http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10075026/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10081354/

tough time to be an american car manufacturer...i guess i dodged that bullet

11/17/2005 1:50:59 PM

You Dodged the bullet?

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 2:00 PM. Reason : s]

11/17/2005 2:00:02 PM

What about people that can barely afford a new car?

11/17/2005 2:00:47 PM

ha...i see you what you did there...i like it

11/17/2005 2:00:58 PM

Car sales are fragmented.

11/17/2005 2:02:01 PM

Yeah, someone needs to buy a suzuki

11/17/2005 3:23:29 PM

maybe if americans werent so cavalier and take some cues from japanese automakers

11/17/2005 3:27:05 PM

i feel it's our civic duty to point out the flaws in crappy american products...but we need to do this on our own accord - it shouldn't take a quarter of a million vehicles recalled and one of the largest auto manufacturers going bankrupt (potentially) for us to take action...did they think it would escape our notice?

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 3:36 PM. Reason : aye.]

11/17/2005 3:32:51 PM

all of the flashy neon lights and discounts don't bring many buyers in I guess.

11/17/2005 3:38:52 PM

blah blah blah element blah blah blah

11/17/2005 3:46:57 PM

Everyone should have had the vibe that this was going to happen to GM. This topic is older than Aztek history.

11/17/2005 3:47:55 PM

Unless GM tells the unions to fuck off, they're screwed and will go out of business.

11/17/2005 4:48:46 PM

in the spirit of american car making we should get hot chicks to give us hummers when we buy a new american car

11/17/2005 4:58:19 PM

civic

integra

honda

acura

11/17/2005 5:08:08 PM

2qp958hagtw0232345ongas240sxasf;doi23425s89823l234s92345

11/17/2005 5:18:18 PM

It will be an astronomical event when nightkid86 actually can post something that requires his brain to relay the correct signals.

11/17/2005 11:21:01 PM

Quote :

" Unless GM tells the unions to fuck off, they're screwed and will go out of business. "

It's not fundamentally the unions. Jap car makers have factories in america and have to deal with unions just like american ones do.

American car makers fundamentally make lower quality, inferior products. That's why they are getting killed. Make better cars, and everything else will follow.

11/18/2005 12:13:05 AM

im turning japanese

11/18/2005 12:18:44 AM

^^American car companies pay over $1000 more than jap companies in pensions and health care costs per vehicle. Its not exactly a level playing field. Do some fuckin research.

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 12:20 AM. Reason : 1]

11/18/2005 12:20:35 AM

yeah, and americans aren't buying american cars because of high pension costs, right?

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 12:22 AM. Reason : sdf]

11/18/2005 12:22:10 AM

You don't see how Jap companies have a competitive advantage by saving over $1000 in labor costs per vehicle?

Are you daft?

11/18/2005 12:23:48 AM

Yeah, I see that it would give them a little bit more money to build shitty cars. The fundamental problem is that they don't know how to build good cars. Japanese cars are more expensive, anyway. Why not raise prices to match Jap car makers? That would certainly ease the pension burdern. Oh yeah -- no one wants to buy their crappy cars, even at a discount.

If you aren't selling cars even though they are cheaper, that means your product is bad. Period. Companies that make bad products don't survive. The unions are somewhat of a scapegoat for the fact that they aren't designing good cars. This is THE fundamental problem. You have to be a retard not to see this.

http://afr.com/articles/2005/10/31/1130720480643.html

Quote :

"Health care, for example, adds $US1500 to the cost of making a GM vehicle. Yet even if health care, pension costs and high union wage scales were somehow to shrink, the manufacturing expenses of US car makers would still be uncompetitive. By rooting out wasted costs, effort and time - as well as excess capital investment - Toyota has been able to turn factory usage and labour productivity into major advantages."

This is the bottom line:

Quote :

""The big challenge if you're trying to match Toyota is that they've developed a culture over decades," says Jeff Liker, a University of Michigan engineering professor and author of The Toyota Way, published in 2004. GM "has to change an existing culture into a new one", he says. "

This shit didn't happen last year or the last 5 years. American makers set themselves up a long time ago

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 12:43 AM. Reason : sdf]

11/18/2005 12:33:15 AM

it really sucks...i feel i'm a good ol american, wanting to support american economics and all...but every time you have to haul your car in for ANOTHER repair, it makes you quit caring

i bought a saturn because a.) it was cheap in cost, b.) it supposedly is fairly reliable for an american car, and c.) it gets decent gas mileage

but i've only had it for two months, it has 85,000 miles (of course i didn't buy it new), and already the service light came on...mechanic hooked it up the computer and apparently it's the "cam shaft sensor" or whatever...i wonder how often honda or toyota have a cam shaft sensor failure

11/18/2005 9:22:58 AM

Quote :

"i wonder how often honda or toyota have a cam shaft sensor failure"

nissan pathfinders remind me of american cars. how often they have issues. the only japanese thing about them is the cost of getting them fixed.

11/21/2005 9:38:01 PM

ours had zero problems

11/21/2005 9:43:39 PM

my parents drive shitboxes. Recently they had Kias, a Cavalier, and then I finally I told them to get toyota Corollas. We haven't had shit go wrong with our 99 corolla (80k miles) except a dashboard bulb go out, while our Cavalier had little bullshit electrical problems, a cracked strut, and other shit by 80k.

11/21/2005 10:04:47 PM

The only reason I was comfortable buying an American car was the low mileage (47K on an 8 year-old car when I bought it). Even then, I've had two items that I don't consider 'regular wear items' to die in the year I've owned the car (outside door handle broke, turn signal switch died).

11/22/2005 1:59:57 PM

Quote :

"It's not fundamentally the unions. Jap car makers have factories in america and have to deal with unions just like american ones do."

Before you go voicing your opinions as if they are facts, maybe you should know something about car companies and unions. Take it from someone non-union who works with/around union people in various American auto plants around the country, the beauracracy, red tape, and attitude of the unions is single-handedly choking the big three.

11/22/2005 2:08:07 PM

i see what y'all did here

11/22/2005 2:44:39 PM

Maybe they'll stop making ugly cars that nobody wants to buy.

11/22/2005 5:23:49 PM