this is completely what-if....

Lets say that you are pulled over and the officer(s) decided they want to search your car, whatever reason/excuse/etc

They find nothing, you had nothing to hide....but in the process of searching, they break or damage things in your vehicle.

What are your rights/options?

6/26/2006 8:51:33 PM

The city buys you a brand new car of your choice

6/26/2006 8:54:05 PM

it doesn't matter. They get away with it, there's nothing you can do about it. (It's happened to my brother and friend's brother.)

6/26/2006 8:54:09 PM

no rights, G.

6/26/2006 8:54:15 PM

happened to a friend of mine. they cut his seats open looking for the product. found nothing. it was nothing he could do. he was fucked, B. (No homo).

6/26/2006 8:55:03 PM

haven't you ever seen lethal weapon

6/26/2006 9:55:33 PM

well you can bitch to the popo or to whatever other civil authorities there may be, though I doubt they will do anything for you other than a sardonic 'sorry'

6/26/2006 9:59:41 PM

i think that you are missing the fact that you can refuse to let them search

if you dont let them search, they cant fuck anything up

6/26/2006 10:09:34 PM

yeah

tell them you refuse

i'm sure that will work

6/26/2006 10:12:16 PM

too bad you dont know your rights

you have to consent to a search unless they have a warrant

[Edited on June 26, 2006 at 10:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/26/2006 10:12:41 PM

thats the problem with kids today, dont know their rights

ROCK THE VOTE

6/26/2006 10:14:27 PM

I imagine you can be reimbursed for damages.

6/26/2006 10:15:49 PM

You can ask nicely. If your refused, sue.

6/26/2006 10:20:07 PM

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/US_Criminal_Law/Searches_without_a_warrant#The_motor_vehicle_exception

well i was almost right

i know it is wikipedia

[Edited on June 26, 2006 at 10:20 PM. Reason : link tag]

6/26/2006 10:20:20 PM

i imagine you can get a shark lawyer to sue their pants off

6/26/2006 10:20:29 PM

http://forums.thelaw.com/archive/index.php/t-2203.html

Quote :

"I once handled claims like this for City and County governments. I am an insurance adjuster. If I remember right, we did pay for the damage that was done. The police had a right to do it for their own safety, but we had to pay to fix the damage. In any case, it doesn't hurt to ask. I suggest you contact the City Administrator rather than the police and state what happened and that you want to make a claim for the damage. You'll probably have to provide documentation of the repair cost, but it doens't hurt to try."

6/26/2006 10:21:36 PM

I think you can be reimbursed, but they cops will lie to you about that.

My pops had his car torn apart back in the 70s. Cops treated him like one of America's most wanted.

Dad was finally like, "This is ridiculous. I didn't do anything wrong."

It turns out they were looking for somebody who happened to be driving the exact same make and model of car my dad was driving who had a full beard and was wearing a red baseball cap, just like my father was. Creepy.

6/26/2006 10:55:19 PM

someone wearing a red baseball cap in raleigh???

6/27/2006 1:36:52 AM

LOL, it was actually in Virginia. But either way...

6/27/2006 2:03:04 AM

i had a friend in HS who was pulled over after he bought beer from an under cover cop (asked a college aged looking guy to buy a case of beer in the grocery store, turns out he was a cop).
So as he was leaving, a uniformed cop pulled him over. As the cop was walking up to the drivers window, carrying his giant MagLight, my friend was still putting his car in Park. As he moved the gear shift from D to P, it goes through Reverse, of course, so the reverse lights flashed on. The cop thought he was about to ram the cop car, and he took a swing with his MagLight and completely busted out the back window.

Of course my friend jumped out and started yelling at the cop, because there was no way he was going to ram the car, and ended up with an assault with a deadly weapon charge, or assault on an officer or something.

Thankfully, he got that charge dropped in court and did a PFJ on the underage buying or whatever it was. But the city or the court didn't help him out with the windshield at all, so he was responsible for replacing it himself.

6/27/2006 2:17:39 AM

From the wikipedia link:

Quote :

"The motor vehicle exception was first established by the the United States Supreme in Carroll v. United States. The motor vehicle exception allows an officer to search a vehicle without a warrant as long as he has probable cause to believe that evidence or contraband is located in the vehicle. (sic)"

There's no better way to get a cop's "probable cause" meter to go off the scale than by starting to spout off the "get a warrant pig" rhetoric.

6/27/2006 7:58:43 AM

^they don't need a warrant to search a vehicle, only probable cause in the first place. And I would imagine (and hope) there is something that protects a persons' right to protect their rights, therefore making sure the act of asking for a warrant by itself is not probable cause. And a cops' "radar" can go off when ever it wants, that doesn't give them the ability to break the law. Not to mention you threw in the "pig" part as if you have to be dick while asking for a search warrant. No matter what you do when dealing with a cop you should always be polite. The logic you're using promotes laying down rights for fear of a greater effort of the police to find something to charge you with (or just to be dicks) because you pissed them off. Something seems very wrong about that to me. The public should not be afraid of the police in any way.

6/27/2006 8:49:49 AM

just say no

6/27/2006 9:08:56 AM

you ain't got no rights. the cops do what they want and get away with it. if you think you do you've never had your car torn apart for no reason, or been harrassed by the police, or falsely accused of something.

6/27/2006 9:11:56 AM

your statement is assumptious and somewhat idiotic.

In a way i agree with you though, there's not much you can really do to stop it at the time. But if it's ever in your means to do something, you should. And you do have rights, whether the police and DAs adhere to them or not.

6/27/2006 9:57:27 AM

Quote :

"assumptious "

huh?

presumptive is what you were looking for maybe?

6/27/2006 10:00:34 AM

it's funny, reading through this thread, you can tell who's been stopped + searched and who hasn't.


Those saying "you have to consent, etc etc". You do realize that they do not, in fact, need a search warrant, right? All they need is "probable cause". And they sure are creative w/that....

6/27/2006 10:18:30 AM

well it does not matter if they need a search warrant or not they are going to do what they please on the scene. if you want to dispute the legality of their actions you will have to do it in court, by the time you get to court you are already out plenty of time, and attny fees.

6/27/2006 10:21:22 AM

I've heard several cases where the cop searched a car because of questionable "probable cause and found something illegal. The cases were later dropped b/c the "probable cause" used was found to be insufficient. I don't have any first hand experience, but it sounds to me like the cops use just about anything as probable cause, and the legality of the search is later interpreted by a judge.

[Edited on June 27, 2006 at 10:26 AM. Reason : ^beat me to it]

6/27/2006 10:26:25 AM

but that's assuming you've got an honest cop. And we all know how big of an assumption that is....


all they have to do is say "it smelled like weed", or "his eyes were bloodshot, and he was stuttering".
even if you weren't.

6/27/2006 10:29:37 AM

in a state where probable cause for suspicion of dui is touching a line twice, they get mighty creative as to what is probable cause

but the double edged sword is that the field definition and court definition are very different, so as previously stated, evidence discovered during a search later ruled illegal becomes inadmissible.

6/27/2006 10:29:52 AM

1) If a cop has probable cause they can invesitgate your car. If they break anything make sure that they put that on the thing that you sign or REFUSE TO SIGN IT until they state that during the search "such and such was broken".

2) The city is responsible for any and ALL damage caused by officers to personal property if no illegal substances are found.

3) After said event immediately call a LAWYER who can submit the correct forms and such. You will unfortunately have to go yourself to get quotes and you can include lawyer fees on your claim as long as they are reasonable.

Situation that proves the above.

Two years ago a friend of mine was pulled over because his car matched the description of a car sought in a drug smuggling operation. He was pulled over on the corner of Avent Ferry and Gorman while that other police substation was there. He was brought there and they tore open his seats, took apart panneling on his car etc. All the while the car was registered in his name, and the vin number matched. This however was only used to prove the car was his so that he could make a claim against the city.

He recieved $11,000 + lawyer fees which more than covered the cost to repair.

NOTE: had they found anything... anything at all drug wise or illegal... he would not be able to make a claim on the city. Also note that this is a CLAIM not a lawsuit. The lawyer is there to make sure you fill it out correctly. It's worth the time. The payout took 4 months.

6/27/2006 10:36:59 AM

the odds of them finding the search "illegal" are extremely slim.

it's your (drug-abusing, child raping, whatever else) word against the (upstanding defender of justice) cop's.

6/27/2006 10:37:20 AM

Quote :

"but that's assuming you've got an honest cop. And we all know how big of an assumption that is.... all they have to do is say "it smelled like weed", or "his eyes were bloodshot, and he was stuttering". even if you weren't"

well, first you refuse the search politely, just for effect (I've known several people to politely refuse and the cop didn't search. Sometimes, they may just want to see how you react), then if he searches, you ask what the probable cause is before he searches so if he finds something he can't change the reason for the search after the fact. May not always matter, but technicalities could help a lot in court.

I read an article a few years ago about police searches, and they are trained to try and intimidate you into giving up your rights, so the main thing is to be polite w/o completely yielding your rights.

6/27/2006 10:43:19 AM

Quote :

"too bad you dont know your rights you have to consent to a search unless they have a warrant"

This is true.

The only problem is that the cops will write "suspect refused cooperate"

6/27/2006 10:48:11 AM

from merriam-webster's unabridged dictionary

Main Entry: as·sump·tious Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: apparently part of this is an image so I couldn't copy it
Function: adjective
Etymology: assumption + -ous
: ASSUMING

Citation format for this entry:

"assumptious." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (27 Jun. 2006).

It came from miss use I'm sure, but it's an official word at least as of 2002 it looks like. Either way you got the point of what I was saying.

Cops stepping all over your rights is different than not having rights. As people are saying, for those that can afford lawyers, this usually comes out in court. However, there are people who can't afford lawyers and those people who say "you don't have any rights, cops do what they want" don't fight it because they feel this way and get fucked over.

cops can and do get away with a lot of shit, but they would probably get away with less if people held them accountable more often.

6/27/2006 10:51:14 AM

Quote :

"State v. McClendon, 350 N.C. 630, 517 S.E.2d 128 (1999). Whren pretext stop rule formally adopted by North Carolina Supreme Court; nervousness of defendant is appropriate factor to consider when determining reasonable suspicion."

6/27/2006 10:56:17 AM

sue

if they don't pay up, trash his car

6/27/2006 11:26:47 AM

Are you black?

6/27/2006 11:40:20 AM

planning on doing this?

6/27/2006 12:53:25 PM

duro982

Quote :

"^they don't need a warrant to search a vehicle, only probable cause in the first place."

Yeah, the quote I provided pretty much said that.

Quote :

"And I would imagine (and hope) there is something that protects a persons' right to protect their rights, therefore making sure the act of asking for a warrant by itself is not probable cause. And a cops' "radar" can go off when ever it wants, that doesn't give them the ability to break the law."

You are talking about fantasy and reality at this point. It would be nice to believe that simply asking for a warrant would not cause a cop to have probable cause but, as you pointed out, a cops "radar" can go off when ever it wants. If you press for a warrant the cop will probably begin to believe you have got something to hide. I'm not sure where the "doesn't give them the ability to break the law" part of your post comes from, as you acknowledge that a cop can search your vehicle based on probable cause alone.

In short if you press for a warrant out of ignorance (for whatever reason you don't know that the cops don't need one) the cop's "radar" probably just went off. You prob'ly got something 'cause you're making a big deal out of keeping me out of your vehicle. They wouldn't be doing anything illegal because you just solidified their reasoning for probable cause.

Quote :

"Not to mention you threw in the "pig" part as if you have to be dick while asking for a search warrant. No matter what you do when dealing with a cop you should always be polite. The logic you're using promotes laying down rights for fear of a greater effort of the police to find something to charge you with (or just to be dicks) because you pissed them off. Something seems very wrong about that to me. The public should not be afraid of the police in any way."

You read waaaaaaaaaaaay too much into my post my friend.

6/28/2006 7:50:44 AM

I have succesfully refused a search twice. I was very polite when I did it and there werent any problems.

6/28/2006 8:12:55 AM

yeah you dont have to be a dick when refusing, just say "no thanks, im in a hurry"

6/28/2006 8:29:05 AM

Some of you might want to look up the difference between probable cause and reasonable suspicion. I find it funny how paranoid some of you are about police and thinking that every single one is crooked and out to get you like the boogy man

Quote :

"I read an article a few years ago about police searches, and they are trained to try and intimidate you into giving up your rights,"

you might want to go back and reread that article. What police are trained to do is NOT to violate your 4th amendment rights and abide by law. Anything gained out of intimidation or coercion aint worth squat and is wastin everyones time. Officers dont like dicking around in court any more then you do.

6/28/2006 9:54:22 AM

nah, you know as well as i do you guys are trained to ask pointed questions.

it isnt "may i search your vehicle"

it is "if you have nothing to hide you should have no problem with me searching your vehicle. it'll go much faster than if i have to go get a warrant"

it isnt "hi, what was your reason for swerving back there"

it is "how much have you been drinking"

questions designed to put the suspect on edge and trick them into admitting guilt.

6/28/2006 9:59:06 AM

ANSWER: Ill let you search my car after you let me go back to yours, take everything in it, throw it on the sidewalk, rummage through all of your personal shit, break some things, and then leave it like that when I find nothing of interest to me.

After that we can do my car.

6/28/2006 11:09:08 AM

jtilley

i agree with some of what you said there. I probably did read a littel too much into it. i had been up for about 36 hrs straight when i posted that, so neither I nor my post were
all that coherent.

Quote :

"I'm not sure where the "doesn't give them the ability to break the law" part of your post comes from, as you acknowledge that a cop can search your vehicle based on probable cause alone."

"ability to break the law" was a poor choice of words on my part. So let
me clarify what I was trying to say. I wasn't saying that they don't have
the right to search a vehicle on probable cause alone, but that their
probable cause may not be legit according to the court to begin with, or
at least not upheld by the judge. This is why i put radar in quotes. Their
radar, so to speak, going off doesn't mean that it's accurate. The cops
are pretty much always given the benefit of doubt on the scene (for
obvious reasons I think). But that benefit doesn't transfer to the court
system. If you get arrested and the reasons for probable cause are found
insufficient by the judge then the evidence is inadmissable, thus there is
usually no case. I've known several people who have gotten off of charges
this way. Of course that is probably going to depend on specific judges.

Quote :

"What police are trained to do is NOT to violate your 4th amendment rights and abide by law."

being trained to do something and actually doing it are 2 different things. I don't think cops are nec. out to get anyone. But I've seen cops abuse their power. And more importantly, cops are humans and make mistakes. If i get caught doing something illegal i'm willing to exploit any mistake made for my benefit.

[Edited on June 28, 2006 at 11:30 AM. Reason : .]

6/28/2006 11:26:54 AM

Yea Im not saying all cops are angels. and yea cops do make mistakes from time to time. Only thing they can do is try to limit how often it happens. Is every person that gets taken to jail guilty of what they are being charged? No but thats how it works out. If theres enough to "Think" he probably did it then its on. A lot of times people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time and may get hassled by da man.

Quote :

"Ill let you search my car after you let me go back to yours, take everything in it, throw it on the sidewalk, rummage through all of your personal shit, break some things, and then leave it like that when I find nothing of interest to me."

ok thats funny right there I dont care who you are.

6/29/2006 6:37:40 AM

GET'R DONE!!!! HAR HAR

6/29/2006 7:47:42 AM

Quote :

"What police are trained to do is NOT to violate your 4th amendment rights and abide by law. "

if they get you to voluntarily give up your rights, they're technically not doing anything illegal. I know what you're trying to say, but of all the people i've ever heard of this happening to, the cop was never polite and easy going about it.....always pushy and seemingly demanding.

6/29/2006 8:37:53 AM