http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06092512.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

I'd post the text, but there's a table that I don't feel like niggling with to get the formatting right.

The gist of it is

"Elite colleges don't make successful students -- successful students apply to elite colleges. Smart kids tend to choose elite schools. But if kids are already smart, whether they choose to "go Ivy" or not makes no difference to their success later in life."

(except the amount of money you or your parents pay for that diploma, assuming there's no scholarship)

9/25/2006 2:31:55 PM

Quote :

" The gist of it is one dudes opinion."

9/25/2006 2:45:38 PM

There's a significant amount of literature on this done in the economics world. I don't have access to the SSCI anymore, but you do. Go look for it.

9/25/2006 2:47:51 PM

along the same lines...I got an NC State MBA:

i am in my dream job, have traveled 4 continents, and have ten fold the ROI compared to that of my friends at the other neighborhood schools (including ones from the dark blue 500 lb gorilla school)...and if the year end deal bonus is righteous, the raw figure will be up there too.

9/25/2006 2:58:37 PM

And then you have the REALLY REALLY REALLY successful kids...

"REALLY REALLY REALLY smart kids tend not to go to college at all, they just go straight into the work force"

- Only 16% of Forbes Top 400 Richest in America actually have M.B.A's
- Lebron James didn't even enroll in college (Cavaliers)
- Bill Gates is a drop out (Microsoft)
- Michael Dell is a drop out (Dell Computers)
- The list goes on...

9/25/2006 3:05:24 PM

i wouldnt equate skill (bball) with business success

9/25/2006 3:07:04 PM

I would equate $80 million/year as business success

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 3:14 PM. Reason : net worth probably well above that]

9/25/2006 3:10:57 PM

^^^ a few exceptional dropouts doesn't make up for however many thousands of worthless dropouts

iow, don't encourage the notion that not having an education is ok. it's not ok, unless you're way smart

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 3:42 PM. Reason : like me]

9/25/2006 3:40:48 PM

Of course, facts prove that if you drop out of school you're more likely to suck at life (or life is more likely to suck at you). I was just pointing out another side to the argument.

Formal education is key to a growing and prosperous society.

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 3:51 PM. Reason : edumakacion]

9/25/2006 3:49:42 PM

Quote :

" - Only 16% of Forbes Top 400 Richest in America actually have M.B.A's"

that only pertains to MBA's.... which, no offense biz folk is pretty much a solid check to see if you will or will not fuck up big.... even then a lot of you do...

how many on that forbes list don't have degrees at all? 10%? 5%

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 3:52 PM. Reason : 3]

9/25/2006 3:51:33 PM

^^^ i was about to make the same point.
It does everybody a disservice to continuously cite Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, "The Steves" from Apple and the like as examples of what you can accomplish without a college education. Plain and simple, those few people are flat out geniuses - they're simply in a league of their own as far as technical smarts and business accumen.

For every Gates or Dell, there are probably 10,000 smart-assed kids who have dropped out of college with a brilliant (or not) idea who either 1) failed miserably and went bankrupt, 2) went back to college, or 3) was mildly successful.

I'm not even going to touch the athletic argument. Anyone who thinks that they have a shot at dropping out of or skipping college completely to go get paid millions of dollars playing ball is even more delusional than the wanna-be-Gates's of the world.

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 3:51 PM. Reason : .]

9/25/2006 3:51:43 PM

^ correct, there has been what, one, person to really successfully do that?

9/25/2006 3:53:21 PM

Quote :

""Elite colleges don't make successful students -- successful students apply to elite colleges. Smart kids tend to choose elite schools. But if kids are already smart, whether they choose to "go Ivy" or not makes no difference to their success later in life." "

from my work experience, i agree. i work with many people from elite schools.... doing the same if not more challenging work, making the same if not more money, and probably getting noticed more (since I'm very active in a bunch of different things at work).

the only big difference is that i don't have college debt, while they do.

9/25/2006 3:55:36 PM

Quote :

"I would equate $80 million/year as business success "

yeah, but he didnt get there with his brain

he can ball

that was the point i am making

9/25/2006 3:59:07 PM

[Intro]
School spirit motherfuckers

[Chorus]
Alpha, step. Omega, step
Kappa, step. Sigma, step
Gangstas walk, pimps gon' talk
Oooh hecky naw that boy is raw
AKA, step. Delta, step
S G Rho, step. Zeta, step
Gangstas walk, pimps gon' talk
Oooh hecky naw that boy is raw

[Verse 1]
I'ma get on this TV, momma
I'ma, I'ma break shit down
I'ma make sure these light skinned niggaz
Never ever never come back in style
Told 'em I finished school, and I started my own business
They say, 'Oh you graduated?'
No, I decided I was finished
Chasin' y'all dreams and what you've got planned
Now I spit it so hot you got tanned
Back to school and I hate it there, I hate it there
Everything I want I gotta wait a year, I wait a year
This nigga graduated at the top of my class..
I went to Cheesecake, he was a motherfucking waiter there

[Chorus]

[Verse 2]
I got a Jones like Norah for your sorror'
Bring more of them girls I've seen in the Aurora
Tammy, Becky, and Laura, or'a Shirley
I'm tryin' to hit it early, like I'm in a hurry
See, that's how dude became the young pootie tang tippy tow
Rocafella chain, yeah that's my rapper style
Rosary piece, yeah that's my Catholic style
Red and white One's, yeah that's my Kappa style
And I ain't even pledge
Crack my head on the steering wheel and I ain't even dead
If I could go through all that and still be breathing
Bitch bend over, I'm here for a reason

[Chorus]

[Outro]
I feel a woo coming on, cuz. I feel a woo coming on, cuz
WOO
There it was
I feel some woos coming on, cuz. A couple woos coming on, cuz
WOO, WOO
There they was
I feel a woo coming on, cuz. I feel a woo coming on, cuz
WOO
There it was
A couple woos coming on, cuz. A couple woos coming on, cuz
WOO, WOO
There they was

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 4:00 PM. Reason : x]

9/25/2006 4:00:33 PM

http://papers.nber.org/papers/W7322

Somebody find a link to the full study and post it. Here's the title/some misc. information. Study was first published in 2002 ... original link posted seems to be something related to retirement ... and using this as a crutch of some sort

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 4:14 PM. Reason : .]

9/25/2006 4:14:10 PM

Quote :

"yeah, but he didnt get there with his brain he can ball that was the point i am making "

My point is that if you know how to use your "skill" (whether mentally or physically)... then can be very successful, financially. But, that's not the point of this thread, so I rest my case

9/25/2006 4:15:37 PM

Quote :

"Forbes Top 400 Richest in America"

What percentage are in entertainment? (actors, singers, athletes)
What percentage have family money? (Sam Walton's kids, etc.)

9/25/2006 4:21:27 PM

^^^Not that that means that paper sucks, but it was co-authored by Alan Krueger. While he is employed in a very prestigious institution, his econometrics tend to blow with a capital B.

His book with Card on Minimum Wage has been destroyed in every serious economic circle this side of Bangladesh. Basically he did a phone study of one industry in one state (New Jersey) and made broad, sweeping generalizations without actually even having a comparable control sample.

Shit was heinous. I have a paper around here somewhere I wrote several years back on how stupid that study was.

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 4:25 PM. Reason : that paper, not the article]

9/25/2006 4:23:59 PM

Quote :

"original link posted seems to be something related to retirement ... and using this as a crutch of some sort"

yeah, it was about how, from an investment perspective, paying a premium for a 'name' school is a stupid idea.

Quote :

"What percentage are in entertainment? (actors, singers, athletes) 0, unless you count #50 David Geffen, #94 Steven Spielberg #70 George Lucas, who cashed in from the business side of entertainment What percentage have family money? (Sam Walton's kids, etc.)"

about a dozen or so out of 400.

9/25/2006 6:42:13 PM

The difference between elite private schools and public colleges is, in order to get into an elite private school as a dumb shit, you just need a rich daddy that went there before you.

It makes me more sick that the elite schools let in dipshits, because it's an issue of corruption and not standards. It's a sham.

9/25/2006 6:47:48 PM

While that's true, that doesn't hold any less true for public institutions.

You think NCSU would deny admission to anyone in the Murphy, Stroud, or Vaughn family?

9/25/2006 7:02:09 PM

I suppose that's true -- it's all rather depressing. There's always somebody more deserving of the spot who gets fucked by that kind of favoritism. It's bullshit.

9/25/2006 7:03:32 PM

I've never been super impressed with elite colleges.

It's my understanding that grade inflation is the worst at those schools.

One thing that I envy about private colleges (not necessarily elite) is their campuses.

I visit a friend about twice a month who lives in an apartment in Winston and goes to WFU.

Invariably, we visit campus, and hot damn, it's fucking beautiful!

It's probably not that nice, but compared to NCSU, it is overwhelming.

(I also envy the faculty they have at some of those schools.)

[Edited on September 25, 2006 at 7:27 PM. Reason : Didn't read the thread or the article. LOL.]

9/25/2006 7:25:16 PM