http://www.wral.com/news/9512341/detail.html

Quote :

"The state Board of Education approved a framework for graduation standards in October 2004 and agreed last year that the standards would include demonstrating proficiency on five end-of course tests: Algebra 1, biology, English 1, civics and economics and U.S. history."

Yea, sounds like a great standard for middle school students.

7/13/2006 2:37:47 PM

They have the SOL's in VA. Everyone since The Class of 04?!?! has to pass em.

7/13/2006 2:40:37 PM

Is this what NCLB is?

7/13/2006 2:40:58 PM

thank god I missed the writing part they have now added to the SAT

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 3:04 PM. Reason : >.<]

7/13/2006 3:04:22 PM

^Ditto, i hear that's a bitch.

7/13/2006 3:09:16 PM

^^^ no, not exactly.

not positive, but this is probably part of the North Carolina ABC's accountability program. That program, was started in '97, before NCLB was passed. However, it is intertwined with NCLB. I can explain that more if you want.

http://abcs.ncpublicschools.org/abcs/

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 3:28 PM. Reason : wrong info]

7/13/2006 3:15:08 PM

Quote :

"Yea, sounds like a great standard for middle school students."

Out of those 5 classes, I placed out of 1, took 3 my freshman year, and 1 my sophomore year. Way to set the bar high, Board of Education.

7/13/2006 3:38:25 PM

algebra 1 was 7th grade i think....

7/13/2006 3:49:43 PM

if you're on the wolfweb you're probably on an above average academic level

this is not necessarily something to brag about, it just means you don't get out enough

but, continue to try and pride yourselves on it if you must

7/13/2006 3:50:18 PM

Quote :

"Out of those 5 classes, I placed out of 1, took 3 my freshman year, and 1 my sophomore year. Way to set the bar high, Board of Education. "

Would you like a

?

The majority of students at NC State and at other major universities did the same as you. Does that mean everybody else is able to do the same? Does that mean everybody else needs to?

Mike

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 3:52 PM. Reason : blah]

7/13/2006 3:51:30 PM

like I said

nerds will look to anything to brag about

what they don't realize is that most of it, like grades, being good at video games, having ugly girlfriends, etc...is really a bunch of shit that nobody cares about

they'll figure it out someday, or they might not

7/13/2006 3:53:19 PM

Quote :

"Does that mean everybody else needs to? "

Yes

7/13/2006 3:58:01 PM

^^^ Does everybody need to?!?!

Of freaking course, what's listed up there are courses that you really should have to get by in life regardless of whether you go to college or what you do.

I cant believe you asked that.

7/13/2006 6:09:12 PM

The article is about raising the bar for the highschool students and getting people ready for college.

The new standard looks pretty fucking low to me. This shit isn't about bragging. It's about not purposely creating a generation of fucktards.

7/13/2006 6:12:49 PM

Guilford County already had these requirements throughout my four years of high school.

We also had to do the graduation project the article talks about.

7/13/2006 6:15:56 PM

We need to make a high school degree worth something again so we can get all these dipshits out of college. I'm tired of seeing people come in for business or some sociology or other liberal arts major then go out and become a salesman or a generic office worker. You don't need a college degree to do that and it belittles other degrees. I realize companies want to hire good people and want to hedge their bets so that they don't get complete idiots, but maybe if we didn't just give everyone who attended a HS diploma it could be better. Also I'm a little offended to have the same high school diploma as someone would only took Algebra and some other remedial classes and I was out there taking Calculus, Physics, Advanced Biology

7/13/2006 6:22:20 PM

i went to elementary & middle school in south florida

it was overcroweded and there weren't enough textbooks for us to take home-- we had to share books and DESKS with other students

call me crazy but thats not a very productive learning environment

i went to high school in durham (the BEST one in durham...)

i did pretty poorly on the SAT but got into college

went on to get 2 degrees in 4.5 years and had above a 3.0 GPA

i took algebra my freshman year then went on to take precal & cal at the SAME time over the summer (10 week classes)

some of us just get a slow start and may not shine academically but are good at ther things like getting to know people and making them trust you-- coming up with creative solutions, etc.

just because i am not a 4.0 student and wasn't taking calculus in the womb doesn't mean i don't deserve the same opportunities as other people

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 6:41 PM. Reason : fhgfghf]

7/13/2006 6:34:58 PM

university students = nerds? Pretty sure that most college grads have much better lives than their pees in HS who didn't go to college.

7/13/2006 6:38:04 PM

Does this mean NC public high schools are going to get even worse?

That'd be pretty impressive.

7/13/2006 6:42:20 PM

I too am a product of the South Florida Public High School system, and I earned the diploma there before beginning NCSU. I am the son of an educational director whose doctoral thesis happened to be on education standards, so this topic hits near and dear to home, and I believe that legislation promoting the availability of college through funding is partly to blame. Florida offers "Bright Futures" which makes public education a massive assembly line to packing in the college freshman classes.

At least NC seems to keep more kids out of college.

So my message is, NC, especially in Raleigh, has high school standars that still trump most of the nation.

The lowering of academic standards is at the crux of some of our most American arguments - advantage to the few or to the many? Can we afford to allow the public school system to cease education of the many and focus on the elite, or are we better off as a society with attainable standards so we can certify the masses to be "generic office workers." God bless America where one can major in the anthropology of southern tribes of Fiji to get a certification so he can start the boss's coffee early in the morning and run a fax machine, maybe get stuck in traffic.

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 8:51 PM. Reason : ]

7/13/2006 8:49:30 PM

Uhhh, guys, I think this is kinda silly. This isn't about standards. This is about testing.

You seriously wanna administer state-wide tests to kids for every class they take in high school?

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 9:01 PM. Reason : sss]

7/13/2006 9:00:08 PM

^ exactly, you guys seem to be confusing the two.

Here is another link regarding this policy:
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/accountability/policies/highschoolexit

This is in addition to what was already required to graduate. That is here:
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/curriculum/graduation

This just means that students now have to take a test (and pass/perform at Achievement Level III) at the end of each of these courses to eventually graduate (they still need the other classes, there's just no end of course tests). So getting a good grade in the class is not enough. It's to help stop passing people along who don't really know their shit. Eventually more and more of these will be required. The other idea (that never quite works out) is that policy makers think this will improve the quality of education. What it really does sometimes, unfurtuanately, is cause teachers to just teach to the test. On the state level this is not nec. bad because education is supposed to be ran on the state level. However, with stuff like NCLB it gives the federal government a backdoor into the education system.

The state decides what scores are considered passing. They get stuck between 2 things, they don't want to graduate people who don't know their shit but they also don't want a large number of students not passing these tests. The latter looks a lot worse since those numbers are available to everyone, while there are no numbers for the amount of dumbasses coming out of NC schools. So they're not just going to make End of Course tests for everything all once. They're going to start with some of the lower-level stuff and see how it goes. Not to mention these testing programs are very costly.


[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 9:05 PM. Reason : ^ exactly]

7/13/2006 9:03:40 PM

if kids can't pass Algebra 1, then they don't deserve a high school degree. that shit is EZ. Our educational system is a joke compared to many places in the world.

7/13/2006 9:14:30 PM

I'm not sure that's it's all because of our education system, it's definitely our peformance though. A lot of that can be attributed to cultural differences in the emphasis put on education. The one major problem is inconsistencies in schools across the country compared to other countries.

7/13/2006 9:16:42 PM

Quote :

"thank god I missed the writing part they have now added to the SAT"

Quote :

"Yea, sounds like a great standard for middle school students."

Quote :

"Does this mean NC public high schools are going to get even worse? That'd be pretty impressive."

7/13/2006 9:17:56 PM

i think its fucked up that they punish schools that don't perform as well as others and the teachers there receive less money and bonuses.

of course Cary High is gonna perform better then Ghetto Raleigh High.
This policy just encourages teachers to teach at the good schools.

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 9:25 PM. Reason : l]

7/13/2006 9:25:12 PM

Quote :

"Uhhh, guys, I think this is kinda silly. This isn't about standards. This is about testing."

Right, except that "standards" is in the title of the fucking article. Either way it means the kids just have to get D's in a few other courses, but as long as we know they're performing adequately at middle school level, they're good to go to college.

CRUNCHWRAP SUPREME, IT'S GOOD TO GO

7/13/2006 9:46:57 PM

no, they're good to graduate. What college is accepting D students?

The problem is that the ABC's program is connected with NCLB. If the students don't meet test requirements schools risk losing Title I funding. The states realize this and don't want to hurt their own schools so they're not going to go all out at once. They're going to make the changes a little at a time to make sure the schools meet these requirements.

This is another one of the problems with NCLB. Testing differes state to state, what is tested is different and so are the minimum score requirements.

[Edited on July 13, 2006 at 10:17 PM. Reason : sp.]

7/13/2006 9:49:32 PM

SAT +1000 Represent!!!

7/13/2006 9:50:25 PM

Quote :

"i went to elementary & middle school in south florida it was overcroweded and there weren't enough textbooks for us to take home-- we had to share books and DESKS with other students call me crazy but thats not a very productive learning environment"

Ok lets not mention I went to many schools where education was not prioritized over containment. Where violence and behavioral issues created an atmosphere where teachers could not effectivly teach. I saw more than enough teachers get assualted. I lost one teacher for over half a year to injury after this, left us with a revolving door of substitutes none with a no grasp of any of the material. Hell, Fantasia Barrino dropped out of my high school. Hey remember she said she fucking illiterate. This school system let here get to high school without being able to read. Not to mention sharing books, materials, desks, computers, miserable libraries, etc,etc.

I'm not saying I went to school in Compton or anything but there are always going to be good schools and bad schools. But I'm tired of setting up ways for people who DON'T TRY to get pushed through. I'm tired of seeing the system try to force people with no academic desires to go through. I'm tired of pushing students through with a poor grasp of the material.

Some students don't catch on as quick, doesn't mean they are stupid but if at the end of the school year they haven't caught on they need to be left behind, otherwise you impede the other students next year when the Teacher has to slow down for part of the class who didn't get the basics last time.

We shouldn't stop trying to educate the masses, but we need to stop pandering to those who don't try and those with the violent and behavioral issues.

[Edited on July 14, 2006 at 12:54 AM. Reason : typo]

7/14/2006 12:53:51 AM

Quote :

"i went to high school in durham (the BEST one in durham...)"

I know you mean Jordan right?

7/14/2006 12:59:25 AM

you couldn't even pass the test to get into my highschool without knowing algebra and alot of other stuff on a tough entrance exam that included writing an essay.

7/14/2006 1:06:14 AM

BTW

Quote :

"just because i am not a 4.0 student and wasn't taking calculus in the womb doesn't mean i don't deserve the same opportunities as other people"

YES, YES it does.

Entrance to prestigous or difficult colleges and degree programs are restricted to those who excell. And thats how it should be.

7/14/2006 1:12:49 AM

^Well, she went to State. It's not a prestigious college. And she did very well at State.

Most kids who aren't cut out for college, drop out so I don't know what you're bitching about.

7/14/2006 1:35:23 AM

ehh... tracking and poor ability grouping practices can cause students to miss oppurtunities to take upper level classes even if they're capable of passing them. Entrance into colleges and programs are based on different things for this reason and the fact that there are known problems with high-stakes testing.

Quote :

"Also I'm a little offended to have the same high school diploma as someone would only took Algebra and some other remedial classes and I was out there taking Calculus, Physics, Advanced Biology"

Can't say for every state but students in NC and DE (where I went to school) have to take courses beyond algebra. And probably most other states. And even the students who don't plan on going to college often take the higher math and science classes because that's what the other kids are doing. I posted links for the graduation requirements.
And why are the classes you listed somehow more special than others?

The amount of work depends on the teacher and school. There are no standards or regulations for classes. I've seen AP classes that were easier than honors or college prep., it depends on the teacher. I'm alright with your idea to have different diplomas, but basing it on what classes were taken isn't good enough because of the variations. Also highschool stands on it's own; college is not really a continuation of highschool, it's something we chose to do after highschool. So you didn't have to take those classes, you chose to. The state k-12 education system isn't required to give you anything special for doing this. You can take a course here and learn everything required for that course and the next level. The teacher doesn't give you credit for both of them, he/she only counts the work you submitted toward the credits for the course you're enrolled. If another student did just enough work to complete said course (to the requirements of the instructor), then they get the same credit you do. Would you ask for an extra credit or two?

There are states that have different diplomas as you suggested. Delaware is one of them (started after I graduated): http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050511/NEWS01/505110341/1006/NEWS

If you're really offended you should write you local congressman, and other political reps. and tell them you'd like to see something similar.

Also something you may see as good news, but keep in mind that it's in the early stages:

NC is also part of the American Diploma Project so that may help fix the problems you see with NC education.
http://www.achieve.org/node/604
http://www.achieve.org/node/529

[Edited on July 14, 2006 at 2:45 AM. Reason : .]

7/14/2006 2:36:53 AM

WTF US History and Econ? We never even took those subjects at my school. And what IS civics? Never did these senior project things either. And omg if you can't do algebra 1 you need to just quit now and set yourself up at Waffle House or UPS.

Quote :

"much better lives than their pees"

Can't believe nobody else noted this...

[Edited on July 14, 2006 at 5:51 AM. Reason : meh]

7/14/2006 5:45:50 AM

Quote :

"Under the new criteria, students in the class of 2010 must also create a graduation project that includes an eight-to-ten page research paper, the development of a consumer-type product, a portfolio, a public presentation to the community and basic literary requirements."

Great, they are implementing a senior exit project statewide. I remember doing that in a Charlotte-Meck high-school ... utter waste of time and horribly subjective. [/rant]

Out of curiosity, is everybody of the opinion that you NEED these courses to be successful in life? From what I've seen the pay for a mechanic or truck driver isn't too bad.

7/14/2006 6:31:21 AM

Civics is governent class. When i took it, it was called Economic, Legal, and Political Systems

7/14/2006 7:44:01 AM

stop worrying about other people

7/14/2006 7:45:20 AM

^^Huh. Yeah, we definitely didn't learn shit about that when I was in school.

7/14/2006 7:46:49 AM

Quote :

"Does that mean everybody else needs to?"

No, that's fine... we'll just outsource those jobs overseas.

7/14/2006 7:50:58 AM

Quote :

"Out of curiosity, is everybody of the opinion that you NEED these courses to be successful in life?"

That's probably gonna depend on your definition for successful. I'd like people to have math, science, english, and history every year of highschool, but that's just me. Most of our parents didn't have all of this and a lot of them seem to be doing just fine. You can certainly get through life with out it. If you plan on going to college then I think you should definitely have 4 years worth of the core subjects.

7/14/2006 9:52:12 AM

^^ uhhh.... can you show me sources claiming that outsourcing has to do with a lack of capable people? I'm pretty sure that it common knowledge that it has much more to do with cheaper labor.

7/14/2006 11:57:49 AM

Quote :

"Right, except that "standards" is in the title of the fucking article. Either way it means the kids just have to get D's in a few other courses, but as long as we know they're performing adequately at middle school level, they're good to go to college."

Just some clarification about the five EOCs that students have to pass: Students must score on a level III or a level IV. The cut-off between a 3 and a 4 is 88, and the cut-off between a 2 and a 3 is a 79. Those are hardly "D" averages.

No one is saying that these students are going to go to college. They have to pass these in order to graduate from high school. Some of you seem to think that those are easy classes to pass, and most of us that went to college easily could have passed those. But what about the students who do not perform well on standardized tests? You're telling me that ONE test on ONE day is going to prevent them from getting a high school diploma.

Some of you need to obtain a better understanding about public education...please send me a message if you would ever like to discuss this.

7/14/2006 1:01:59 PM

Quote :

"But what about the students who do not perform well on standardized tests? You're telling me that ONE test on ONE day is going to prevent them from getting a high school diploma."

"I'm sorry boss, I know that we've been gearing up for this critical presentation for a promotion and that I've known I was going to have to do for months, but -- well -- I just don't really 'perform well' in presentations even though I've known about it forever. Since I obviously didn't take adequate steps to resolve the problem, I'm going to need you to just give me that promotion anyway. I totally deserve it though, despite not being able to perform to the level of my peers or the level that is expected of me."

Sometimes, and this may come as a shock, people have to do things they're not good at just well enough to move on. Hell, it's probably the most important thing you learn in school.

[Edited on July 14, 2006 at 1:12 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2006 1:11:58 PM

uhh. damn. i had to pass a buttload more than that in Va (the lovely SOL's) to graduate...

7/14/2006 6:17:51 PM

Quote :

"i went to high school in durham (the BEST one in durham...)"

Quote :

"I know you mean Jordan right? "

indeed


who really cares about the high school diploma anyway? i mean, the people who are serious about going to college will do what they need to do to get into the schools they're interested in

the people who have no desire to go to college dont really even need a high school diploma-- a GED is just as good in some instances

i'm not saying its ok for people who dont go to college to run around without knowing basic concepts but expecting someone to learn detailed & complex subjects is asking a bit much when it will serve no purpose once they leave

but i do agree something needs to be done on a national level to make schools more consistent. students who can't pass early on should be held back so they can master the concepts needed to move on-- this will hopefully result in less people getting "moved" through the system

the reason kids slack in school is because the know they CAN-- if kids were being held back because they failed math and all their friends were going on to the next grade, i bet there is a good chance they'll start trying harder

7/14/2006 6:37:03 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "just because i am not a 4.0 student and wasn't taking calculus in the womb doesn't mean i don't deserve the same opportunities as other people" YES, YES it does. Entrance to prestigous or difficult colleges and degree programs are restricted to those who excell. And thats how it should be."

Try:

Entrance to prestigious or difficult colleges and degree programs is restricted to those who excel. That's how it should be done.

If you're going to be uppity and elitist about propogating social inequality through stratified education, at least write as if you recieved proper training in the English language.

7/14/2006 6:49:18 PM

i made the original comment ab not being a 4.0 student

Quote :

"YES, YES it does. Entrance to prestigous or difficult colleges and degree programs are restricted to those who excell. And thats how it should be.""

i had no intention of going to a harvard or yale or be a doctor or something

this doesn't mean i don't deserve to go to college at all.

i'm not saying those who can't do algebra should be going to ivy league schools

you're missing my whole point-- or maybe you do get my point but are a poor communicator...

7/14/2006 7:09:06 PM

Quote :

"at least write as if you recieved proper training in the English language. "

Christ.

Piece of advice: don't call someone out on their spelling if you're going to fuck up as well.

[Edited on July 15, 2006 at 1:40 AM. Reason : .]

7/15/2006 1:38:49 AM