I'll go tomorrow.

2/23/2011 12:34:08 AM

Picked up a 'new to me' mossberg 500 today and swapped the stocks around.
12'' LOP Hogue on 590 Mariner w/20'' barrel
14'' FDE Hogue on 500 w/ 18.5'' barrel

Both Shotguns:


Flat Dark Earth (FDE) fighting pair:


26'' vent rib barrel for the 500 as well:

2/23/2011 5:21:22 PM

starting to think about another rifle. some sort of small centerfire that i could plink with and just tote around in the fields for targets of opportunity. i absolutely love my new savage, but it's way too heavy and long to be dragging around like that. kinda like what i do with my 10/22 now, except i want some more range and knockdown. not really feeling a bolt for this. autoloader or perhaps a lever. i don't have a 30-30, but i think i want better ballistics than that can offer. something with cheap and plentiful brass and bullets would be ideal. i admit, an AR in .223 would pretty much nail this down. light, extremely durable, etc, but i hate the ugly things, not to mention the price.

what do y'all think? i'm all ears.

background info: i've got a couple .22lr semiautos and bolt guns in 22-250, 270, and 30-06

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 9:48 AM. Reason : asdf]

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 9:49 AM. Reason : i'd want minute of groundhog accuracy to at least 200 yds.]

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 9:52 AM. Reason : let's try to do it for less than $500 w/o optics]

2/24/2011 9:47:41 AM

dude wanted me to pay $450 for the used SP101, Hogue Grips, 50 Rd. Ammo. Tried to tell me the fact it had "no paper trail" was worth $100 alone. I laughed and said no thx.

2/24/2011 11:21:31 AM

hahahahahaha

idiots of the gun world never cease to amaze me

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 11:27 AM. Reason : sad thing is some other idiot will buy it from him at that price]

2/24/2011 11:27:34 AM

^^^Just get a mini 14.

I use an AR for that same task, but a Mini14 would be my next choice.

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 3:42 PM. Reason : I missed your $500 limit. I guess this would bust that.]

2/24/2011 3:41:45 PM

i might could find one used in my price range, but i've read too much about how inaccurate they are.

2/24/2011 4:18:17 PM

A scout rifle config would fit your usage.

2/24/2011 5:55:33 PM

excellent idea. now what platform?

2/24/2011 6:15:21 PM

Honestly, if you want to go really cheap do a Mosin M44. Mine was accurate as sin out to 200yrds and had plenty of knockdown power. Throw a scout scope on the front of it, tadaaaaa. Scout rifle, for under $300.

Seriously, do an AR type platform. You can build your own for under $500 now, and my bone stock 16" AR will do MOG (minute of Groundhog) to 300yrds with BDC scope.

2/24/2011 6:21:54 PM

dammit, i guess i just can't deny the versatility of that rifle. as much as a utilitarian as i am, you'd think i'd have 5 by now.

show me some that don't look ridiculous. any general guidelines for more of a "field" model? fuck that tactical shit. i have a 12 ga for that kind of work. i know nothing about ARs.

2/24/2011 8:27:54 PM

something like the one he's holding would be acceptable

or something like this



now, tell me what i'm looking at

[Edited on February 24, 2011 at 9:25 PM. Reason : dasf]

2/24/2011 9:21:37 PM

I think the first gun is a Remington R-25. A standard AR would just have a 16" barrel with 6position stock and plastic handguards. The second rifle has a free float handguard (little more accurate) and a scope (obviously). Mine is a stock M&P with normal handguards and no front sight. I do have a 3-9x40 scope on it with a BDC, and I can accuratly and quicky hit within a pie plate up to 400yrds from a rest, freehand I am not so good. Its my go-to gun for yotes and beavers/groundhogs from 100+ yards. Under 100yrds, I hit em with the .22WMR, it tears up a beaver ass.

2/24/2011 9:28:41 PM

that bottom one looks cool

2/24/2011 9:39:48 PM

The bottom one is probably $800-$1k.

2/24/2011 10:28:04 PM

where would you guys suggest one look to find well priced ARs? Im not planning to storm kabul with it so im not looking for much more than a barebones ar. Something along the lines of a M&P OR or Del Ton MOE catch my eye.

2/24/2011 10:54:45 PM

What are the pros/cons to this Colt AR?

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/60384

2/24/2011 11:43:41 PM

Pretty awesome.

2/25/2011 12:22:08 AM

i'd like to just buy it piece by piece and put together exactly what i want. where's a good place to start reading? i looked around ar15.com, but it was kinda like information overload. i just want a reliable AR w/ hunting accuracy for cheap.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 6:53 AM. Reason : that's probably what everyone says they want]

2/25/2011 6:50:43 AM

I know where you are coming from, when I first looked at AR's it was a bit of information overload and it was a little intimidating. Check out local forums such as carolinashootersforum.com and search up there. Same info, just not as much of it.

Check CDNN and other sites such as CMMG for cheaper AR's. Also check out Patriot Shooting Sports in Youngsville as they carry Del-Ton AR's in a build it yourself kit for under $600. I also would go on midwayusa.com and look at the lowers and uppers you will need. You need an upper, a bolt carrier group and charging handle (BCG & CH, some uppers come with it), a lower (complete has the parts, stripped you need a "parts kit") and then a butstock and your optic.

For example (you can get these cheaper somewhere else if you search around)

Lower (complete)

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=613527

Upper

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=416788

$600, and thats not even *that* cheap.

2/25/2011 7:29:56 AM

i guess i actually want 5.56 and not .223. is this one of those things where you can run .223 in a 5.56 chamber, but no 5.56 in a .223 chamber?

2/25/2011 7:55:26 AM

^4 while I like suppressors and wouldn't mind getting some myself (just so I didn't have to wear ear protection when shooting all afternoon), I don't see the point in spending 130 bucks on a suppressor that works for only 25 rounds (and that was the high range they gave)...

2/25/2011 8:51:54 AM

but, biofreak, it's tactical

2/25/2011 9:01:53 AM

haha that is definitely the wrong term to use for that though (why would Glock call it that?)... why would you need a suppressor on the battlefront? especially knowing that they can cause load failures (you even see it in that video). and why would you want something that you can get a max of two magazines through before it was worthless (now if these things were rechargeable or cost 5 bucks a pop, then I could possibly see this being worthwhile)


oh wait, calling it tactical will get it sold twice as fast...

2/25/2011 9:22:10 AM

how the fuck am i supposed to sign up for ar15.com if a gmail address is not permitted?

2/25/2011 9:25:52 AM

what? I signed up a year or so ago and was able to use a gmail address...

i'd give you my log in info if I remembered it, but I only posted once, and haven't been back in forever

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 9:27 AM. Reason : i is forgetful ]

2/25/2011 9:26:31 AM

i was just hoping that registration would unlock some sort of search feature

i used my work email. hate doing that for gun stuff. they only recently unblocked midwayusa.com on our junk.

2/25/2011 9:29:33 AM

Quote :

"how the fuck am i supposed to sign up for ar15.com if a gmail address is not permitted? "

Yeah, I'm a member of a couple of different forums that require you to use an email that you can't get "free" on the internet. It can be a pain since my yahoo is the only one I actually use any more. All the others have just become spam holders since I just use them whenever I have to put my email in to sign-in to some random site

2/25/2011 9:55:36 AM

ar15.com is about as "tactical" as they come. You won't get much help over there; buncha mall ninjas.

m4carbine.net may serve you better, or there are enough AR users here that we can probably figure out what you want and how you want it set up.

Also from ^xhowevermany suppressors are used in SOF on the battlefront to confuse and disorient. I've seen them on M-4s, 249s and M-14s more to disguise the gunshot noise than hide it, although on the 249 you aren't really going to hide the fact it's a gun.

2/25/2011 5:34:55 PM

reading some reviews and stuff, i think the doublestar lower will serve me well. i want the adjustable stock so i can shorten it up and let my wife shoot it some. having trouble deciding on the upper. kinda wanna get a complete upper so i don't have to buy the tools to put it together.

discuss 20' vs. 18" vs. 16" bbl. i'd like to keep this thing compact, but i also wanna make sure it's accurate enough to serve as a predator/walking varminter rifle. do i gain much accuracy or velocity by going up to the 18" or 20" bbl? i'll be shooting mostly handloads if it matters.

how about free float handguards? as a bolt guy, i don't really even consider stocks that aren't free floated. will it make much difference? like i said, as long as it'll kill a groundhog at 200 yds, i'd consider it acceptable.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 5:52 PM. Reason : adsf]

2/25/2011 5:51:31 PM

You will definitely gain velocity by going 20" over 16". However you want this to be a scout type rifle for field carrying, make it 18" and call it good. Ground hogs at 200 yards are doable with that set-up and you will still maintain the mobility/compactness you want.

Free-floating will absolutely be a necessity for your intended usage, if you are shooting off-hand frequently. With a sling and a non free-float you can move your point of impact a serious amount. Look into the VTAC hand guard, free floated and lighter, plus not a giant retarded looking quad-rail. Picture of one in my gallery I think.

Finally, Double Star lowers are legit for this; you aren't going to be in a 4 hour fire fight, or go to a "range experience" class, you don't need LWRC or Daniel Defense. I have one and it's fine. Drop in a JP trigger and you're set.

Doing some research I stumbled across scoutrifle.org Good info over there.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 6:06 PM. Reason : not accu]

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 6:10 PM. Reason : website]

2/25/2011 6:04:56 PM

i usually have a primos trigger stick monopod when i'm walking around like that. i should really try to become a better off-hand shot with a rifle, but it's never been necessary in my shooting (all hunting with some sort of rest, even if nothing but a tree or fence post).

anyway, if i'm looking at the right thing, that handguard is about $190. is it really worth it?

also, can you link me to the JP trigger you're talking about? what will that gain me? just a crisper trigger? less creep? i'm a sucker for a good trigger.

2/25/2011 6:26:04 PM

My 16" serves me just fine. It does around 1" at 100yrds with Wolf Surplus, however I really want an 18" or 20" light profile fluted with free float REALLY BAD!

Just pick up a free float tube and call it done. You have the barrel free floated, and it looks cool (its whats on that 2nd rifle picture you posted. DPMS makes one for like $30. I'm doing that and a low-pro gas block (to fit under the handguard) soon, just havent spent the $$$ yet.

Also, for like $100, you can buy a .22LR kit for it that is TONS of fun. I keep my .22 kit in it most of the time.

2/25/2011 9:27:21 PM

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.1_ezt.php for the trigger

VTAC is a great hand guard, designed by an AR god (Kyle Lamb) but if you can find something you like for cheaper, go for it absolutely.

2/25/2011 10:03:08 PM

my family has a nice sized piece of land down in Scotland county. There's a high-tension line right of way running through the middle of it, a few hundred feet wide.

I think this would make a perfect spot for a range. at one point it slopes downhill, then back up, so the range could be set up so we're shooting into the dirt.

there is a local club that has a hunting lease for the property, and I don't want to ruin anybody's day by firing off a few hundred rounds while they're sneaking through the brush nearby. somebody want to fill me in on the hunting season in NC? deer/turkey/whatever

thanks

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 11:07 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 11:06:53 PM

^http://www.ncwildlife.org/Regs/2010_11/2010-11_Seasons.pdf

Yankee Hill makes a bunch of different free float tubes, with and without rails. I think pretty much all of them are under $100.

Lower choice doesn't matter, really only your trigger does, and that's not even crucial. Stock choice doesn't matter, you can go collapsible or A2. I've used the fancier ones and they don't add much to the experience. Honestly, I would build myself out a decent lower, then wait for the next big gun show. There are a couple of good local AR shops that come out there, and they can build you exactly what you want in an upper. If you want someone there for an objective opinion, I'll probably be there since I go to most of them.

[Edited on February 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM. Reason : .]

2/26/2011 6:49:42 AM

i might take you up on that.

is the lower the only part i need an FFL for? that's the actual "gun" with the serial numbers and all, right?

2/26/2011 9:43:17 AM

That's correct. It's the only serialized part.

2/26/2011 9:50:02 AM

I hope I'm not late to the party.

Have you guys heard about the new castle doctrine legislature going around the NC senate now?

http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/story/9167526/

From what a google search has told me, sounds like "stand your ground" in the home, immunity from civil prosecution, extends to your car as well.

Neat.

2/26/2011 1:03:44 PM

yeah, but it doesn't change the conditions under which it is legal to use deadly force



[Edited on February 26, 2011 at 2:16 PM. Reason : excuse me sir, do you plan to commit a felony inside my home?]

2/26/2011 2:16:21 PM

Thats exactly what it does, i thought

I was taught that castle doctrine means you find someone in your house you could shoot on sight

2/26/2011 3:08:20 PM

that's why idk why they're calling this "castle doctrine". the way i read it, you still have to have your life endangered.


btw, i'm not spending $260 on a trigger and hammer for shooting groundhogs and beavers and such.

[Edited on February 26, 2011 at 3:29 PM. Reason : dasf]

2/26/2011 3:22:04 PM

There are two current Castle Doctrine bills. The stronger of the two asserts that if someone is in your house that you don't want there (it defines it better) you can assume they are committing or are there to commit a felony, therefore deadly force is warranted. I hope the stronger bill passes.

2/26/2011 10:30:51 PM

^x2 Understandable. I'm an AR guy to the bone. A guy like yourself, more in tune with the classics, I would really research the scout rifle. That website I put up earlier had a great section on DIY scout rifles.

2/26/2011 10:51:46 PM

^x2 it also protects the victims from being sued in Civil court by the intruder/their family as well as expand it to your property, vehicle and workplace. there is a good bit more involved. for all interested check out Grass Roots of NC. they are a gun owner advocacy group that pushes for legislation for us. they send out email alerts to inform people of whats going on. You don't even have to be a member to get the email alerts!

2/27/2011 1:09:53 PM

still working on load development for a 55 gr nosler ballistic tip in the .22-250. shot 5 round groups of 31.4, 31.7, 32.0, 32.3, and 32.6 gr of varget since my best group of .5" came from 32.0 gr of varget last time. for some reason, this thing really likes 32.0 gr.



i'm gonna try a set of 31.8, 31.9, 32.0, 32.1, and 32.2 gr just for shit and giggles, but i'm pretty happy with it right now.

now i just need to figure out something on the 40 gr v-max. all i found out from it this weekend is that it hates RL15 (and that RL15 burns with a bad sulfur smell )

gonna order some 55 gr berger match varmint bullets and see what they'll do. i'd like to get this thing down around .25-.30", which i'm probably not capable of anyway. harris bipod will be here soon and should be an improvement over the shitty walmart bags i use.

2/27/2011 7:28:03 PM

What's the twist rate in the 22-250?

2/27/2011 8:40:14 PM

mine is 1-in-12

[Edited on February 27, 2011 at 9:13 PM. Reason : wish i had a chrony]

2/27/2011 9:12:03 PM

Sorry to get off topic, but I think this needs more attention than its been getting...

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&Ntk=GunLibrary&Ntt=Sabatti+Model+92+Deluxe&x=19&y=11&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat107030880

Sabatti recently got bought by cabela's who is now selling "affordable" large caliber double rifles. I know 5K sounds expensive, but before these rifles, a double rifle in an elephant worthy caliber would have run you 25K plus.

I know this isn't going to wow many of you, but if you've ever dreamed of anchoring a bull elephant at 20 yards, you can knock about 20K dollars off that dream haha.

2/27/2011 11:19:40 PM

^^What make/model is that rifle?

It looks like you're possibly getting some vertical stringing. I say "possibly" because that's a pretty damn good group and it may not actually be stringing.
Is the barrel free floated?
Another reason it could be stringing vertically is inconsistency in bullet tension. Are you trimming the brass? Do you clean case lube off the insides of the necks before loading?

The shooting bags themselves could be causing the vertical stringing depending on how you hold the stock and rear bag.

^That's cheeeeaap for a double.
I wonder if they're gonna start offering calibers other than the nitro expresses.
Seems like 375H&H or 458 Lott would have been the better calibers if they're looking to sell to the masses (relatively speaking of course).

2/27/2011 11:31:17 PM