You know, I'm not a socialogist or a quantitative psychologist, but kids bringing fucking heavy machinery to school has gone up like 200% since last year. Yeah, I know kids probably bring guns and knives to school everyday for protection, you'd say, I'd agree. But, now, there're kids coming out with serious issues, I'm talking about kids who come to school, not with defense of the team player in mind, but offense against the enemy team. These kids're coming out to kill others, irregardless, except that they attend their own school.

This has never happened at such a rate when I was a young. I mean, there was the Charles on the belltower, then Columbine many decades after the incident, and a few years after that some Indian kid blows others away screaming "white power". Just a few days ago another event has been triggerd some guy walks into a Montreal college and opens fire on his peers. The time between these event's is dropping consequently.

And, just today http://www.wluk.com/common/article.shtml?article_id=1158333499026138

Yes, two kids in wisconsin, were building napalm in their basement and planning on setting the school's exits on fire shooting anyone who wanted to escape the building. It's like the scene in saving private ryan when they set the bunkers on fire, and shot anyone who tried to escape and not burn to death.

This is some fucking crazy nutty shit, I mean it's military genius, but what the hell is wrong with people. Whys our general culture shitting itself?

9/16/2006 1:04:52 AM

If only we knew...

culturetastic

9/16/2006 1:05:46 AM

Because kids in this society probably aren't being raised properly nowadays so they become disillusioned and do something stupid. My guess is the reason they get away with some types of stupid to the degree of murder (or mass murder) is because the parents give the kids too many resources.

Like how did those columbine kids get all those damn guns...

9/16/2006 1:06:53 AM

Two words: "social alienation"

Something's broken all right. Public schools these days consist of almost nothing but trampling all over anyone who would be different, intelligent, curious, whatever.

^
Straw purchases, among other things.

[Edited on September 16, 2006 at 1:07 AM. Reason : .]

9/16/2006 1:07:28 AM

bad people

bad education systems

and even worse parents and role models

9/16/2006 1:35:35 AM

one thing for sure, i see anyone in my class without a unform with anything resembling a gun, im knockin their ass right out no questions asked

9/16/2006 2:15:54 AM

Quote :

"Sturtz had also just lost an Internet relationship with a girl, Sterr said. "

the whole incident is clearly the Internet's fault. I bet the kid also played Grand Theft Auto

9/16/2006 3:52:05 AM

Betw. socialogist and irregardless, I couldn't tell if this was a serious thread....

9/16/2006 6:27:52 AM

it's the (lack of) parenting

9/16/2006 6:32:34 AM

Quote :

"irregardless"

You were going strong until that point

Quote :

"Whys our general culture shitting itself?"

When things like this happen with adults, it is shown on the evening news, talked about for a week, forgotten about the following year, and eventually it becomes a statistic. When it happens with teenagers/high schools, it is considered a tragedy, talked about for a year, forgotten, and eventually it becomes a statistic.

On a slightly serious comment ... you commit somebody to four years of social hell, where they are taunted by their peers and treated like a prisoner via school administrators, and they aren't shown a light at the end of the tunnel ... things can happen. Doesn't explain all cases (Montreal in particular), nor is it a valid fact, but just the way I remember things being. If I was a school administrator, I could have pointed out who in my senior class was likely to do something stupid.

[Edited on September 16, 2006 at 7:34 AM. Reason : .]

9/16/2006 7:33:15 AM

I've found this to be the pattern:

The one's that bring weapons to school and either use them after school or don't use them at all tend to be inner city kids from the ghetto.

The one's that bring an entire arsonal to school and kill everyone and then either kill themselves or get shot tend to be socially alienated sububanites.

This is kinda reflected in non-school killings as well. Inner city kids are more likely to kill one or two people either because of some argument or perhaps as part of a robbery.

But all the serial killers/madmen are the weirdo neighbors in the suburbs that no one talks to.

9/16/2006 7:45:01 AM

Quote :

"You know, I'm not a socialogist or a quantitative psychologist, but kids bringing fucking heavy machinery to school has gone up like 200% since last year. "

I'm pretty sure the actual incident rate has stayed constant or gone down over the last few years

Quote :

"I mean, there was the Charles on the belltower, then Columbine many decades after the incident, and a few years after that some Indian kid blows others away screaming "white power". Just a few days ago another event has been triggerd some guy walks into a Montreal college and opens fire on his peers. The time between these event's is dropping consequently."

You're missing quite a few events in there. There were many other shootings within months of columbine:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

9/16/2006 11:13:26 AM

Quote :

"Stiletto: Two words: "social alienation" Something's broken all right. Public schools these days consist of almost nothing but trampling all over anyone who would be different, intelligent, curious, whatever."

Quote :

"Perlith: On a slightly serious comment ... you commit somebody to four years of social hell, where they are taunted by their peers and treated like a prisoner via school administrators, and they aren't shown a light at the end of the tunnel ... things can happen."

Bullshit. Public school has always been that way, but people rarely got shot over it back in the day. If anything, some schools have improved in that respect, offering more outlets.

So if you wanna go with "social alienation," here are the things that have changed with regards to that alienation: increased television viewing (where they escape), the internet (another escape), increased advertising ("No, you should wanna look like THIS!"), increased school/class size, and decreased active parenting.

[Edited on September 16, 2006 at 12:17 PM. Reason : sss]

9/16/2006 12:12:29 PM

Quote :

"decreased active parenting"

DING DING

9/16/2006 1:41:45 PM

They had this shit when I was in high school.

The only difference is now most of these stupid fuckers are posting their plans on myspace so they are easier to catch beforehand.

9/16/2006 1:59:16 PM

Quote :

"bad people bad education systems and even worse parents and role models"

blame everything but the guns. everyone is as fucked up as the always were, now we simply have the tools (thanks to gun-nuts) to kill lots of people.


when bombs kill millions of people, is it bad parenting? did bin laden have bad parenting, or is technology not the most responsible agent for increase in deaths? i guess in the olden days, people just didnt hate as much and there were fewer wars.

[Edited on September 16, 2006 at 4:51 PM. Reason : 223]

9/16/2006 4:49:40 PM

^ I don't think its the guns. people just don't have a healthy respect for life and death.

9/16/2006 4:57:07 PM

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure the actual incident rate has stayed constant or gone down over the last few years"

Did you write your post as a joke?

9/17/2006 12:10:23 AM

guns? i could get one in a heartbeat.

- i never use them, and won't against innocent civilians.

video games? grew up on Goldeneye, Halo, etc etc etc

- never shot, stabbed, or physically, truly fought with a human being since i was old enough to know better and my PARENTS were a big reason i knew better.

social alienation? until i got into football and wrestling, i was the epitomy of unpopular

- never cut myself or thought about blowing up the school or unloading on everybody with an ak47

it's people. the individuals and how they are raised. one of you could tell me you hated my guts every last day that i'm on this planet earth and i wouldn't kill anyone.

9/17/2006 12:17:18 AM

At least they seem to be catching most of these before the whack-job kids start killing people.

9/17/2006 12:19:50 AM

Well, the liberal media has blamed school shootings on the "Southern gun culture." Oh, that was until shootings started happening in other places, too--now even in Canada, a country with strict gun control.

It's not time for more gun control, it's time for individuals to take responsibility for their own actions and be held accountable for ill-intentioned actions.

http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/mediawatch/1998/mw19980406p1.html

http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/reports/98-4NRwint98/Schwartz_Making_Sense.html

9/17/2006 5:37:24 AM

Quote :

"Did you write your post as a joke?"

No, but given the obvious inaccuracies of your first post it's not suprising you wouldn't have done the research.

http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/shooting/shootings.html

9/17/2006 2:31:59 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/415421.html

9/17/2006 2:36:20 PM

Eh, Mark Lepine did better back in '89.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/marc_lepine/index.html

9/17/2006 2:46:43 PM

You're not an English major either.

Quote :

"Well, the liberal media has blamed school shootings on the "Southern gun culture.""

WTF...In the past 20 years have there even been shootings in the south? All the ones I've heard of have occured up north. It's not the guns. My brother and I were both angsty video game playing teens and our dad kept a veritable arsenal all over our house and we never even had an urge to try them out.

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 7:56 PM. Reason : merf]

9/17/2006 7:47:50 PM

kids stop playing outside and trying to socialize

spend hours inside playing first person shooters and listening to death metal

9/17/2006 8:30:52 PM

1337 needs to go to school more.

I'm at a misunderstanding why someone would counterpost frequencies with shootings in the 90's when, I just indicated the amount of shootings has increased. Are you trying to do a nominal average, is the 90s your yearly range set. I don't wanna break it to you too fast but were in the year 2006.

9/17/2006 8:42:40 PM

Clearly you have no clue how to combine sources. I've provided two in this thread, let's combine some data:

From the second source, school shootings were on a decline up to the end of the compiled studies in 1997, so we can use 1997 as our base line for the question as to whether there is a serious increase or not. From the first source we find

4 events in the US in 1997
5 in 1998
4 in 1999
4 in 2000
6 in 2001
1 in 2002
3 in 2003
1 in 2004
and last but not least
2 in 2005

so from the 1997 baseline of 4 events up until last year we saw 2 years above that baseline, and 4 years below the base line.

Furthermore, if you would like to ignore the 90's entirely (as you seem rather focused on the fact that we are now in 2006), it looks even better as we see a slight increase at the very begining of the 2000's and then a marked decline over the last 3 years.

Therefore I stand by my original statement:

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure the actual incident rate has stayed constant or gone down over the last few years"

[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 9:38 PM. Reason : edit]

9/17/2006 9:34:19 PM

Baselines, baselines, baselines.

I have no idea what you're going at, nor do I think you understand the article you're linking to.

http://www.cjcj.org/

Man, this shit's based in san fran.



[Edited on September 17, 2006 at 10:25 PM. Reason : Shoot this guy = increase average]

9/17/2006 10:18:16 PM

These people want their newscycle of glory, and the press keeps giving it to them. If the press didn't give them so much coverage, but instead refused to give them the "glory" they wanted, there would not be so many of them. If someone wants to die in "glory", then deny the chance for "glory" and they will be much less likely to commit such a foul and heinous act.

9/17/2006 11:16:23 PM

^^ Are you seriously that fucking dense? Let me try and explain it to you again perhaps in smaller words:

The second article I linked demonstrates that nationwide (regardless of if they're based in san fran, the study was nation wide) school violence was declining in the 90's up to 1997. Read the whole thing, including part II.

Using this, we can use the data from the first link to answer the question of whether the incident rate has gone up or down over the last few years. Since we know that until 1997 it was declining, 1997 is a good point at which to start looking at the last few years. Since 1997 there have only been 2 year when the number of incidents was greater than it was in 1997.

If you want to look at the actual frequency, from 1997-1999 there was one shooting every 2.8 months

from 2000 - 2002 every 3.3 months

and from 2003-2005 every 6 months

Again I stant by my original statment:

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure the actual incident rate has stayed constant or gone down over the last few years"

9/18/2006 9:03:05 AM

try working in the public school system.
after the incident in Orange County everything was tense around here.
we have lockdown plans, emergency plans, etc... etc... supposed to have a drill soon.

its a combination of many factors. every child is different.
yes there has been a dramatic decrease in the quality of parenting since we were all kids.
theres been a decrease in students who are involved in clubs,organizations, extra-curricular activites, sports etc.. also stemming back to parents not signing their kids up for activities at an early age and giving them an interest. so now theres tons of students who leave school at 2:30 and go home unsupervised for hours before Mom and Dad get home.

Technology has furthur seperated families. everyone is in a different room on a computer, watching a seperate tv, talking on their cell phone, etc... theres no unity anymore in most homes.

parental involvement in their childs education and school is pathetic.

basically parents are clueless, dont care, or just oblivious to what their own children are doing.

add that to the fact that kids these days are more resourceful to finding what they want. (once again thanks to the internet). its easier to find recipes for bombs online, find weapons, find others who think the same sadistic thoughts.
plus the media blows up all these school shooting incidents and the publicity just feeds into the kids ideas. they want the attention and as a teenager -they cant begin to understand the consequences of their actions. they're so selfish and caught up in their own evil "hate the rest of the world cuz no one understands me" world (welcome to being a teenager).. they cant think about how their actions will hurt others.


wtf has happened to our society.

9/18/2006 9:36:14 AM

Quote :

"blame everything but the guns. everyone is as fucked up as the always were, now we simply have the tools (thanks to gun-nuts) to kill lots of people. when bombs kill millions of people, is it bad parenting? did bin laden have bad parenting, or is technology not the most responsible agent for increase in deaths? i guess in the olden days, people just didnt hate as much and there were fewer wars."

you're the biggest fucking idiot toolbag troll on this site

but anyways, the "tools" aka, guns have been around for a long long time now, people never carried their muskets to school to kill people. When I was in HS almost everyone I hung out with kept a gun (rifle or shotgun) in their car or truck and none of us ever pulled one out or threatened to pull one out.

people have been killing people since the beginning of the human race

bombs do not = guns, andusually when bombs are used it is for warmaking or terrorist acts

so yeah.. hold fuckups accountable for their stupid irrational actions

and yeah, I blame parents and role models also

goddamn, you people can't hold anyone fucking accountable for their decisions

good luck in the real world kid

[Edited on September 18, 2006 at 10:49 AM. Reason : loser]

9/18/2006 10:34:30 AM

ill be damned if my kid is gonna have their own tv.... I didn't

9/18/2006 10:45:53 AM

maybe if they paid teachers better they'd retain better ones.
a great teacher can be a wonderful role model and can make a difference and/or make up where the parent lacks.

9/18/2006 10:52:08 AM

yeah, true

I wish teachers, students, and parents all performed better

and to be honest, I want my kid in a private school

I went to a public school and did ok, but I wouldn't do it again if I had my choice

9/18/2006 10:54:02 AM

Teachers don't have shit to do with the changes. Teachers sucked balls way back when, but again, it was very rare for somebody to get shot over it.

Quote :

"These people want their newscycle of glory, and the press keeps giving it to them. If the press didn't give them so much coverage, but instead refused to give them the "glory" they wanted, there would not be so many of them. If someone wants to die in "glory", then deny the chance for "glory" and they will be much less likely to commit such a foul and heinous act."

This is a pretty lame argument that barely explains why the school shootings are happening now and not so much in the past. However, you're right in that there has been a move towards fame. Reality television, MTV, the internet and things like that offer regular joes a chance at fame. As a result, more and more young people are saying "I wanna be famous," instead of "I wanna be a singer, actress, model, etc..." All they know is that they wanna be famous--and the sick part of the whole bit is that some of them actually think it's a reasonable goal.

9/18/2006 11:09:25 AM

9/18/2006 12:09:12 PM

it's because kids these days are not fully developed in areas of socialization. Kids at one time were encouraged to make up games and play outside with friends. now kids play with pre-molded plastic toys and video games... between TV shows.

kids need to play outside with the neighborhood children and develop social skills like they once did.

9/18/2006 12:33:30 PM

blame myspace.

[Edited on September 18, 2006 at 12:43 PM. Reason : ha]

9/18/2006 12:41:46 PM

1337, you're right, I agree, that we both don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, you skewing their data shows the shootings increasing in the 90's and 2000's

In other news posting random data on tww proves a .

9/18/2006 3:26:47 PM

To Lutra: What the fuck are you talking about? First, I happen to be pursuing a concentration in English and postsecondary education at the graduate level. I'll blow your little ass out of the water any day of the week on any English-related matter.

What was your objection to my quotation? Do you want me to take the red pen to your little trinket of a post? I can assure that it will look to be bleeding.

Second, I was SUPPORTING the rights of gun owners, you twit. Maybe you should try actually reading a post before you spasm into fits of protest--or you could try upping the meds.

9/19/2006 2:36:21 PM

Wow, another school shooting, woopty do.

School shootings are going down

9/28/2006 10:42:41 PM

This was done by a 50+ year old guy though wasn't it?

Held hostage six girls, shot one of them, shot himself.

This one doesn't deal with kids, but it still raises the issue of security at school.

Is there any?

9/28/2006 10:45:06 PM

Obviously it's the video games. Maybe even the Internet. Have you tried Canada, yet? Wait, can't go there. They've got schools and kids and parents and institutions to blame as well.

Well fuck. I guess it was the Devil's fault. I'd book Osama Bin Laden for you guys, but I think he's busy with a Fall pic.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 10:54 PM. Reason : ...]

9/28/2006 10:46:28 PM

i blame the return of new wave music

9/28/2006 10:57:09 PM

No, fuck that. Your answer couldn't be true because Webster told me so.

9/28/2006 10:59:44 PM

ANOTHER school shooting just happened this morning in Wisconsin.

9/29/2006 11:26:37 AM

9/29/2006 12:13:45 PM

JUST GIVE THEM A PILL, THEY'LL SNAP OUT OF IT. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR CHILD A PILL CAN'T CURE.

9/29/2006 12:45:17 PM