Those IR cameras and 6,000 patrollers will solve this immigration issue fo sure.

5/15/2006 8:07:04 PM

Five objectives:

1. Secure borders.
2. Create a temporary worker program.
3. Hold employers accountable for their employees.
4. Allow "good" illegal immigrants to work towards citizenship.
5. Help new immigrants assimilate.

I love the way he says "Mexeeco."

5/15/2006 8:15:38 PM

kick the illegals out, let them come back once they file their paperwork correctly, get documented, and have background checks done.

5/15/2006 8:15:57 PM

half the shit he proposed will never be approved and passed by congress

5/15/2006 8:16:08 PM

yeah, we can spend billions of dollars on contracts for defense contractors to install sensors and operate aerial vehicles, but we cant afford to spend less to just build a huge wall.

[Edited on May 15, 2006 at 8:20 PM. Reason : .]

5/15/2006 8:16:52 PM

Quote :

"Hold employers accountable for their employees."

he wont do shit to his rich republican buddies

the temp worker program is a good way to get more tension -- look at france

5/15/2006 8:18:19 PM

i wonder how this material was ever found worthwhile enough to do the big address when he hardly ever addresses the nation.

5/15/2006 8:19:43 PM

^29%

5/15/2006 8:21:11 PM

rupert murdoch

5/15/2006 8:23:02 PM

Quote :

"yeah, we can spend billions of dollars on contracts for defense contractors to install sensors and operate aerial vehicles, but we cant afford to spend less to just build a huge wall."

yeah that huge wall is sure to be a success

5/15/2006 8:30:26 PM

It would be a success if we built a moat on the Mexican side and put some of those man eating alligators from florida in it.

5/15/2006 8:40:25 PM

i had an idea for a reality show where you would challenge mexicans to build cars that they could jump across the border via a large ramp that we would build on their side of the border.

of course, most of them would die in fiery wrecks, however those who made it would be granted citizenship

5/15/2006 9:07:50 PM

he really wimped out on the 4th objective

Quote :

"Allow "good" illegal immigrants to work towards citizenship"

other than saying he was against "amnesty" he really just made subjective suggestions. The guest worker program could have been the punishment - work five years, pay taxes, but you dont get any govt benefits until the 5 years are up....

5/15/2006 9:18:27 PM

Quote :

"yeah that huge wall is sure to be a success"

how, exactly, would an armed wall not be a success??

5/15/2006 10:30:10 PM

its nice that he talked about it, but he doesn't have much long term power here... its up to the republican congress to decide and they don't really see eye to eye with bush on this.

[Edited on May 15, 2006 at 10:38 PM. Reason : .]

5/15/2006 10:38:30 PM

It's funny to watch people get torn between their racism and their desire for cheap labor.

5/15/2006 10:45:28 PM

Does this actually make any side happy?


Quick, someone tell me what this comes out to:

( low prices caused by immigrants ) + ( increased GDP caused by immigrants ) - ( cost of services used by untaxed immigrants ) - ( cost of creating fortress america )

[Edited on May 15, 2006 at 11:04 PM. Reason : dsafsd]

5/15/2006 10:57:34 PM

I love violating treaties.

GG BUSH ON VIOLATING A TREATY WHICH HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR CLOSE TO 100 YEARS.

5/15/2006 11:11:27 PM

It seems like a pretty mediocre plan to me, that focuses on treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

Bush (and many people in general) seem to think that apprehending people at the border is going to be a deterrent to them coming here, when they already face very difficult conditions to get here (nature, etc.), and when they DO get here, they live in the worst conditions of anyone else in America. A cushy night in a holding cell, and a bus trip back to Mexico isn't going to deter them.

The guest worker program isn't going to work either, because why would a Mexican would-be illegal join a program that keeps track of him, takes his tax $$, then forces him back to his piss-hole of a house in his native country in 5 years, when he can stay illegal and avoid all of that hassle? The only way the guest worker program would work is if it gave them priority in returning to the country (a turn-around time of a few weeks) for legal residency status.

Strengthening the guards at the borders is the only reasonable part of the plan, but is not going to solve any of the problems caused by illegals here.


What WILL solve the major problems of illegals for the short term is giving areas with high illegal populations extra money to handle their illegal population (money to schools to hire ESL teachers, so that $$$ isn't siphoned from the programs for the English students), going after employers aggressively (moderate fine and post their name in the section of the local news paper for "exploiting illegal immigrants" or something), drastically increasing the amount of allowed legal residents (not citizens, but can do practically everything else citizens can do except vote and get educational financial aid), allow immigrants who already speak English to significantly speed up the processing time (on the order of days-weeks instead of years) for their visa application, AND increasing border patrol/surveillance measures.

[Edited on May 15, 2006 at 11:15 PM. Reason : ]

5/15/2006 11:13:55 PM

I always chuckle at the 'dey tuk ur jurbs!!1' crowd getting in an uproar over Mexicans, wrapping themselves up in 9/11 and the American flag...

...and then not saying a single fucking word about our patently unsecure border with Canada

5/15/2006 11:54:40 PM

5/16/2006 12:13:38 AM

I think a huge wall w/ armed guards is a great idea. Here's what it might look like:



Freedom is on the march, around the world and in your backyard.

5/16/2006 12:13:45 AM

Quote :

"kick the illegals out,"

yeah, ok...how?

and do you really want to?

Quote :

"he wont do shit to his rich republican buddies"

that's not what it sounded like

and what does he care? he obviously doesn't give a damn about the popularity of his decisisions...especially now that he's 2nd term.

Quote :

"It seems like a pretty mediocre plan to me, that focuses on treating the symptoms rather than the cause."

that's not what i got out of that speech...i mean, see the last point I was just discussing in this post. he was talking about cracking down on employers.

Quote :

"I always chuckle at the 'dey tuk ur jurbs!!1' crowd getting in an uproar over Mexicans, wrapping themselves up in 9/11 and the American flag... ...and then not saying a single fucking word about our patently unsecure border with Canada"

yeah, i can't see how even the most simple minded trailer trash doesn't see the idiocy of the argument of making it a security issue.

Quote :

"I think a huge wall w/ armed guards is a great idea. Here's what it might look like:"

that would be a little more analogous if it were Mexico who wanted to build a wall.

___________________________________________________

I'm like 80% with the President on this one. I pretty much agree with him on the basic tenets of his position--the discrepancies are in the details of how to execute. I'm also a little less restrictive to immigrants in my views.

I do think that it was a pretty well delivered speech...I don't think GWB will ever take Reagan's title of the Great Communicator, but he did a pretty decent job in his delivery on this one.

5/16/2006 12:40:13 AM

Quote :

"and what does he care? he obviously doesn't give a damn about the popularity of his decisisions...especially now that he's 2nd term."

the man cares DEEPLY about his legacy

5/16/2006 12:41:18 AM

Quote :

"that's not what i got out of that speech...i mean, see the last point I was just discussing in this post. he was talking about cracking down on employers. "

"Mediocre" doesn't mean "dirt-ass terrible."

I heard his thing about cracking down on employers, but he was so vague about it, it just struck me as the typical political BS politicians are known for.

The only things he mentioned that are actually being put in to action NOW are the border security measures.

5/16/2006 12:42:18 AM

^^maybe, but that's not the same thing as caring about the popularity of his decisions right now, and certainly not at all the same as catering to his "rich Republican buddies".


^ok...i mean, it's not the plan I would've drawn up on my own...but we could do a LOT worse. A whole lot of people have much more back-asswards ideas on what to do about this situation. On the whole, it's not all that different from my view in principle.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 12:46 AM. Reason : asdf]

5/16/2006 12:43:12 AM

armed walls are armed walls

5/16/2006 12:56:22 AM

With the Guard on the border (albeit as "support" only), how likely would we see a gun battle between our troops and either Mexican soldiers, police or armed gangs? I wonder what rules of engagement they will be given.

Or with just 6000 U.S. troops, would the illegals merely move the show down the road and sneak in somewhere less monitored?

5/16/2006 12:56:38 AM

Quote :

"^^maybe, but that's not the same thing as caring about the popularity of his decisions right now, and certainly not at all the same as catering to his "rich Republican buddies"."

he needs the support of his base to do the things that he wants history to look back on

5/16/2006 12:58:44 AM

"i wonder how this material was ever found worthwhile enough to do the big address when he hardly ever addresses the nation."

maybe to move past the wire tapping

5/16/2006 1:00:21 AM

Overall, I agreed with the flavor of the President's speech. I'm okay with his 5 objectives. The problem is the myriad of devils in the details. Most presidential initiatives get changed and watered down as they pass through the congress. A watered down version of any one of his objectives could make the problem worse.

1) Semi-secure borders still allow illegals to sneak in while the American Taxpayer covers the enormous expense of guarding the sections that illegals are not passing through.

2) A temporary worker program is fine. But do we have the will to enforce it? What will prevent our guests, whom we have invited in, from staying past their due date?

3) Holding employers responsible has not really succeeded up to now. Do republicans have the will to upset their donor base by prosecuting businesses? Bush places value on a biometric ID card. Will buying or stealing this biometric technology be possible? What if employers, desiring cheap labor over legality, simply ignore checking these "tamper-proof" cards?

4) Bush's requirements to become a citizen if you are here illegally ..
--Pay their taxes: Does this mean get caught up on your fed. income taxes? How willing will immigrants be to fess up to this amount?
--Work in a job for a number of years: How many years? Can you add up multiple jobs? Who gets to report this info to the gov't the immigrant or his employer?
--Learn English: Does this imply that you just have to be in the process of learning English to become a citizen, or do you have to show proficiency? Some folks might not ever pick up the language, do we have the will to send them back?

5) Help newcomers assimilate and embrace our "shared ideals" and "common identity". In a country that is promoting multi-culturalism, it's almost impossible now to get agreement what are our shared ideals and common identities...outside of how to correctly pronounce "Big Mac" and "Biggee Size".

So I applaud our president on his intentions but I remain skeptical about the implementation. We don't have a very good track record when the gov't tries to solve a social problem. We usually end up with bigger unintended problems and more gov't programs and control. But heck, maybe this will be the exception.

5/16/2006 1:49:15 AM

its all words till they actually do something

so lets see something actually get done.

5/16/2006 1:57:34 AM

I bet this bumps Bush's approval rating up a percent or 2.

5/16/2006 1:59:32 AM

short of an armed wall that spans the whole border...how can make sure noone gets across??

5/16/2006 7:50:42 AM

I'm not so sure "immigration day" had the positive impact that the supporters were looking for it to have. So far the two biggest things I have heard come out of that was 1) California trying to pass some law making it illegal to rent an apartment to an illegal 2) Sending troops to the border.

1. Secure borders.
Sure, secure borders would still allow people to sneak in - but you are forgetting that it would deter some. The question is if the cost of securing the border outweighs the "benefits". ^I don't think the point of a secure border is to make sure no one gets across so much as it is to make sure a lot less make it across.

2. Create a temporary worker program.

3. Hold employers accountable for their employees.
What does this even mean? I'll just assume that it means that businesses that employ illegals would get in trouble and that is as far as the accountability extends.

4. Allow "good" illegal immigrants to work towards citizenship.
Wow. Skipped a step there didn't you? How about "good" illegal immigrants working toward a visa/green card and then a "good" visa/green card holder working toward citizenship.

5. Help new immigrants assimilate.
Wouldn't that involve turning them into jerks that don't want to let any more mexicans into the country

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 8:03 AM. Reason : -]

5/16/2006 8:01:57 AM

The fact that he has had six years to do something and is just now starting to address this issue shows that he is all talk and no action. I doubt anything will come of this at all.

Its like Republicans have been running on a pro life platform since Roe vs. Wade. Here it is 33 years later and abortion is still legal, even with Republicans controlling the House, the Senate, the Presidency and the conservative appointees to the Supreme Court. Nothing is going to be done now, and I doubt it will in the future.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 8:36 AM. Reason : .]

5/16/2006 8:36:00 AM

yep

republican leaders need stuff like abortion and social security

cause they have to run somebody every two years

5/16/2006 9:16:26 AM

I also found this part of his speech interesting as well...

"Guard units will not be involved in direct law enforcement activities - that duty will be done by the Border Patrol. This initial commitment of Guard members would last for a period of one year. "

So he has no problem setting a definite date to pull the troops off the border, but when it comes to our troops in Iraq, he tells us a pull-out date cannot be set- we just have to wait until the job is done. Hmmm.

5/16/2006 11:43:37 AM

^Yeah, it's like he doesn't even care if the roadside bombings and insurgent uprisings cease along the Mexican/US border.

also

Quote :

"This initial commitment of Guard members would last for a period of one year."

Doesn't sound like a definite date to me.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 12:01 PM. Reason : -]

5/16/2006 11:49:15 AM

not to hijack the thread

but aren't the roadside bombs set to kill american troops?

5/16/2006 11:55:57 AM

Pantone 7508.

Anybody darker, shoot on sight.

5/16/2006 12:00:05 PM

the temporary worker program is just another way for them to get in "illegally". They use the temp work as a cover up, get here and vanish or start families. Then to a certain degree, they have to remain here with their families.

5/16/2006 12:40:09 PM

He should have added to his objectives getting rid of that law that if you're born here you're a citizen. Too many ppl are taking advantage of that crap

5/16/2006 1:54:59 PM

Junk, there goes my, and everyone elses' claim.

5/16/2006 2:05:17 PM

^gg

Quote :

"the temporary worker program is just another way for them to get in "illegally". They use the temp work as a cover up, get here and vanish or start families. Then to a certain degree, they have to remain here with their families."

How would that be any different than the situation is now?

I still think the temporary worker program can be used as a punishment, not a reward.

5/16/2006 3:49:43 PM

Quote :

"Too many ppl are taking advantage of that crap"

Yeah, I hate it when people take advantage of things by making sure their mothers' vaginas were in the United States at the time of their birth.

5/16/2006 4:19:49 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, I hate it when people take advantage of things by making sure their mothers' planning to have their vaginas were in the United States at the time of their they give birth"

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2006 8:27:22 PM

Quote :

"Wow. Skipped a step there didn't you? How about "good" illegal immigrants working toward a visa/green card and then a "good" visa/green card holder working toward citizenship."

Didn't the President say in his speech that they would be queued behind those who "played by the rules" when it came to applying for visas and green cards?

5/17/2006 1:38:35 AM

THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED.....FOREVER!!!
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12838263/

5/17/2006 5:36:37 PM