http://www.wral.com/news/9360146/detail.html

This is bullcrap. One of the things I love about NC is its lack of toll roads.

We are already one of the highest taxed states in the nation, and now on top of that, we may have to pay tolls to drive from pt A to pt B?

6/13/2006 8:46:21 AM

they been talking about doing a toll in western wake county for years

[Edited on June 13, 2006 at 8:50 AM. Reason : so it doesnt surprise me that they are talking about it now]

6/13/2006 8:49:36 AM

Yea, I've heard rumors, but I never really thought it would come to pass

6/13/2006 8:52:06 AM

we don't stop at the tolls...
we got EZ passes

6/13/2006 8:57:40 AM

If they put one on I95 here where I normally travel from Kenly to Wilson, or Kenly to Smithfield...

Ill just go around through the back roads or down 301

You cant put it in an area where people arent just "traveling"

6/13/2006 9:04:11 AM

do you want the road more than you don't want the toll?

6/13/2006 9:47:03 AM

for now it's just the one while they continue to build it

IF it passes...

[Edited on June 13, 2006 at 10:49 AM. Reason : if]

6/13/2006 10:49:36 AM

ez pass express lanes are the shit

[Edited on June 13, 2006 at 10:59 AM. Reason : through the toll at 70mph]

6/13/2006 10:59:28 AM

Well we have the NC Education Lottery... how bout the 'North Carolina Highway Fund Prostitution Ring' .... "Ride Our Hoes to Drive Our Roads!"

6/13/2006 11:20:00 AM

^^yea. that might be the shit, but I would prefer riding through at 70 mph without having to pay anything except what comes out of my paycheck and what I pay when I buy things

6/13/2006 11:39:19 AM

so drive home the other way

6/13/2006 12:02:52 PM

Isn't the state making $texas off the gas tax right now?

6/13/2006 12:15:47 PM

You'd think. If Exxon is making a $0.10/g profit and raking in about a billion dollars a month you'd think that NC would be sitting on a nice pile of cash considering they are getting about $0.27/gallon.

Of course you have to consider that Exxon's profits come from a world market, not just one small state. You would also have to consider there are more gas stations than just Exxon in NC. I wonder what the revenue generated from the gas tax in NC is.

Still you have got to love the "there is a budget shortfall... we need more money" solution as opposed to the "there is a budget shortfall... maybe we should look for ways to spend less on teacup museums" solution.

6/13/2006 12:27:58 PM

Tolls == unintended consequences

If you put tolls on the highways to make more money, people will take other routes, which will increase traffic and congestion on other routes, which will lead to more road work needing to be done and expanding the existing road work further, which leads to more upkeep and a need for more money.

6/13/2006 1:19:46 PM

^Yeah, especially if it is a matter of taking 540 v. 440. I'll just take the inner beltline, thanks.

6/13/2006 1:30:44 PM

uhm

you're assuming that nobody will drive the new toll roads

what you have to realize is there are plenty of people from other states that have moved to NC who are used to tolls, and plenty of people in NC willing to pay a premium for a smoother ride

when i lived in richmond i'd spend $1.50 each way to work because i tried the non-toll road and it added a good 15 minutes each way

thats 3 dollars for 30 minutes of time

i was working for free at an internship and my time was still worth more to me than $6 an hour

an engineer in RTP making $140 an hour is definitely willing to pay that

[Edited on June 13, 2006 at 1:36 PM. Reason : right now only new projects have proposed tolls, nobody is talking about tolling existing roads]

6/13/2006 1:35:20 PM

I think if we had those "Lexus Lanes" that'd be cool. Where it's a lane or two wider and if you pay more you can drive faster in the lanes. Well, I don't know if they really even exist anywhere yet, but it'd be cool. I think I read it in Newsweek or something.

6/13/2006 1:44:12 PM

Quote :

"If you put tolls on the highways to make more money, people will take other routes, which will increase traffic and congestion on other routes, which will lead to more road work needing to be done and expanding the existing road work further, which leads to more upkeep and a need for more money."

Except that people will drive on them. How much money is your time worth? Whats your price for convenience? Trust me, almost everyone will drive on them if it takes them where they want to go.

6/13/2006 1:48:14 PM

^knows what i'm talkin bout

6/13/2006 1:49:48 PM

Quote :

"If you put tolls on the highways to make more money, people will take other routes, which will increase traffic and congestion on other routes, which will lead to more road work needing to be done and expanding the existing road work further, which leads to more upkeep and a need for more money."

Do you have any specific examples?

6/13/2006 2:06:37 PM

140 an hour. wish i was making that much.

but i agree, most tolls wont make ppl drive elsewhere for most trips. come to orlando and take i-4 instead of one of the other roads and decide if it is worth the 50 cents.

[Edited on June 13, 2006 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

6/13/2006 2:22:40 PM

I could see that possibly happening in most parts of Johnston County and other areas along I-95 where 95 and Highway 301 run side by side.

I went to a forum on tolling on I-95 a month or two ago. There were state legislators present along with municipal representatives (mayors, city managers, councilmen, etc.) from towns all the way from Fayetteville up to Halifax County.

There was only one man, Sen. Larry Shaw of Fayetteville, out of a couple hundred who favored tolls. Even among DOT representatives, the idea was met with a lukewarm reception.

I wouldn't mind tolling to fund a new road, but I don't like the idea of amending current state laws that forbid the tolling of existing roads.

6/13/2006 2:23:54 PM

Perhaps setting up a toll I-95 wouldn't be so bad. The ratio of out-of-state/in-state drivers is so high that it wouldn't have as much impact on the locals. That's just an additional thought though.

If a new toll allows for a new road that the state wouldn't have built otherwise, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

6/13/2006 2:34:32 PM

The folks who were at the forum, specifically mayors in border towns like Roanoke Rapids, worry that tolls will divert traffic, and along with it, tourist dollars from folks staying in town, buying gas, shopping, etc. Shaw basically argued that the impact would be much less than those people fear. I instinctively dislike the whole notion of tolling an existing road, but I wouldn't really be against tolling a new one to fund it.

6/13/2006 2:37:54 PM

Woodfoot / TKE:

I'm not saying that people won't drive on the roads. What I am saying is that it will change the traffic patterns which will increase cost over all.

6/13/2006 7:55:15 PM

based on what?

6/13/2006 8:00:32 PM

If they dont toll it, construction will not start until probably after 2020, and face it, tolls are not that bad. As for the current gas tax, it goes toward the road construction fund, and there are currently more projects lined up to do then we have money for, and even the projects under construction now, the price is increasing substantially because the price of a ton of liquid asphalt is rising because of the rise in petroleum products, which are a main ingredient of asphalt. That is why the gas tax we get ass raped on is not giving us a stockpile of cash.

6/13/2006 8:21:10 PM

NC is fucking broke and the roads are complete shit

Drive a different route if you don't wanna pay a toll

there are more miles of state maintained highway in NC than California, im sure you'll find a way around it

6/13/2006 9:37:43 PM

Quote :

"ez pass express lanes are the shit [Edited on June 13, 2006 at 10:59 AM. Reason : through the toll at 70mph]"

you still have to slow to ~20mph for those

6/13/2006 9:43:48 PM

Quote :

"based on what?"

My experiences living in NY for the first 18 years of my life.

6/13/2006 9:44:55 PM

Quote :

"you still have to slow to ~20mph for those"

you are wrong on 2 counts

1. normal ezpass lanes are rated at 20, but everyone goes through them at 35-40
2. EZ pass express lanes are being developed so you dont even have to go through the toll at all. they have everyone who pays the toll get off on a miniexit (kinda like going to 440 from 40), pay the toll, then get back on. the rest of us get to drive the speedlimit or more past a little gun that lets us pay at super speed.



[Edited on June 13, 2006 at 10:08 PM. Reason : you go to that booth on the left, i go under the truss]

6/13/2006 10:07:05 PM

what engineer makes $140/hr? I'll send my resume there.


That might be a billing rate

6/13/2006 10:18:52 PM

Quote :

"My experiences living in NY for the first 18 years of my life."

OH WELL NOW I'M CONVINCED

here i thought i was talking to someone with some DOT experience or something

or a city planner or something

instead i'm listening to anecdotal evidence

my bad, carry on

6/13/2006 10:21:13 PM

As an engineer there is no technical reason why you should need to slow down. Now, there are many design reasons why making them slowdown would make the system simpler and cheaper.

That said, I don't currently work in the industry, I just know how I would do it if I was setting up the system.

6/13/2006 11:47:22 PM

The way the EZ lanes are in Texas, it is right down the middle, and the tolls are on the sides, people dont slow down either. I dont pay the toll because i get off on the exit before, go around, and get on another road. It is funny, they have two side rds on both sides that you can bypass the tolls. Even the exit that i go on says "last exit before toll"

6/14/2006 3:06:53 AM

Quote :

"We are already one of the highest taxed states in the nation"

Way to blow any credibility off the bat (and for the record I think tolls are bad public policy).

Quote :

"You'd think. If Exxon is making a $0.10/g profit and raking in about a billion dollars a month you'd think that NC would be sitting on a nice pile of cash considering they are getting about $0.27/gallon."

Wow, you are comparing a profit with revenue. Way to go, G.

6/14/2006 5:48:04 AM

Quote :

"Woodfoot All American 55194 Posts user info edit post Quote : "My experiences living in NY for the first 18 years of my life." OH WELL NOW I'M CONVINCED here i thought i was talking to someone with some DOT experience or something or a city planner or something instead i'm listening to anecdotal evidence my bad, carry on"

Yea, I agree with you.

b4k4, please cite at least one specific example rather than conjecturing.

6/14/2006 12:59:37 PM

I lived in NJ for 14 years and have lived in NY now for one year, and I'm with Woodfoot here.

6/14/2006 1:52:56 PM

Quote :

"Wow, you are comparing a profit with revenue. Way to go, G."

woah you mean taxes aren't all profit?

6/14/2006 3:46:19 PM

Quote :

""If you put tolls on the highways to make more money, people will take other routes, which will increase traffic and congestion on other routes, which will lead to more road work needing to be done and expanding the existing road work further, which leads to more upkeep and a need for more money." Do you have any specific examples? "

yeah actually, its called the Illinois Tollway. The single handedly worst conceived ideas EVER. Here's why: the tollways were put in to pay for the construction of the highway system in the chicagoland area, and yet when they were paid off was such a cash cow for the state they left them in.

And all the stuff said above is exactly what happened with the Illinois system. They are doing a mass conversion to openroad tolling on ALL TOLLWAYS at the SAME TIME right now and its a goddamn mess.

6/14/2006 6:22:43 PM

Quote :

"Consultants said using tolls to finance construction could get the road built in five years."

Yeah right.

6/14/2006 6:24:24 PM

Quote :

"yeah actually, its called the Illinois Tollway. The single handedly worst conceived ideas EVER. Here's why: the tollways were put in to pay for the construction of the highway system in the chicagoland area, and yet when they were paid off was such a cash cow for the state they left them in. And all the stuff said above is exactly what happened with the Illinois system. They are doing a mass conversion to openroad tolling on ALL TOLLWAYS at the SAME TIME right now and its a goddamn mess."

they actually just sold the illinois tollway a bit ago to a private company - so now a private company is making money off of drivers

6/14/2006 6:37:38 PM

well, makes sense. Leave it to the private sector to come up with openroad tolling but charge 50 bucks a pop for the unit and 40 for tolls. Takes a long time to blow through 40 bucks of tolls.

6/14/2006 6:58:58 PM

uhm, that example has nothing to do with other roads being left to turn shitty

6/14/2006 11:28:01 PM

I never said the other roads would be left to turn shitty, I said the costs would go up as new traffic is generated on alternate routes. The NYS thruway and the taconic parkway run almost paralell to each other for a good distance. As tolls have gone up on the thruway, traffic has increased on the taconic. Since traffic increased, so did neccesary maitenence and road work.

6/15/2006 10:17:32 AM

word

but i'm saying

his complaint about the chicagoland tolls is that they are still there

not that they are jeopardizing the other roads in any way

just that the tolls are still there

thats what i was commenting on, the fact that you two are talking about two different things

6/15/2006 10:53:11 AM

Quote :

"NC is fucking broke"

NC has a two billion dollar surplus this year, does it not?

6/15/2006 11:09:01 AM

Quote :

"One of the things I love about NC is its lack of toll roads"

One of the things I hate about NC is the traffic

6/15/2006 12:41:23 PM

^^ Foot I missed that part in the reply, wasnt paying attention. But to answer it now yes it does create havok on other roads. The secondary roads people travel on to avoid the tolls/congestion caused by tolls are not very capable of handling that magnitdue of traffic. What makes that even worse is that the whole population density of the chicagoland area makes it seem those roads are congested during all daylight hours.

Hooray for bad urban planning, but who could see that happening back when they designed the system? Luckly for NC they have a good chance of planning this out right as to not create massive problems 5,10,20 years down the road if they look around at other states.

6/15/2006 1:47:37 PM

So is this a poorly executed toll system or a problem inherent in tool roads in general? Because tolls are working in other parts of the country.

6/15/2006 4:30:38 PM