7077 Anyone know how the two weapons are related?"

That's just twisted, but I'm not surprised that someone's working on it.

Personally, I'm holding out for the various LASER weapons that the military is working on. Already have one mounted on a 747.
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/abl/index.html


Supposedly, someone's working on a smaller one that can be mounted in a C-130 or on the back of a Humvee for tactical purposes.
http://www.eurekalert.org/features/doe/2002-04/dlnl-bff053102.php

[Edited on December 6, 2006 at 9:27 AM. Reason : Fixed Links]

12/6/2006 9:26:57 AM

Quote :

"No, its just really hard to teargas specific people in a crowd."

Oh, I thought it was a crowd control device.

12/6/2006 11:17:58 AM

Quote :

"the project was put on hold in mid 2005, and was formally cancelled on October 31, 2005."

Does anyone know why? I heard that it was better than any of the M16 variants.

12/6/2006 4:20:04 PM

yeah apparently that article I had posted was a couple years old

still seems like a slick weapon...i wonder if the politics of replacing the standard issue weapon were too much

12/6/2006 4:29:37 PM