Quote :

"Murtha Calls for Withdrawal of U.S. Troops in Iraq (Update2) Nov. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Pennsylvania Congressman John Murtha, a Vietnam War veteran and the top Democrat on the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, called today for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. ``We need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis,'' Murtha told a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington. Murtha, 73, served 37 years in the Marine Corps, was the first Vietnam Veteran to serve in Congress and voted in favor of the Iraq war. House Republicans were quick to accuse him of surrender and abandoning U.S. troops. ``Democratic leaders have adopted a policy of cut and run,'' Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois said. ``America will not abandon Iraq,'' House Majority Leader Roy Blunt, a Missouri Republican, said in a statement. At least 15 other House republicans spoke at a hastily called press conference. ``This falloff of support among the Democratic ranks is not shared by the war-fighting forces,'' said California Republican Duncan Hunter, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. The debate over the March 2003 invasion of Iraq has escalated in recent weeks with opinion polls showing a majority of Americans now say the war was a mistake. The Republican- controlled Senate on Nov. 15 called on President George W. Bush to explain his strategy for withdrawing U.S. troops and report every three months on progress toward that goal. Bush, Cheney Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have defended the war in speeches this week, pushing back against Democratic critics. Democrats in Congress are ``irresponsible'' and ``playing politics'' in criticizing the war, Bush said today at a news conference in Gyeongju, South Korea. ``This is serious business winning this war,'' Bush said. Murtha said U.S. forces could be completely out of the Mideast nation in as soon as six months. ``Before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid-December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice that the United States will immediately redeploy,'' he said. Withdrawing U.S. troops would give Iraq's security forces an incentive to take control, he said. Murtha said he plans to introduce a measure setting forth his Iraq withdrawal plan, which calls for creation of a ``quick- reaction force'' in or near Iraq as well as an ``over-the- horizon presence of Marines.'' The plan calls for the U.S. to pursue security and stability in Iraq through diplomacy. `Primary Target' U.S.-led forces and Iraqi soldiers are struggling to contain an insurgency that's seeking to destabilize the government of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari by targeting military forces, government officials and civilians using car bombs, suicide attacks and other terrorist techniques. ``Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency. They are united against U.S. forces and we have become a catalyst for violence. U.S. troops are the common enemy of the Sunnis, the Saddamists and foreign jihadists,'' Murtha said. The Democrats ``have underestimated the American people and the understanding that if we don't change the world, it's going to change us,'' said Hunter. As of yesterday, 2,075 U.S. military personnel have died in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion and 15,704 were injured, according to Pentagon figures. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a2Ksa47lmBhA&refer=us

11/17/2005 11:10:33 PM

he's right. and seems like a good plan, without seeing the specifics.

11/17/2005 11:14:48 PM

just skimmed it, but is he basically saying "let's start pulling out of iraq, but leave a bunch of shock troops right around the corner, poised to light the place up if need be?

basically, "here you go, don't fuck it up"?

11/17/2005 11:18:40 PM

^That's pretty much it. We'd be keeping a watchful eye on them, rather than being in the middle of them and being a target.

11/17/2005 11:19:53 PM

i don't know what i think about that. i'd have to think about it more, and hear more details. the devil's always in the details.

i mean, in a sense, we're doing this already, i think. i'm assuming he means "let's pick up the pace...a lot."

it's an idea that i would entertain if i were the man in charge, but i do believe that it would have to be a very gradual withdrawal.

furthermore, the iraqi government's input on the decision is something that would have to be weighed.

11/17/2005 11:27:45 PM

He wants us to keep air support in Iraq as well.

Just get the bulk of the troops out so we can stop stirring up more shit.

11/17/2005 11:37:25 PM

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING SINCE THIS BULLSHIT STARTED

11/17/2005 11:44:49 PM

yep, that's one thing i was gonna say. keep the air support there.

11/17/2005 11:45:06 PM

He's obviously a pinko peacenik living in lala land.

Quote :

""I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done." - Murtha"

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 12:20 AM. Reason : ]

11/18/2005 12:04:33 AM

I think his strategic goal is the same, but he's proposing a tactical alternative. Afterall, the administration is preaching the same mantra: turning over Iraq to the Iraqis by training up a new Iraqi army and then phasing out our presence.

Murtha's plan is sensible though. I wish the administration wasn't so jumpy these days to throw out a kneejerk like this.

11/18/2005 10:07:19 AM

does this article mention that he met a guy who had both hands blown off by a bomb dropped by US forces, so the army wouldn't give him a purple heart

so murtha walked in and basically demanded they give him one, and said if they didn't he would give them one of his (since he has 2)

i like murtha a lot now

11/18/2005 10:54:26 AM

Murtha is a good man and honorable soldier. I don't like how the administration responded to his comments OR how the press is portraying his suggestions in the media (they're playing it as a total withdrawal and disengagement from Iraq through the soundbytes).

The only concern I have with his plan is that the Iraqi forces are probably not ready to take over (and this is probably what the administration is alluding to). I don't feel that they have enough trained forces yet to fill the gap left by American forces, and then those "over-the-horizon" Marines will be back in Fallujah and other Iraqi cities in a matter of weeks.

11/18/2005 11:01:11 AM

probably in the amount of time it takes to fly 25 miles and back

11/18/2005 11:10:41 AM

how do we know the iraqi forces aren't ready yet?

(i'm really asking)

11/18/2005 11:11:11 AM

generally drill sargeants and people in the training command can tell pretty well

they take them out on patrols with american patrol leaders and then slowly phase them out while increasing the difficulty and danger of the mission to see what's working and what isn't.

it's been slow going from what i've read/heard.

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 11:13 AM. Reason : *]

11/18/2005 11:13:16 AM

Vietnamization

11/18/2005 11:16:47 AM

Quote :

"because inside every gook... is an american trying to get out."

11/18/2005 11:19:36 AM

Quote :

"...anyone who stands still, is a well trained VC!"

11/18/2005 11:25:03 AM

Quote :

"how do we know the iraqi forces aren't ready yet?"

It's a general consensus among military analysts that the Iraqi government at best a handful of combat-ready battalions. I think once we get a formula that works, training will start to accelerate, but at this point, we're still trying to figure things out.

11/18/2005 3:00:21 PM

maybe we should have figured that out before we toppled their government

ah, sweet freedom

democracy, with wings like an angel

11/18/2005 3:15:06 PM

what part of setting up a government is quick and easy?

ours is still under construction.

11/18/2005 3:22:10 PM

i forgot we're nationbuilders now

i didn't even like us when we were "liberators"

11/18/2005 8:46:27 PM

Make Puerto Rico the 51st state, not Iraq.

11/18/2005 10:06:27 PM

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051119/D8DVI20O0.html

11/19/2005 10:38:58 AM