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3/7/2008 2:31:35 PM

Quote :

"it would really nice if Falls Lake could be down to about 4 feet by the end of the weekend."

gunzz's wish came better than true

Falls Lake is 3.03 ft below full pond
Jordan Lake is 4.77 ft. above full pond

http://epec.saw.usace.army.mil/neuse.htm
http://epec.saw.usace.army.mil/capefear.htm
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2549997/

I think they should be very hesitant to cut back on restrictions since the farmers almanac calls for this to be the hottest summer in a 100 years or something along those lines. And I don't think we should ever go back to water your lawn when ever the hell you want, at best it should be the even / odd address #'s watering on specific days of the week.



We were comparing Jordan Lake and Falls Lake earlier in the thread and I came across these numbers for the drainage area.
Falls - 770 sq miles
Jordan - 1690 sq. miles





[Edited on March 10, 2008 at 10:28 PM. Reason : ]

3/10/2008 10:18:02 PM

watering your lawn is stupid as shit anyway

3/11/2008 12:10:59 AM

i totally agree. its fucking dumb to pay a fuckton of money for something and then actually keep it looking nice. just retarded!!!1

3/11/2008 12:15:41 AM

so like if you go over that one bridge it doesnt look like barron and mostly land, right? like that one bridge on the way to oxford...i think its like i-40 or something

3/11/2008 12:16:18 AM

People have no business watering plants with water purified for human consumption. Use grey water for that shit.

3/11/2008 12:17:13 AM

actually, i pay a water bill every 3 months, so it really is my business. they can always raise the price of the water. (but seriously, i have considered trying to save rainwater. but i dont think my HOA will allow me to attach a drum to my downspouts!)

and we're just a couple hundred miles from an ocean, where are the desalination plants? do they cost too much money or what? seems like with all the money they're using up here to link systems, they could build some crazy shit on the coast somewhere and pump the ocean dry!!1

3/11/2008 12:21:07 AM

from what i was told if it were cheaper to use desalination water we'd do it

3/11/2008 12:23:14 AM

yeah i figured there had to be some reason we didnt. i know GE has been pushing the idea lately.

the only thing about this whole drought thing that bothers me are the people who say you shouldnt be able to water your yard. i fortunately dont have to take care of my own yard because we all live in townhouses and all the landscaping is owned by all of us. but they put in thousands of dollars worth of stuff that hasnt really "taken" to the ground here yet, and its all starting to get really brown. the bulbs and all that came up again after the last rain, but they're already dying a few days later. thats a real concern.

no they shouldnt waste huge amounts of water on the stuff, but they really need to keep that shit alive, because thats a lot of money down the drain otherwise. plus, with the way real estate value is going, we dont need any dead landscaping. it doesnt take as much watering as you think to keep this stuff alive, i used gator bags to hold pondwater (not a real pond, manmade... came from a deep ass well. but i still wouldnt drink it, as it was reddish brown straight out of the valve) on trees for a number of summers at an old job i had. maybe a few gallons per week per bush. at the most. i dont think anyone wants to go for super green right now. just dont wanna replace all this stuff thats just a couple years old

3/11/2008 12:32:14 AM

Something of note:

Due to decreased revenues due to water conservation, the water company in Charlotte is planning a huge rate hike to compensate for this. There has even been a flat fee proposed that would charge everyone the same amount regardless of the water used/conserved. It is unlikely that such a flat fee would come into effect, but it is still an option on the table. What is more likely is simply a large addition to the rate.

3/11/2008 2:13:27 AM

Quote :

"no they shouldnt waste huge amounts of water on the stuff, but they really need to keep that shit alive, because thats a lot of money down the drain otherwise."

look, i know you're a self-centered idiot...that much has been obvious for YEARS...but do you really think that in a time of drought, the money you spent on GRASS is more important than the ability for thousands of people to drink fresh water? i mean, really?

under absolutely no circumstances is watering one's lawn or washing one's car in a MAJOR drought area acceptable...fuck the land of the free, those people might think they're special but they aren't

3/11/2008 8:21:55 AM

man you obviously didn't read the entire post.

he was merely referring to trees and shrubs which can thrive with only 5 to 7 gallons of water per week.

i agree sprinkling water just to keep fescue green right now is a stupid idea, but using gator bags or something of the like to save thousands of dollars worth of trees, especially if you are using water from rain barrels (just be sure you don't water anything you will eat from your roof due to asphaltic shingles) is not something that should be frowned upon.

btw, tall fescue should be outlawed south of the Mason-Dixon line. get you some bermuda once it starts raining again.

3/11/2008 8:35:32 AM

Quote :

"man you obviously didn't read the entire post."

yes, actually, i did...see below

Quote :

"he was merely referring to trees and shrubs which can thrive with only 5 to 7 gallons of water per week."

okay, assume 5 gallons per week per tree/shrub...times how many trees/shrubs? sure, his tiny little community might not command that much water, but if EVERY community thinks they should do it, then what? and what about communities who have less drought-resistant foliage, and think it's unfair that one community can have extra water for superficial reasons, but they can't? see my point? anyone who think it's as simple as using gator bags is deluding themselves or being intentionally obtuse

sure, using scummy pond water is a great idea! now where do we find enough surface water to use on the shrubs and trees (but only the special trees, remember!)? and who's going to haul it? and then, do you realize that surface water can be treated to be drinkable? or what about the water that becomes groundwater and is drinkable by those on well systems?

this whole thing is linked - whether on city water or well, whether using surface water or bottled water, it all comes out of (for the most part) the same basket and using water for something as frivolous as making sure your trees are pretty is downright stupid and irresponsible

the CLOSEST thing i can think of that would feasible would be (as mentioned above) using grey water...unfortunately, wake county in its infinite wisdom deemed grey water systems too much trouble to be allowed by law, so that's not gonna work

3/11/2008 8:47:27 AM

Quote :

"and we're just a couple hundred miles from an ocean, where are the desalination plants? do they cost too much money or what? seems like with all the money they're using up here to link systems, they could build some crazy shit on the coast somewhere and pump the ocean dry!!1"

just pumping the water up 400-500 feet or so to greensboro at the flow rate that would be required plus the losses in the pipe would be more expensive than what we are doing now

desalination costs a shit ton because the same reason that we are alive (waters ridiculous specific heat) is what makes it so expensive because you have to boil all of the water

3/11/2008 8:55:44 AM

i'd be the last one watering my grass. i would hope it dies so i don't have to go cut it.

[Edited on March 11, 2008 at 8:57 AM. Reason : and i've worked in lawncare/landscaping for the past two summers]

3/11/2008 8:56:56 AM

^exactly, i hate mowing haha

3/11/2008 9:57:42 AM

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/2561275/
State Reverses Policy to Allow Recycled Water for Flowers, Trees

Quote :

"State officials now say it's OK to water plants with used water. The News & Observer reported Wednesday that water used to bathe or wash dishes can now be recycled to water flowers and trees. State health officials had previously said use of such "gray water" was a threat to public safety. The state Department of Environment and Natural Resources plans to draft guidelines about how to safely use gray water. Department assistant secretary Robin Smith said laws that suggest gray water use is illegal will be altered. Smith said those laws mostly address how water systems for household appliances and sewer systems must be assembled. However, Smith said that piping bath water into your yard is still illegal and a health hazard"

I have bolded two lines from the quote to point out that they say it's ok to use used water from bathing, but then go on to say that using bath water is illegal. Do they mean to say that you can do it but you have to carry it out a bucket at a time rather than put a drain pipe to your yard?

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 10:26 AM. Reason : link]

3/12/2008 10:26:10 AM

probably.

3/12/2008 10:27:15 AM

probably.

3/12/2008 10:41:02 AM

reports now that we have enough water to get us to thanksgiving but conservation efforts should still be high priority

3/12/2008 10:47:47 AM

Quote :

"watering your lawn is stupid as shit anyway"

It really is if your lawn is established. I mean no one on my street waters their grass ever, it did not die off last summer, matter of fact it perks up nicely as soon as it rains.

I think lawn watering should be banned period unless your lawn has been planted less than 90 days ago in which case it will die if you don't.

3/12/2008 12:40:13 PM

nevermind

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 1:06 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2008 1:03:49 PM

Quote :

"conservation efforts should still be high priority"

not to get all hippie or anything, but the truth (in my mind) is that we're horribly wasteful, regardless of the conditions...low-flow showerheads and faucets should be standard on all new homes, not something you have to pick up additionally (because i think that "standard" is 2.5gpm for showerheads - though they call this low-flow - 2gpm on bathroom faucets, and 2.5gpm on kitchen faucets)

additionally, the local government shouldn't limit things like graywater systems...rather, they should encourage their use through education and tax incentives for new builders

i suspect there are very few other places in the world where our form of blatant and wanton lack of conservation would be tolerated...especially when it's not even remotely necessary in MOST cases (take a shower with a 2.5gpm showerhead and then one with a 1.5gpm...i seriously doubt the difference would be all that noticeable, let alone intolerable)

don't even get me started on how stupid tank-style hot water heaters are versus tankless models

3/12/2008 2:40:32 PM

I wanted tankless but they didn't have that as an upgrade option for my place.

3/12/2008 2:50:34 PM

oh, my place doesn't have them, either...it's one of those things that if i ever build my house i WILL be getting...and if i buy a house and have the spare funds, i'll be getting rid of the tank and putting the tankless in...they're amazing, and i don't think people realize how much more reliable and more efficient they are

3/12/2008 3:16:34 PM

i would get hot water on demand if my water heater died too, but until it dies i would think it foolish and ironic to throw away a working water heater. kind of defeats the purpose of not being wasteful.

when you buy a house you will see that there is enough stuff to fix and maintain without blowing money on stuff that already works

3/12/2008 4:05:29 PM

I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.

3/12/2008 4:44:39 PM

We have a tankless system at my house and I'd argue they can be much more inefficient than a standard tank.

Why?
Usually with a standard tank, you'll run out of hot water at some point, meaning you will probably get out of the shower.
With a tankless model you could drain Falls Lake if you wanted to...and never run out of hot water.

For those of us who enjoy long showers, the tankless models can be very tempting for that specific reason. Just takes some self-discipline to take short showers, and then they're pretty efficient.

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 7:20 PM. Reason : ]

3/12/2008 7:19:38 PM

^ yeah, but that's not the system that's inefficient, that's the user...the amount of energy used to heat the water (and the subsequent water that's saved as a result of not having to wait) makes the tankless systems more efficient

3/12/2008 7:44:59 PM

I used to think a tankless system would be great, but now am much less sure about it. My gf's parents had a natural gas unit installed when their house was build and it seems to take a lot longer to get warm water at the sink than anywhere else I have been.

3/12/2008 10:00:38 PM

Yeah, but wouldn't it stay hot indefinitely once it was hot?

3/12/2008 10:16:06 PM

yeah, but you waste more water waiting for it to get hot. But one the bright side, you waste less energy keeping a large amount of water hot and you never run out as long as you have power or gas.

I think the most energy efficient option is a tankless heater at each water source. This of course is more costly than 1 central source . . . but you don't have as much losses with the water cooling in the pipes.

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 10:36 PM. Reason : ]

3/12/2008 10:33:20 PM

Quote :

"I think the most energy efficient option is a tankless heater at each water source."

that's actually the type of system i'm talking about...i know you can get centralized tankless systems, but i prefer systems broken up into smaller units...it's not significantly more expensive than a centralized unit, and it's MUCH more efficient in terms of power and water

3/13/2008 8:48:27 AM

Quote :

"For those of us who enjoy long showers, the tankless models can be very tempting for that specific reason. "

Slowly raises hand...

3/13/2008 9:11:08 AM

we need that geothermal system shit, gg region

3/13/2008 11:51:49 AM

How would one go about reclaiming gray water? My lawn basically died last summer after the water restrictions hit, and I certainly don't think I deserve special treatment, but I'd like to be able to restart and water that shit somehow.

3/13/2008 12:41:55 PM

^ the only easy thing to do is buy a large tub to stand in while you shower...when you're done, whatever ended up in the tub is graywater and you can haul it out to water your plants...everything else requires a little more work

3/13/2008 12:46:43 PM

That doesn't sound easy at all.

3/13/2008 12:51:10 PM

you can install a grey water septic system with an automatic pump for irrigation, but thats $$

3/13/2008 1:15:31 PM

Quote :

"additionally, the local government shouldn't limit things like graywater systems...rather, they should encourage their use through education and tax incentives for new builders "

thats not exactly fair.. being able to water your lawn with graywater should be incentive enough. someone that waters their lawn with graywater should not get a tax benefit over the neighbor that doesnt water at all.

as for builders.. they can charge a premium for homes with graywater systems.. that should be incentive enough. it wont work in neighborhoods where the goal is low-priced housing and some builders would never do it (because a lot of them are cheap bastards).. but if a buyer wants it, i'm sure the builder makes out on the deal.

i think there should be some sort of permanent restriction on watering lawns, whether it be a certain volume (perhaps per land area) or just limiting it to certain days. this will force the people that want to water their lawns [more than the restrictions allow] to use graywater

3/13/2008 1:43:49 PM

Quote :

"someone that waters their lawn with graywater should not get a tax benefit over the neighbor that doesnt water at all."

agreed...that wasn't my point, though re-reading it shows me how it might have come across like that...below was more what i was getting at

Quote :

"as for builders.. they can charge a premium for homes with graywater systems.. that should be incentive enough."

on the surface, i agree...but the simple fact of the matter is that americans as a whole don't give a crap about things like graywater systems, at least not until it starts to affect them (say, a drought) and they realize their pretty trees, sod, and gardener-sculpted flowers might take a hit...i don't care about the builders themselves, i just want to see these sorts of things become more commonplace, and if that means that the builders get to pocket a bit more money, i'm okay with that (though don't mistake me for thinking they deserve it or that they're doing it for humanitarian reasons...they don't and they aren't)

Quote :

"it wont work in neighborhoods where the goal is low-priced housing and some builders would never do it (because a lot of them are cheap bastards)"

honestly, these are the kinds of neighborhoods that would benefit MOST from it (i do recognize, however, that you're right, though)...i know this is anti-american, but if they used the rich neighborhoods to charge the premium and then didn't add the cost to the lower-priced neighborhoods, i'm okay with that (and yes, i know there's no way in hell that'll happen, and that, technically, it's not "fair")

Quote :

"but if a buyer wants it, i'm sure the builder makes out on the deal."

without a doubt...there are very few things that can't be had for mere money, and for each of those things, there's a greedy bastard middleman who's more than willing to stick the buyer in the ass while you had them money for the service

again, these are hopes/dreams/pointless musings of mine...the technology and methods have been around for decades, and have been implemented on a fairly large scale for almost as long...it is out of ignorance, laziness, and a general feeling of self-importance that we (as americans) don't already have them in place, but i suspect that time is slowly coming around - first was the .com bubble, then was the real estate bubble, and i suspect that the next bubble on our journey is the green bubble, in which people will start investing in green technologies if for no other reason to be hip and cool (which, to me, is better than nothing)

3/13/2008 2:15:51 PM

How about charging a price for water that is equal to the cost of securing more water?????

Then people can decide for themselves whether they want to use graywater or whatever other conservation means are out there.

3/15/2008 8:49:28 AM

Falls Lake up to 84% full thanks to the rain over the weekend

lets hope that the rain showers in the middle of the week will bump this up to close to 90%

3/17/2008 8:03:42 AM

how many feet is it down from full?

3/17/2008 8:25:02 AM

^^ORLY?

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/2591127/

3/17/2008 4:17:42 PM

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nc/nwis/uv?cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&period=3&site_no=02087182

^ O RLY.

.4 feet = 4.8 Inches of higher level. And it's closer to .5 feet or 6 inches up.

No, it's not the multiple foot jump of the other week, but it is not "nothing" as WRAL claims.

[Edited on March 17, 2008 at 5:24 PM. Reason : typo]

3/17/2008 5:23:11 PM

Quote :

"Weekend Rain No Help for Falls Lake"

when the lake was close to 9 feet below normal, an inch or two is NOT very significant.

[Edited on March 17, 2008 at 6:01 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2008 6:00:30 PM

^ Except it was 2.5 feet short before the weekend
If you want to say it was 9 feet short, then we've had a lot more rain since that point, and it's raised about 7 feet since then

I'm not saying the drought is over mind you.

And 6 is not "one or two", it is in fact, six.



[Edited on March 17, 2008 at 6:07 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2008 6:05:29 PM

Lady, i'm a geologist and a science teacher. I know a thing or two about falls lake.

3/17/2008 6:07:41 PM

Then exactly how are any of the numbers or facts I've stated to you wrong?

3/17/2008 6:08:51 PM