How competitive is William and Mary and/or Washington and Lee

[Edited on October 24, 2006 at 10:35 PM. Reason : is it cool to post the new page # in old school?]

10/24/2006 10:34:57 PM

^admissions or as a student body? I looked at both for law school and thought the atmosphere at each was fairly collegial. As far as admissions, their standards are equivalent to schools in the top 20-25 range.

William and Mary median undergraduate GPA is 3.64 and the median LSAT score is 165.

Wash & Lee median undergraduate GPA is is 3.70 and the median LSAT is 166.

[Edited on October 24, 2006 at 10:47 PM. Reason : ]

10/24/2006 10:41:46 PM

W&M is incredibly competitive

Washington and Lee is too, actually.

10/24/2006 10:42:07 PM

partial....where do you find this info? on each website individually or is there one with a collection of this data?

10/24/2006 11:15:33 PM

It is on each school's website. You can also subscribe to usnews.com's law school rankings at http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/lawindex_brief.php.

The LSAC has the same information on its website. The LSAC also provides a handy tool to predict your likelihood of admission to a particular school based on GPA and LSAT score. See http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearch/Search3.aspx?SidString=.

[Edited on October 24, 2006 at 11:51 PM. Reason : ]

10/24/2006 11:51:38 PM

In my experience, those ranges aren't extraordinarily reliable.

10/26/2006 2:51:35 AM

I don't know if anyone has posted this link in this thread but http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/ is a pretty good site. Worth a look anyway.

10/26/2006 6:34:28 PM

^ worth a look but remember that it's selective reporting. so the ranges might be skewed upwards a little...

10/27/2006 10:21:20 AM

for anyone interested there is a Law School Fair Tuesday in Talley....I suppose I am going to go get my feet wet at this event.

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/prelaw/

87 law schools attending

10/27/2006 10:35:24 PM

^ I went to those back when I was at State. Great way to get a lot of information from different schools, as well as speak to representatives from those schools.

10/28/2006 1:32:50 PM

Campbell has just publically announced that they are considering moving the law school to Raleigh. Its been in discussion since the New Dean took office, however, they just did a segment on the news.

10/30/2006 6:13:17 PM

Damn, that'd be huge for Campbell.

10/30/2006 6:14:10 PM

as part of NC State, or as part of Campbell?

10/30/2006 6:14:26 PM

Part of Campbell, but separate from the Buies Creek Campus. I have heard that they are in serious talks with the city to get certain property donated or leased very cheaply (like Charlotte did with Johnson and Wells). I do know that they are considering the Wachovia Building after the Supreme Court moves out. Parking would be a nightmare.

The soonest this could occur would be 2 years. Honestly, I kinda like Buies Creek. Its a great place to go to law school because there is nothing going on and everything is so CHEAP. However, Kivett Hall is falling down and will take too long to renovate.

Campbell is also hosting the National Trial Team Competition in Raleigh this year. That will be huge for recognition.

10/30/2006 6:18:40 PM

You may like Buies Creek but just think about it:
"A law school in Raleigh". It's like a promotion. Terrible news for Harnett County, though.

10/30/2006 6:23:13 PM

That puts a new spin on things.....So if I hypothetically got in and went in the spring of 08 and they moved in the fall of 08....would I have to move to Raleigh? Or would I finish on campus in BC?

10/30/2006 10:18:17 PM

You can't start law school in the Spring. You would be in the Fall class of the following year.

If the school decides to move to Raleigh, the WHOLE school moves (all three years). The ABA requirements for a law school library make it too costly to operate in two locations.

10/31/2006 11:53:01 AM

hey guys, question over speeding tickets...

I just got a ticket coming back home. Is that something I have to report to my law school? And that's not going to affect admittance into the bar is it?

Now onto the more important question. Should I just request continuances to get this dropped? How nice are magistrates, and do they drop tickets on a regular basis? Thanks...

11/3/2006 5:52:24 PM

I am in the clinical program at Howard and we are admitted to practice in DC. We had to have records of all convictions including traffic. One ticket should not affect your admittance tho...

11/4/2006 1:05:26 AM

If there is any doubt, disclose the violation. Something minor like a traffic infraction isn't going to reflect poorly on you. On the other hand, saying you are violation free, and aren't in fact, can cause a lot of problems. Honesty is more valued by the bar than driving skill.

Different schools have different expectations on minor stuff. Some schools I applied to wanted traffic citations, others weren't concerned with them. Continuing duties to inform are commonplace, in which case, you must report anything after admission and enrollment that you would have had to report when applying. If the standard is unclear, ask for clarification.

11/4/2006 12:37:14 PM

Anybody else take the MPRE yesterday?

11/5/2006 3:26:41 PM

I did, that shit was harder than I thought it would be.

11/6/2006 12:04:56 AM

depending where you got the ticket and how bad it is, you most likely need a lawyer. in my limited experience, Magistrates usually will not touch a ticket unless they know you and most ADAs won't give an improper speedometer to a law student they have not worked with.

Its worth a shot. While I am not licensed to practice law or give legal advice, I would not take a simple deduction (depending where the ticket was located). Best bet is to "lawyer" up.

11/9/2006 8:36:37 PM

i got the ticket in forsyth and was hoping that the county DA would be down with wake law.... don't know how far that's going to run, but i'm now looking for lawyers in the area.

11/9/2006 11:47:12 PM

dude I wouldn't worry about a speeding ticket. there are people in law school with drug convictions and shit. you'll be fine.

11/10/2006 1:36:07 AM

yeah, i figured that out, but it's the insurance now that's going to kill me...

11/10/2006 10:43:41 AM

First, find out if Forsyth will give out an improper speedometer and such. I have gotten an IE for 17 over. Its worth a shot to go and ask. if not, ask your professors who they will recommend. Most likely, it will be a recent grad and hopefully will cut you a deal.

11/10/2006 5:07:31 PM

to all of you engineers and people who took the GRE. how does the LSAT compare to the FE and/or GRE? i passed the FE and did very well on the GRE. also note that I am 2 years out of grad school so I haven't studied a lot during that time. i currently work in a lab doing research, but will be moving on once the grant is up (about 1.5 - 2 years). right now I am debating whether to go the PhD route or go to law school, but I have time to think about it.

11/11/2006 8:59:47 AM

with the FE, you never really feel super rushed for time, but with the LSAT you may. that and the obvious differences such as the actual material you're tested on are really it. the gre is pretty easy compared to the lsat, imo.

11/11/2006 11:44:08 AM

get your PhD... best advice i can give.

11/11/2006 3:53:56 PM

yeah, as an engineer, you might actually lose money and take a pay cut by going to law school. While you can evidentually end up in pat law, my friend said most firms will only take lawyers with 3 years experience. The only way to get that experience is to spend 3 years post law school in the Patent Office in VA.

I have not personally looked at any pat law firms and have no idea if this is the case.

11/12/2006 5:23:09 PM

A dumb question....

When is it recommended to take the LSAT?

Is there a certain time or can I choose to take it anytime?

Thanks!

11/18/2006 9:40:43 AM

i recommend December at the latest if you want to go the following Fall.

Preferably October though.

11/18/2006 11:14:24 AM

^^Take it in June. That will allow you to apply earlier than if you take it in October. Plus, if you screw up bad in June you can take it again in October.

11/18/2006 1:03:24 PM

Take it in June or October, whichever you are less busy around. If you work heavily in the summer, then October might be better. If your coursework and activities are heavy, take it in June.

11/18/2006 4:32:22 PM

i always heard the rumor that the october test was easier... don't know if that's true or not, but i got a full 5 points higher on my test than my diags when i took it in october.

11/18/2006 6:23:32 PM

^The raw score to scaled score conversation ratio is adjusted for the overall difficulty of a particular exam so it doesn't matter when you sit for it.

11/19/2006 1:08:40 AM

How would you describe the LSAT? (difficulty-wise)

11/19/2006 2:20:54 PM

that's an impossible question to answer

i know people who thought it was easy and did well

i know people who thought it was easy and didn't do well

i know people who thought it was hard and did well

i know people who thought it was hard and didn't do well

11/19/2006 2:50:10 PM

^^ people say that the test wouldn't be so hard if there weren't the time constraint, and i agree. if i had 5 more minutes, i think i could have gotten that 170+ score. but, it's really just a test on how you think more than what you know. practice, practice, practice.


^^^ so i guess then i sat with people that weren't prepared? i don't know.... i forgot that the scores are scaled to the raw score.


[Edited on November 19, 2006 at 5:49 PM. Reason : a]

11/19/2006 5:47:46 PM

^I think people have just bought into the myth. Besides, most people will think the LSAT is difficult regardless of when they sit for it. The median LSAT score for schools in the top 25 is about a 165, which is roughly the 94th percentile....so only 6% of all test takers score a 165 or higher.

The question of whether the October exam is easier was looked at awhile back and it turns out that sometimes the October exam is more difficult and sometimes the June exam is more difficult. But because the conversation ratio is adjusted to account for differences between exams it really doesn't matter. People should take it when they feel they are well prepared.

[Edited on November 19, 2006 at 6:25 PM. Reason : ]

11/19/2006 6:24:41 PM

outlines? when should we be done with them and work on past exam questions?

11/25/2006 11:37:53 PM

outlines are a good way to study, the making of the outline (i.e. learning the law by making the outline) is actually more important than using the outline on the exam.

the best way to do it is to have your outlines ready to go and be working old exams a couple of days before the exam.

oh, and commercial outlines (emmanuel's and crunchtime) are worth their weight in gold. if you missed anything during the year they can fill out the holes. also, crunchtime has flowcharts which i highly recommend. goodluck.

11/26/2006 12:21:05 PM

I really like crunchtime supplements for first year review. However, Example and Explanations are my favorite to study by. I have rocked several exams by simply going over the problems in the book the day before. I also study other people's outlines that I trust instead of making my own. (we can't have outlines on exams and i have really smart friends)

Good luck!

11/26/2006 8:09:16 PM

AHHHH too many objective v. subjective tests and where do i find this reasonable prudent person? I've yet to meet him or her.

11/26/2006 11:06:46 PM

people are really freaking out around here

like studying nonstop all day everyday, and our first exam isn't for over a week

everyone's on edge, in a tizzy, and i'm just sort of hangin loose. i refuse to hinge my life and mood on a test. when it comes time, i'll be ready, but i've always been the type to burn out when i structure my entire life around preparing for a test.


should i be freaking out more? I mean, i plan on studying hardcore, no doubt, but who is the weird one here, the ones who are almost in tears and on edge worrying themselves, or the one that is pretty much carefree about it?

11/27/2006 12:35:36 PM

any of you 2 and 3L's want to recommend a good supplement for understanding Future Interests?

Is examples and illustrations the best?

11/27/2006 1:24:53 PM

yeah, the E&E's are solid... that got me through Civ Pro single-handedly

11/27/2006 3:48:00 PM

just finished the penultimate semester of my schooling! I need a serious break from learning. if it wasnt for those damned CLEs

12/5/2006 4:32:52 PM

^why are you taking CLEs?

12/5/2006 8:27:08 PM