^ you crazy. But everyone is entitled to their opinions I suppose.


Just got back from seeing it in Imax 3d. MAN, that was WAYYYY better than seeing it at Mission Valley. After adjusting to the 3d, I was surprised at how much it helps. It's like the rumble pack for your xbox/ps3. Not something to OMGWTF about, but it definitely enhances the experience.

A flimsy story can still be awesome if the story teller is good at his job, and Cameron certainly knows how to do that. If he spent at much time on the story as he did the visual effects, making up fake languages, and all that jazz, this movie would have been phenomenal.

12/26/2009 10:57:37 PM

Update to Cameron cussing out that fan.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/26/james-cameron-avatar-fan-signing-autograph-refuse-good-day-la/#comments


Now I totally side with the fan.

12/26/2009 11:11:31 PM

^^ well I feel like I'm going kind of insane here. It's honestly kind of a surreal feeling to walk out of a theater so completely dumbfounded at how popular this movie is, and be able to count so many things that were just plain bad about it. It's a strange feeling - i guess this is what people getting punk'd feel like, when everything happening around them just doesn't make any sense.

12/26/2009 11:15:44 PM

well of course there was plenty of things wrong with the movie and plenty of things i would have changed if I were running the show, but can you not honestly say this film is a far leap and bound better than 90% of the trash that we've been subjected to in the sci-fi genre over the past couple years?

12/26/2009 11:17:41 PM

^^There is always going to be someone like you with every movie. Not everyone is going to be pleased. However, when pretty much everyone else thinks its totally badass, and you are the one who thinks its horrible, you are more than likely the one with the issues. Take that feeling about how you don't understand how anyone can like it, and thats how we feel looking at your opinion. It goes both ways. And there are more people that think its badass than not. So take that for what its worth.

[Edited on December 26, 2009 at 11:18 PM. Reason : ;]

12/26/2009 11:18:29 PM

^^ i don't know, I don't watch sci-fi. I'm not talking "relative to other trash" - i'm saying relative to good movies, this one was bad.

^ oh, in that case, I guess I'll decide this is a good movie, and as long as i'm following the masses, I'll become a Christian too!

12/26/2009 11:24:55 PM

I wasn't saying you were wrong, or that we were right. But more than likely, when you are the minority, you have to question yourself.

Likewise, all of us who loved the movie could be total morons and have no clue what we are thinking.

12/26/2009 11:39:00 PM

Quote :

"Likewise, all of us who loved the movie could be total morons and have no clue what we are thinking."

hmmm, yeah..... after reviewing and validating my own opinions, thats kind of the conclusion I've come to

12/26/2009 11:59:39 PM

Glad you responded that way. Lets look at the facts.

More people on TWW that post in the Avatar thread love it. An overwhelming majority.

IMDB has it as #24 all time with 69,000 votes. Sure great movies on there start out strong, but still tend to finish high.

Rotten Tomatoes has it at 83%.


So basically what you are saying is that ALL OF THESE PEOPLE AND CRITICS ARE WRONG, and you are correct in the underwhelming minority who think that this movie is crap.


The question you need to be asking yourself is not why so many people think this movie is so great, but instead you need to be asking yourself "What is it about me that is causing me to not see this movie as being badass"

12/27/2009 1:49:31 AM

Look, most reviews, even the positive ones, say "Great visuals but story sucks."

Some value story more than others. Some can't look past shitty stories.

It's pretty simple.



And I highly doubt this will remain #24 for very long, that's pretty ridiculous.

[Edited on December 27, 2009 at 1:56 AM. Reason : .]

12/27/2009 1:55:58 AM

Among critics with credibility it's faring even better, much better in fact

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/?critic=creamcrop

People are entitled to opinions of course, I have a friend who thinks Master & Commander was the worst movie ever, while I think that movie is a great age of sail/Napoleonic flick. No accounting for taste of course, but by the standards of most people Avatar is great.

[Edited on December 27, 2009 at 2:00 AM. Reason : ]

12/27/2009 1:58:55 AM

The story is lacking a little by far. I will admit. There are movies with much better stories out there. However, the this movie in 3d combined with the visuals, which I think account for 70% of the movie just make this entire thing completely awesome. If I had just watched some bootleg of this on my laptop from some idiot camming it, I would think it was just meh. The beauty of this film is how Cameron worked in the 3D to create the most beautiful and visually stunning movie all time. That, combined with just a decent story makes this movie the shit.

Look, nobody is claiming that the story is "OMG awesome" Because its not. And thats not how its supposed to be judged. Its the overall aspect of the movie that makes it what it is.

I will more than likely never own this movie, at least until technology catches up, because nothing I can buy can even come close to what I saw in the theater.

[Edited on December 27, 2009 at 2:34 AM. Reason : .]

12/27/2009 2:32:57 AM

Quote :

"Look, nobody is claiming that the story is "OMG awesome" Because its not. And thats not how its supposed to be judged. Its the overall aspect of the movie that makes it what it is."

You can't fault people for judging a movie's story. ESPECIALLY a movie like this, where so much effort was put into it. Bad writing can be distracting.

Again, I have yet to see it, I'm just saying.

12/27/2009 2:40:32 AM

The story was unoriginal, but the acting was good and the storytelling was great.

12/27/2009 2:45:41 AM

I think your overall opinion of this movie depends heavily on how much weight you give to the visuals.

12/27/2009 2:50:36 AM

Quote :

"You can't fault people for judging a movie's story. ESPECIALLY a movie like this, where so much effort was put into it. Bad writing can be distracting. Again, I have yet to see it, I'm just saying."

Its opinions like these that just kill me. You obviously have no clue what went into this movie. Cameron didn't spend almost/over a decade writing this movie. He had a grand idea for a movie. At the time he wanted to make it, about 10yrs ago, he felt that the current technology that existed in movie making would not do it justice, so he put the "story" on the back shelf until technology caught up. Around 3 years ago, it did, and he started actually making the movie.

I could be missing what you are meaning in your post, but to me, it seems to many people seem to be focused on the story, which is totally ok, but you also have to factor in the visuals, which by far and way blow any movie from the past out of the water.

12/27/2009 3:19:29 AM

Quote :

" You obviously have no clue what went into this movie. "

Wat?

12/27/2009 3:26:55 AM

ok, here's my problem with the visuals.....
Were they stunning? Yes. The best I've ever seen? Yes. Was the 3D fantastic? Yes. Am I dutifully impressed with the technology advances and effort made to make this possible? Absolutely. Is James Cameron a genius worthy of the Nobel Prize for advancing our civilization into the next generation of cinematic experiences? Sure, whatever, I don't care.

But in the end, even with photo-realistic visuals, it was still so distractingly apparent that I was watching a fucking cartoon for 80% of the movie. I can only take so much bright blue and purple plants, glowing trees, flying reptiles, floating islands, prayer circles, and Native American stereotype rip-offs before I roll my eyes and think "really, is everyone else here taking this movie seriously?", no matter how good it looks.

But guess what - I would have been happy to watch a 2.5 hour cartoon if the story, characters, plot development, and continuity had been worth a damn.


And last word on the visuals - yes, they deserve all the praise available to them. They were photo-realistic and showed incredible creativity and attention to detail. But if I wanted to watch amazing, mind-blowing landscapes and animals that I can't fathom for 2 hours, I'd pop in the Planet Earth Blu-Ray DVDs and watch it with my jaw on the floor, while watching and learning about something real.


and Bweez is right:

Quote :

"Look, most reviews, even the positive ones, say "Great visuals but story sucks.""

I keep reading reviews that basically say that, and I can't see how these so-called critics can take themselves seriously. I mean, who would believe that this is part of a gushing, glowing review

Quote :

"Yes, on one level it’s a crock: predictable, sentimental, and tin-eared. It’s an attempt to rewrite (and reanimate) American history in the form of a barely disguised parable of Native Americans triumphing against white imperialists who would drive them from their ancestral lands — aided by a white imperialist (a Marine) who has Gone Native. "

http://nymag.com/listings/movie/avatar/


[Edited on December 27, 2009 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

12/27/2009 9:55:26 AM

I am shocked that everyone is surprised the story sucked. I haven't seen it (hoping to go this weekend) but well before this movie was released it was very apparent that this was to be a visual experience.

Pretty much a big advertisement for Cameron's new technology and procedures.

I mean from the first non-teaser trailer you had the entire story. Its a lame cookie cutter watch these oppressed people rise up and blah blah.

It just provided the setting to show off what he has been working on for years and years; the technology, not the fucking story.

12/27/2009 10:56:53 AM

^I don't know that anyone is saying they're surprised. Just disappointed.

I mean come on, the man wrote Aliens and Terminator 2. And this was his baby.

I'll probably see it tonight.

12/27/2009 12:30:17 PM

He is just in love with these hippy themes and its hard to make a good story out of it.

12/27/2009 1:05:49 PM

well speaking of T2, it was expensive and revolutionary for the time (the effects still hold up perfectly today), but he still managed to make a kickass story and overall movie around the new technology

12/27/2009 1:14:07 PM

Did anyone else think the bad guy (marine commander) was a bigger badass than the hero? That mfer just did not flinch no matter what happened. He was a true motherfucker and died an honorable death.

12/27/2009 4:12:31 PM

Haven't seen this. Science-fiction is not my favorite genre. Well, actually, I'm fine with sci-fi...it's fantasy (for lack of a better word) stuff that I think is gay, and this is, at best, treading dangerously close to that line.

The bigger deal is that I really don't like CGI. It's ok for subtle use here and there, but I don't like it when it's over the top, and I definitely don't like to see entire movies based around it.

I just don't really see what the big deal is over this movie. I guess I'm just not going to "get" it.

[Edited on December 27, 2009 at 4:46 PM. Reason : plus, the happy-hippy themes of it seem a little trite.]

12/27/2009 4:44:04 PM

This movie is basically a fantastic-looking Ferngully. It's not a great movie, but it is gorgeous.

12/27/2009 5:08:08 PM

Quote :

"However, when pretty much everyone else thinks its totally badass, and you are the one who thinks its horrible, you are more than likely the one with the issues. Take that feeling about how you don't understand how anyone can like it, and thats how we feel looking at your opinion. It goes both ways. And there are more people that think its badass than not. So take that for what its worth."

by this logic transformers 2 must be the greatest movie of all time.

12/27/2009 5:10:58 PM

I liked the part where kate winslet was like Get away from her you BITCH!

12/27/2009 5:11:16 PM

they are clearly mining unobtanium to construct a vehicle which can travel to the core of the earth in order to detonate nuclear warheads to make the outer core resume its rotation.

12/27/2009 6:50:41 PM

unobtainium is fucking stupid as hell too

12/27/2009 6:56:08 PM

the movie was excellent.

12/27/2009 7:10:07 PM

Quote :

"Haven't seen this. Science-fiction is not my favorite genre. Well, actually, I'm fine with sci-fi...it's fantasy (for lack of a better word) stuff that I think is gay, and this is, at best, treading dangerously close to that line. The bigger deal is that I really don't like CGI. It's ok for subtle use here and there, but I don't like it when it's over the top, and I definitely don't like to see entire movies based around it. I just don't really see what the big deal is over this movie. I guess I'm just not going to "get" it. plus, the happy-hippy themes of it seem a little trite"

I like Dukes take on this, completely agree

12/27/2009 7:15:45 PM

^yeah... that's the opinion i'd side with... one that starts with "haven't seen this..."

12/27/2009 9:59:30 PM

is the IMAX still selling out ahead of time?

like for tomorrow night?

12/27/2009 10:10:56 PM

http://imaxraleigh.org/showtimes/

Nearly sold out for the next 5 days... holy shit.

12/27/2009 11:43:40 PM

yeah it looks like i wont be able to see this until 2010

12/27/2009 11:53:26 PM

I have a question: were the normal people CGI too or were they live-action?

12/28/2009 11:04:37 AM

Quote :

"It's ok for subtle use here and there, but I don't like it when it's over the top, and I definitely don't like to see entire movies based around it. I just don't really see what the big deal is over this movie. I guess I'm just not going to "get" it. [Edited on December 27, 2009 at 4:46 PM. Reason : plus, the happy-hippy themes of it seem a little trite."

This is how i felt before seeing it, but i turned out to like it a lot more than i was expecting.

There are 1 or 2 kumbaya-type scenes that will probably make you cringe (they made me cringe…), but they’re not entirely out of place.

12/28/2009 12:37:35 PM

The one part after she killed that hyena thing made me almost cringe, but luckily that was the only one.

12/28/2009 12:50:29 PM

Quote :

"I have a friend who thinks Master & Commander was the worst movie ever, while I think that movie is a great age of sail/Napoleonic flick"

Master and Commander is my favorite movie of all time! After seeing it, I picked up the books and am on book 19 of 21. Knowing the books makes the movie even more enjoyable.

They better make a second movie. Russell Crowe is up for it apparently; it's just a matter of getting OKs from the studio.

12/28/2009 1:42:42 PM

master and commander fucking ruled

12/28/2009 1:46:25 PM

Quote :

"I have a question: were the normal people CGI too or were they live-action?"

the normal people, avatars, and navi were all live action.

12/28/2009 3:50:56 PM

^ No. The Na'vi were all CGI.

12/28/2009 5:19:45 PM

no, they weren't.

The actors playing the navi acted out their scenes, and their faces were filmed separately as well to get high detail on the actors facial expressions and emotions during filming. They were painted over but they were not 100% CGI.

[Edited on December 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM. Reason : *]

12/28/2009 5:26:25 PM

who gives an F... If you have to ask, then it means the CGI worked.

12/28/2009 6:53:32 PM

i was under the impression that everything was CGI like that beowulf movie that came out like 2 years ago

12/28/2009 7:05:53 PM

It was for the most part all motion capture, meaning it was all live action but they just added the cgi on top of the live action.

Quote :

"and their faces were filmed separately as well to get high detail on the actors facial expressions and emotions during filming."

Actually I was under the impression the facial expressions were captured while they were acting everything out. They had cameras mounted in front of their faces and all their muscle points painted.

They used actual horses for the navi horse things and for the helicopter scenes they used just big metal boxes that moved. Apparently the set looked like a college drama class with all the random props and stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2_vB7zx_SQ

As you can see it's all acted out. Looks funny when there's no cgi on top of it, but it's all live action.

^^^NVM I misunderstood. Yeah they're faces were filmed separately by an additional camera while they were acting out to catch all the facial expressions.

[Edited on December 28, 2009 at 7:53 PM. Reason : .]

12/28/2009 7:44:51 PM

-- nm --

i should read entire posts before responding!

[Edited on December 28, 2009 at 8:15 PM. Reason : *]

12/28/2009 8:14:50 PM

That was unbelieva-frickin'-mazing...

12/28/2009 10:57:11 PM

^where did you see it?

12/28/2009 10:58:42 PM

Saw the 7:10 at IMAX

Got there early (6:15ish) though my friends laughed, but we were about the 40th in line. Great seats...great movie...loved it and would see again.

I mean the 3d was crazy! Whoever said it felt like you could just peak around the corner of the screen and see more of the world was right. I was thoroughly entertained and the quality of the 3d just made me become more involved and lose myself in the movie. Good story, CGI was WOW!, I'm really satisfied.

I was worried after seeing the preview, but psssssh on the preview...I was proven wrong.

12/28/2009 11:38:01 PM