btw, I mentioned the perv thing not to say that gays are perverts or are more likely to be ones. Rather, I mentioned it because that's the main fear presented: gays will be pervy in the showers and make people uncomfortable.

2/2/2010 8:53:53 PM

^^Don't they already sleep/rape the females in combat? How is this different?

and by 'they' i mean some soldiers not all. Just saying that sleeping around and rape exists in combat zones regardless of sexual orientation.

[Edited on February 2, 2010 at 8:55 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2010 8:55:03 PM

I am so glad this man is not president (not to mention that Palin is not riding vice)

2/3/2010 3:44:40 AM

mccain just seems to be spiteful. seems to be against things that he has been for in the past just because the obama admin is for it.

2/3/2010 8:36:24 AM

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/powell-favors-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/?hp

Quote :

"February 3, 2010, 11:12 am Powell Favors Repeal of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ By PETER BAKER Gen. Colin L. Powell, who as the nation’s top military officer in the 1990s opposed allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, switched gears today and threw his support behind efforts to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law he helped shepherd in. “In the almost 17 years since the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ legislation was passed, attitudes and circumstances have changed,” General Powell said in a statement issued by his office. He added: “I fully support the new approach presented to the Senate Armed Services Committee this week by Secretary of Defense Gates and Admiral Mullen.”"

2/3/2010 1:29:34 PM

Quote :

"Is your argument that if we go to fast on allowing gays to serve in the military without having to lie to their commanding officers about themselves, then next thing you know straight men are going to be perving in the women's restroom? "

Are you asserting that straight men perving in the women's restroom is somehow different than gay men perving in the mens restroom? I thought we were looking to end the gender discrimination. Which one is it? Maybe you'll just flip flop again like Gen. Powell when it suits you.

There is also the issue of 2 consenting gay men (no perving at all) and the resulting issues that brings. If it's not ok for men and women to be together (clearly because of sexual orientation) then why would it be ok for 2 men. This is a buracracy after all. We will have to have policy and procedure for everything.

But if it makes you feel any better you can go on thinking I am some kind of gay bashing homophobe that's been living under a rock in the backwoods of West Virginia.

Quote :

"My hope is that they can get this done before Nov. The GOP are going to make big gains this election, after which a legislative solution might be much more difficult. "

Lately this statement seems to be coming up a lot from dems on multiple topics. Quick we need to rush this through before we are voted out by the majority that don't like the policies we are rushing through. Maybe if you guys would slow down and think something through before you jump in with both feet we might have a different situation on our hands. Or just keep throwing stuff up on the wall and see what sticks. Let me know what works out, I'll be under my rock.

2/4/2010 12:04:21 AM

Quote :

"But if it makes you feel any better you can go on thinking I am some kind of gay bashing homophobe that's been living under a rock in the backwoods of West Virginia."

WTF? I never said this. I just didn't think your DADT repeal slippery slope argument held much water.

2/4/2010 1:48:35 AM

Quote :

"Maybe if you guys would slow down and think something through"

Quote :

"I just didn't think "

There's a shocker. Do you have a plan for policy and procedure after this is repealed or are you in favor of creating some kind of unisex military where men & women, gay & straight, all serve together without restriction? I think we've got enough evidence to support that that isn't a good idea.

2/4/2010 10:18:25 AM

Even though I support repealing DADT, you bring up some good points that deserve consideration.

Quote :

"Are you asserting that straight men perving in the women's restroom is somehow different than gay men perving in the mens restroom?"

I don't think it's much different, but as it stands now, you could already have gay men "perving" (and I'm going to take this to mean checking out other dudes' genitalia at the urinals or similar behavior, lol) in the men's restroom.

Quote :

"There is also the issue of 2 consenting gay men (no perving at all) and the resulting issues that brings. If it's not ok for men and women to be together (clearly because of sexual orientation) then why would it be ok for 2 men."

That does seem like it could be an issue. If you spend a lot of time working/being around someone, and there's mutual attraction, a sexual relationship is likely to form. So, the question becomes, can you have that relationship while remaining professional? My gut says no, and I don't have a solution for this, but I don't think it means we should exclude gays from service or require them to lie about who they are. The idea of a "gay only" battalion troubles me for many reasons, though.

2/4/2010 10:44:35 AM

Quote :

"That does seem like it could be an issue. If you spend a lot of time working/being around someone, and there's mutual attraction, a sexual relationship is likely to form. So, the question becomes, can you have that relationship while remaining professional? My gut says no, and I don't have a solution for this, but I don't think it means we should exclude gays from service or require them to lie about who they are. "

I agree with you there. "Times have changed" Maybe this time we can come up with a solution that isn't half baked, but I have my doubts due to the fact that some people want to "just push things through."

Quote :

"The idea of a "gay only" battalion troubles me for many reasons, though. "

Even this is not viable, not only for the reasons you aluded to, but because it still doesn't resolve the issue of physical relationships within that battalion. The only statistical answer would be to place one gay man in with a group of women and that doesn't make any sense.

I don't have the answer, but I think that someone should before a move is made. After all, what are politicians paid for?

2/4/2010 2:00:27 PM

Quote :

"It's simple: treat a guy being a perv towards guys the same way you treat a guy being a perv towards girls. Tell the rest of the fuck to get the fuck over it. They already shower together naked. Knowing there are gays in the shower with them. Just fucking DO IT already"

I don't get to say this often, but I agree with aaronburro.

You don't need a complicated special set of rules like a gays only battalion, or make the gays identify themselves and then place them all 1 to a otherwise female battalion. (So far as I know, other western military forces have not gone down such convoluted paths)

Just use sanctions against inappropriate fraternization that uniformly apply to all soldiers. If someone breaks those rules, punish them, whether it was 2 girls, 2 guys, or a guy & a girl. Besides, the military culture is strong enough that it is going to take care of a lot of this I imagine.

Countries that allow gays in the military:

Quote :

" * 2.1 Argentina * 2.2 Australia * 2.3 Austria * 2.4 Belgium * 2.5 Bermuda * 2.6 Brazil * 2.7 Canada * 2.8 Czech Republic * 2.9 Denmark * 2.10 Estonia * 2.11 Finland * 2.12 France * 2.13 Germany * 2.14 Ireland * 2.15 Israel * 2.16 Italy * 2.17 Lithuania * 2.18 Luxembourg * 2.19 The Netherlands * 2.20 New Zealand * 2.21 Norway * 2.22 Peru * 2.23 Philippines * 2.24 Romania * 2.25 Slovenia * 2.26 South Africa * 2.27 Spain * 2.28 Sweden * 2.29 Switzerland * 2.30 United Kingdom * 2.31 Uruguay "

Countries that don't:

Quote :

" * Cuba * China * Egypt * Greece[1] * Iran * Jamaica * North Korea * Pakistan * Russia * Saudi Arabia * Serbia * Singapore * South Korea[2] * Syria * Turkey[3] * Venezuela * Yemen * United States "

-wikipedia

Look at the company we're keeping, and then look at where the rest of the western world is.

2/4/2010 2:39:36 PM

Quote :

"I don't get to say this often, but I agree with aaronburro. You don't need a complicated special set of rules like a gays only battalion, or make the gays identify themselves and then place them all 1 to a otherwise female battalion. (So far as I know, other western military forces have not gone down such convoluted paths) Just use sanctions against inappropriate fraternization that uniformly apply to all soldiers. If someone breaks those rules, punish them, whether it was 2 girls, 2 guys, or a guy & a girl. Besides, the military culture is strong enough that it is going to take care of a lot of this I imagine. "

Do you read or just post? You just argued against something that was already stated to be a ridiculous option.

To quote Obama, i don't understand why you insist on "using a hatchet where you need a scalpel." You can't "Just Fucking Do It Already." If it were such a non-issue then men and women would currently be serving beside eachother.

And as far as you list goes I wouldn't give it much credit for proving whos knows how to run a military. Of your List, 9 of the top 11 Military Powers by number of troops are on the list with us. I stop at 11 because #12 isn't on either of your lists.

But maybe you are one of those people who still thinks we are just arguing about discrimination. I think we have all agreed that DADT should be repealed, the next question is how.

2/4/2010 3:56:33 PM

Quote :

"If it were such a non-issue then men and women would currently be serving beside eachother."

Well, they kind of are in most circumstances. They serve together on navy ships, they fly combat missions together in the army and air force...

2/4/2010 10:49:39 PM

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/14/jones-on-dadt-times-have-changed/?fbid=CeukDESvFZn

Quote :

"Jones on DADT: 'Times have changed' Washington (CNN) – One of President Obama’s top national security advisers gave his support Sunday to the eventual repeal of the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy governing gay and lesbian service members. Appearing on State of the Union, Ret. Marine Corps Gen. James Jones told CNN Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley that he supported the positions laid out recently in congressional testimony by Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Earlier this month, Gates informed Congress that the Pentagon is taking the first steps toward repealing the policy and Mullen said it was his personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly was the right thing to do. “This is a policy that has to evolve with the social norms of what’s acceptable and what’s not. I think times have changed. I think I was very much taken by Adm. Mullen’s view that young men and women who wish to serve their country should not have to lie in order to do that,” Jones told Crowley. The Obama aide also noted that the president has signaled his desire to have the policy changed. Jones also told Crowley that in his 40 years in the military, he’d seen similar changes in military policy where similar concerns about national security had been raised but proved to be unfounded. “I’ve served my country in uniform since 1967,” Jones said. “In that period we’ve covered racial questions, racial integration. We’ve covered the integration of women into the armed forces. People suggested that that would be a national security problem if we did both of those things. Turned out be, as a matter of fact, a force multiplier by doing those things. And I grew up in a generation where people said that if you integrate members of the gay community, that will be a national security problem. That will probably prove itself to be false as well.” “I think,” Jones also said Sunday, “that if I judge the response of the population to this [policy change] this is an idea that we will solve and we will solve responsibly.” Jones served in the Marines from early 1967 until his retirement from active duty in early 2007. Only Congress can repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” In his first State of the Union address last month, President Obama called on Capitol Hill to get rid of the policy which dates from the Clinton administration in the early 1990’s. "

They're still talking about it, wonder how long until they start doing something about it?

2/14/2010 12:05:44 PM

Quote :

"As the government weighs the repealing of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” wonder where the American public stands? Wonkette reports that the latest polls show that a majority of Americans support “gay men and lesbians” serving openly in the military, but less than half support “homosexuals” doing so. There you have it, a wise and decisive answer."

http://wonkette.com/413668/gay-men-and-lesbians-can-serve-but-none-of-those-rotten-homosexuals

2/15/2010 8:42:45 AM

I saw some numbers on public policy polling recently saying more North Carolinians are in favor of repealing DADT than not, including 59% of NC independents. The GOP like McCain needs to let this go as a wedge issue or they'll be driving people away.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 12:00:24 PM

http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2010/02/21/ap/politics/us_military_gays_petraeus.txt

Quote :

"Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:45 AM EST The U.S. commander overseeing troops in Iraq and Afghanistan says he's not sure that troops in the field care about the sexual orientation of fellow service members. Gen. David Petraeus (peh-TRAY'-uhs) says he's served alongside gays and lesbians, and what matters are someone's skills and smarts. Petraeus tells NBC's "Meet The Press" that he supports Defense Secretary Robert Gates' plan to study how the ban could be repealed."

2/21/2010 12:34:58 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35523891/ns/us_news-military/

Quote :

"Top general: Gays should be allowed to serve Gen. Odierno says he has no issue ‘as long as we are still able to fight’"

McCain said he'd support a DADT repeal if the military top leaders said they were cool with it. They did. McCain still opposed DADT repeal. And now the list of military top leaders signing on to the idea of repeal is growing.

As far as relating this to NC politics, all 3 senate democratic candidates are for ending DADT. Cal Cunningham, who has served in Iraq himself, repeated his support for ending DADT in a radio interview last night.

Incumbent GOP Senator Richard Burr won a seat in Congress in 1994 and has been there ever since, and is pretty much in line with McCain on this. Its time for some new blood in that seat.

2/22/2010 4:14:12 PM

Only traitors don't support the military.

2/22/2010 4:23:07 PM

Quote :

" "

lmao

2/22/2010 4:35:57 PM

seem to me gays perfect for the military. they don't make military brats, they don't leave a bunch of bastards having to be given asylum when they occupy somewhere. increased camaraderie, they love the uniforms and dancing around in formation and role playing-all big military skills. I expect they more dedicated and professional than ur avg hetero. U think the family-unit brainwashing effect strong now? wait till u see a whole barracks full of gay lovers go into battle, now THAT be some unit cohesion!

2/23/2010 5:26:25 PM

More change is in the air....

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/navy-end-ban-women-serving-aboard-submarines-congress/story?id=9921378&page=1

2/23/2010 5:30:48 PM

^ What was the logic behind not allowing it before?

The most logical explanation that I heard was unexpected pregnancies causing long missions to be scrubbed, but there are some more dubious rumors floating around.

2/23/2010 6:27:41 PM

Quote :

"^ What was the logic behind not allowing it before? The most logical explanation that I heard was unexpected pregnancies causing long missions to be scrubbed, but there are some more dubious rumors floating around."

I had always heard a few things as justifications:

A pregnant submariner is a much bigger deal than a pregnant sailor on an aircraft carrier. To get someone off of a submarine requires it to surface, or do things that would give away its position. You can get a sailor off of an aircraft carrier without compromising mission security. If a sub surfaces or is detected, that can be a big deal.

The spaces are also significantly more cramped, and there is simply no reasonable way to retrofit the subs we have. Minimal accommodations for officers may be possible on a few subs, but overall it's just not possible. The cramped conditions overall are simply a different environment than even the most cramped surface ship.

There is no way in hell I would feel comfortable in that environment with a female bunkmate, and the whole thing is just asking for trouble....in an environment that, of all places in the Navy, cannot tolerate any disruption.

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 7:33 PM. Reason : a]

2/23/2010 7:32:30 PM

^ to ease they transition they're starting with officers, who already have their own quarters. Also the first integrated subs will be boomers b/c they have a lot more space than fast attacks.

Other countries already have women on subs. Norway even does integrated hotracking - 3 Sailors sharing 2 bunks on a schedule. but they're much more laid back about gender and nudity than the US and I think the transition will be harder here. we'd have to have separate berthing and bathrooms for women. that's a long way from happening on the enlisted side.

2/24/2010 5:38:22 PM

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/25/brown-lgbt-dadt/

Quote :

"By Amanda Terkel on Feb 25th, 2010 at 8:00 pm Gordon Brown Calls On America To Repeal DADT, Calls UK LGBT Soldiers ‘The Pride Of Our Country’ As conservatives in the United States try to argue that repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell (DADT) would lead to all sorts of horrors like an increase in “body art,” natural disasters, and a reinstatement of the draft, British citizens are serving comfortably alongside openly gay men and women."

2/26/2010 12:38:06 AM

For those of you asserting that "other countries can do it, we should too"
Take a que from some of the military leaders and stop comparing apples to oranges.

Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey was recently quoted as saying

Quote :

"I do have serious concerns about the impact of the repeal of the law on a force that's fully engaged in two wars and has been at war for eight and a half years. We just don't know the impacts on readiness and military effectiveness. "

Navy Admiral Gary Roughhead

Quote :

"Regardless what other nation’s navies have experienced if they’ve allowed open service, only a survey of American sailors and their families will give decision-makers the right understanding of how to proceed, Roughead said. "

Nathaniel Frank of the Palm Center after speaking with Navy Admiral Gary Roughead

Quote :

"Frank also mentioned looking at foreign militaries and how repealing the ban on gays and lesbians has changed their operations. Roughead said that would be a possibility, while adding that "every military is different than any other military, and as we make serious policy decisions, we have to make sure that we understand the force and that we're making those decisions for the force that will have that policy to deal with." "

Quote :

"Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway told Senate lawmakers Thursday he opposes permitting gays and lesbians to serve openly in the Marine Corps, asking rhetorically whether repealing the law known as “don’t ask, don’t tell” would help the fighting readiness of the Marine Corps. "

I think this excerpt from a conversation with Navy Secretary Ray Mabus sums it up nicely

Quote :

"Mabus cautioned senators that his view on open service was his personal opinion. He also said that if a Defense Department investigation finds that allowing open service would hurt the readiness of the Navy Department, he would oppose it. Still, Mabus said he thought open service was the right course for the military to take. “I think it’s important to remember that we have gays in the military right now. It’s only a question of whether they can serve openly or not, and I think the chairman of the joint chiefs set out that case pretty well,” he said. “Next, I think that it’s important to distinguish between orientation and conduct. We have lots of rules in the military, in the Navy and Marine Corps, about conduct and heterosexual conduct, that we enforce very stringently and very specifically. And I think that we’ve got to be careful to separate orientation, which is what we’re talking about, and conduct.” "

As I have stated before, I don't think that many are arguing against the actual repeal - the discussion is geared toward how. But many of you want to make this a political battle and point fingers at the "insert old white guy" who doesn't believe in basic equality for everyone.

2/26/2010 12:13:31 PM

^My most recent posting was about an old white guy, a country's head of state in fact (so he is as much "the man" as anyone else), in favor of DADT repeal. So far as I can tell from a cursory glance at this page, you were the first to introduce race to this discussion.

2/26/2010 12:56:31 PM

Quick! there's a post that actually makes some sense, use your powers of selective reading and distract everyone with some off topic post and play the race card!

Seriously?

Your last post was clearly a shot at conservatives and the post prior to that was stating that it is time for some "new blood" in GOP Richard Burr's Senate Seat.

You took a sterotype and turned it into a race issue? You can google Grand Old White Party (GOP) it's pretty common.

But now that we've distracted from the intent of my post and it's safely further up the page, you can continue posting your selective daily news articles without fear of actual discussion of the issue.

2/26/2010 2:00:57 PM

Quote :

"Navy Admiral Gary Roughhead Quote : "Regardless what other nation’s navies have experienced if they’ve allowed open service, only a survey of American sailors and their families will give decision-makers the right understanding of how to proceed, Roughead said. " "

An Admiral wants to take a survey of enlisted men's opinions on a policy? This has to be a first.

2/26/2010 2:14:03 PM

^^The senate candidate that I mentioned by name, most of the military leaders I referenced, and the head of state I referenced are old white guys in favor of DADT repeal.

How the heck does that constitute a "point fingers at" the "old white guy" strategy, or playing the race card?

[Edited on February 26, 2010 at 2:45 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2010 2:22:05 PM

^^ it is actually a first. They are taking new steps and making an effort to find a real solution to this repeal. It seems like a good start for progress.


^I don't understand how you fail so hard to understand what the grown-ups are saying. In no way were my comments directed towards the quoted military leaders. Look back and your posts and read the slant put on the terms GOP and conservative. My comments were directed at the connotation put on those terms.

Quote :

"As conservatives in the United States try to argue that repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell (DADT) would lead to all sorts of horrors like an increase in “body art,” natural disasters, and a reinstatement of the draft, British citizens are serving comfortably alongside openly gay men and women.""

I can't us a simple reference to a very common stereotype without you misreading the situation entirely. Then you try to turn it into some kind of a race issue to distract from the topic at hand, which you are still doing. (before you mis-read this as well, i am referring to the distraction, not the race)

2/26/2010 3:01:23 PM

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/03/13/today-in-un-american-activities

Quote :

"Police in Rapid City, South Dakota, looked through the window of a home and spotted an Iowa marriage license sitting on the kitchen table. They were at the home to serve an arrest warrant to one of two women who lived there. The other woman who lived in the home—a woman who wasn't wanted for anything—happened to be a sergeant in the Air Force. The Air Force sergeant wasn't in trouble with the law, the sergeant hadn't broken any laws, her marriage license and her military career had no bearing on the case. But the Rapid City police officers—just for shits and giggles—let the Air Force know about the Iowa marriage license and Sgt. Jene Newsome's nine-year military career is over."

3/14/2010 3:38:37 PM

^

Quote :

" Look at the company we're keeping"

3/14/2010 9:54:10 PM

^^ those officers were fucking DOUCHEBAGS and should be fired immediately. cops on a power-trip are far more dangerous to liberty and freedom than any terrorist.

3/15/2010 1:56:21 AM

Dude just threw away his chance at a career in the military even if DADT does get repealed any time soon, not that he had a career left if they didn't change this soon. An unfortunate catch-22.











In addition to Choi's protest and the DADT repeal rally today the second round of the DADT hearing where held on capital hill today. Former Major Michael Almy, who never came out, but someone went through his e-mails and then reported him, was among those testifying today.

3/18/2010 11:45:04 PM

yeah, dude fucked up by protesting in uniform, especially making such a big deal of it. You simply can't engage in any kind of political activity while in uniform.

3/18/2010 11:47:10 PM

Given that he was losing his job regardless of what he did, it isn't much of a disincentive towards not being political in uniform. It is unfortunate that being in favor of this kind of military integration has to be a political issue. But I agree, protesting in uniform AND chaining yourself to the white house fence is a straight shot to trouble with the military and with the law... such is the nature of civil disobedience.



[Edited on March 19, 2010 at 12:04 AM. Reason : Kathy Griffin. Former Major Mike Almy testifying]

3/18/2010 11:55:18 PM

choi is national guard. and i thought he had been reinstated. . . he was on the news shows months ago for being kicked out, then again when he was reinstated. seems strange that he would do this.

[Edited on March 19, 2010 at 1:03 AM. Reason : s]

3/19/2010 1:02:12 AM

My understanding, and I may be mistaken, is that he was both called back to serve while his discharge is still pending. Kind of like being called in to work for 2 weeks after giving your notice that you're quitting, except for instead of quitting you're being forced out, and the notice period is more than 2 weeks.

3/19/2010 1:26:29 AM

ok. i never looked into it deeply. just heard that he was serving again.

3/19/2010 1:32:04 AM

Quote :

"Given that he was losing his job regardless of what he did, it isn't much of a disincentive towards not being political in uniform."

He has a lot more to lose than just his job, potentially. Being gay gets you kicked out. Violating the UCMJ as he did might land him in Leavenworth. theDuke can better say if that is the case. Yeah, it's civil disobedience, but i'm not sure what he was really trying to do. He could have done all of that with an army t-shirt on and just gotten a fine.

3/19/2010 2:42:33 AM

For better or worse, it shows that he takes this seriously. I mean, there is no way he didn't know how severe the consequences might be.

3/19/2010 2:46:26 AM

There was a little bit of crazy testimony in yesterday's hearings.

General Colin Powell who served under Bush, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates who served under President Bush and President Obama, Admiral Michael Mullen the highest ranking officer in the United States armed forces, and General David Petraeus who obviously knows a little something about the current conflicts, all agree that DADT needs to be repealed.

But this guy was serving up some serious "nonsense" as a counter argument:

3/19/2010 9:18:48 AM

UNIT COHESION

3/19/2010 9:34:16 AM

Quote :

"* go to trial * pay a $100-$1000 fine that would go to a special victims fund * pay a $100 fine with the case closed to avoid a trial with no admission of guilt."

Choi was given these plea options. He could have gotten out of this relatively easily.

Choi's plea: I'm not ashamed, I'm not finished. Not guilty.

So now there will be a trial date, arguments, possible appeals, and probably this guy ending up in jail for a while. It'll keep the story alive and keep up public pressure on legislators, but he's throwing away his career for sure even after being offered a nearly get out of jail free card. I believe the next important court date is sometime next month.

3/20/2010 6:40:22 PM

they don't want to go to court defending DADT it seems

or at least for it to appear that way.

[Edited on March 20, 2010 at 7:24 PM. Reason : .]

3/20/2010 7:23:52 PM

The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a national organization devoted to assisting those affected by DADT, is hosting a national event today. Pretty busy weekend on the DADT front. Congressman Murphy, first veteran of the Iraq War to serve in Congress, and a leader on DADT repeal is a part of the event.


Lieutenant Colonel Fehrenbach, the now outed 18-year combat aviator whose training cost 25 million, is pictured speaking here.

3/20/2010 9:17:01 PM

Why is there so much pussy-footing around to get this repealed? It seems like there’s enough support in the right areas to go ahead and give the order to do it.

3/20/2010 9:30:33 PM

Set 'em up

[Edited on March 20, 2010 at 11:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/20/2010 11:42:16 PM