Yeah its just rarely done because you have to pay him 120%

So his franchise would be around $17M next year.

I still would rather pay him 1/17 assuming he maintains his level of play this upcoming season. Rather than giving him 5/75 as a 30 year old cb.

Or just let him walk. When you "lose" a player in the nfl its not a big deal like it is in the nba.

In the nba you can't afford to let a free agent walk for free because of the soft cap structure and the difficulty of acquiring future assets. You can't just replace them like you can in the nfl.

The nfl has a hard cap so you are "losing" a player but "gaining" cap space. It's an enormous distinction that people don't really properly recognize between the two leagues.

Also nba players have relatively predictable drop-offs where nfl is a crapshoot. The average career has fallen off a cliff as of late. Plus draft picks have artificially low values so it's way more efficient to stay young at all but the most polarizing positions and impact players like qb, de, ot

[Edited on March 1, 2016 at 5:38 PM. Reason : A]

3/1/2016 5:38:27 PM

A lot of the NFL draft prognosticators and sportswriters really don't seem to talk about the biggest key component to the NFL draft.

Gentleman doesn't mention it because he probably believes a few GMs aren't smart enough to figure it out yet either that's why he gives the "bpa" answer to the media.

The nfl draft has been on a fixed salary structure the last several years now.

So whoever we draft at our pick this year will sign for roughly 4 yrs, $8 million. That fact alone influences the POSITION you should be drafting more so than a specific player.

Obviously we have glaring holes at DE particularly if johnson is released. On the free agent market you won't be able to get shit for $2m at defensive end. This is why it makes it much more likely that we draft a DE and lock in that long term cap savings. Particularly because DE is a position where depth is more important than most since everyone rotates and injuries are almost foregone conclusions.

It simply doesn't make sense to draft a guard who wouldnt start right away as backup guards go for less than that. Shaq was a somewhat curious pick last year but it was clearly done with the thought that Davis might not hold up throughout the season and that we needed someone dynamic out there if he went down.

It also woudktn make much sense to draft a safety in round 1 since we could go get a capable veteran for around that price. The key to the draft is to draft guys whose cap figures will be lower than similar FA veterans would command. That's how you truly get a leg up on competition. It's not just about drafting good players you have to draft efficiently to manage the cap


A good example is that idiotic article suggesting the Cowboys take Ezekiel elliot at #4 this year... even if he were to have a terrific season it's near impossible for an RB to outperform a ridiculously high capacity figure in the modern nfl. So that would clearly be a high risk, low upside pick that makes no sense for a team trying to maximize it's cap efficiency.

[Edited on March 2, 2016 at 12:36 PM. Reason : A]

3/2/2016 12:30:44 PM

oh look, another post where face thinks he's the smartest guy in the room

3/2/2016 1:27:34 PM

that is legitimately a smart post, though

3/2/2016 1:30:22 PM

Am I trying to be the smartest guy in the room or just raise the level of discourse when talking about sports?

THe Bradford signing for 2 yrs, $36M shows the Eagles clearly don't understand cap management. Hell it would have made more sense to franchise him than to do that. But obviously they were better off doing almost anything else than signing him to huge money..

There are several ways you can effectively address the QB position right now...

1) Sign a franchise QB in the $20-$25m range. If you can get a Rodgers, Roeth, Cam, etc and pay him that much he can have enough impact that you can build a winner around him. Clearly, most teams would prefer to go this route. Best shot at playoffs and super bowl winner.

2) Draft an early QB like luck, bortles, cam and dalton before their extensions who will outperform his contract on his rookie deal. These guys lock in at the $4-$7m/yr dollar range and can often offer upper mid-level qb production at the cost of a low level starter. This enables you to hypothetically surround him with better talent. I don't like this route QUITE as much because typically the team is garbage when you're able to draft this early and if the young qb doesn't outperform quickly it can be tough to get him up to speed and the team good enough to win it all during this window. Still it's a viable strategy and gives the team a backup shot at option 1 if the qb develops into a franchise qb after his rookie deal. Most likely you'll get some good playoff type years before his extension kicks in if you get a good one but not make a super bowl.

3) Draft a non first round QB and pay him peanuts like RW, Kaepernick, or Derek carr. This is my favorite approach because it's low risk and you can save close to the entire $25m to fill out your roster with other studs. If the qb doesn't pan out you still have him signed to a below avg deal for a backup qb and he could still develop or have some trade value around the league if another team sees potential. Thus is a terrific option for a team with a strong core of talent but no proven signal caller. The team who should implement this in my opinion is denver. Let osweiler and Peyton walk, keep miller, Malik jackson, etc and take a 2nd round qb and try your luck. You won with absolutely terrible qb production so even a below avg qb has a shot clearly. Better shot at super bowl that option 2 IMO.

4) plug in a cheap ~$5m veteran qb like hoyer and try to build a super team around him. I hate this option is think #3 is clearly better . You really have to nail everything else and your plan has very limited upside and significant downside if the qb cant play or you have injuries

5) get a totally average qb and pay him 15-20m like tannehill, bradford, flacco, etc. I think this is the worst strategy because you have a tiny cap savings vs the rodgers, cam newton, etc type teams and it's just very difficult to make up that ground at all the other positions combined and will cost way more than 5M to do so. The Eagles have just locked up a below average qb to essentially the same money we pay cam newton..how the hell can you win like that? Particularly after last year's dubious offseason


6) get a stud vet qb who agrees to take significantly less than market value to try to build his legacy. Well this is the best strategy assuming you have tom brady. If Peyton really wanted a super bowl he'd agree to comeback next year for peanuts with another incentive based contract. Can't see him doing it. This isn't a typical viable strategy since no qb except brady seem to do i


Bottom line, you need to skimp at the qb position salary wise or get an elite one. You aren't going to win paying huge bucks to cutler, tannehill, types often enough. As good as rivers, eli, brees, etc are they aren't giving you an advantage against the rest of the league when you overpay them





[Edited on March 2, 2016 at 2:24 PM. Reason : A]

3/2/2016 2:09:59 PM

So Dalton was a #2 when drafted, but is he a #1 or a #6 at this point in time? Because the problem with #2 is that it doesn't always pan out to a #1

And then what? Start over because you don't want to pay a good QB like a great QB?

[Edited on March 2, 2016 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ]

3/2/2016 2:40:53 PM

Right, in theory you don't ever want to pay a player more than his value because there is a salary cap.

Dalton is a tough call but I'd say his true value is in that 15-20 range... think of it this way would you need an extra $5m wr to make dalton approximate to rodgers? Or would you need a $10m one...?

Qb requires a premium on signing one because of their scarcity. That's why you're almost always better off drafting one than signing a free agent... the free agents will simply cost too much... and resigning the bradford, cutler, tannehill, etc of the world make it very difficult to field a winner.

You basically should be just taking an inexpensive flyer on a guy who can be serviceable unless you have a guy who can produce legitimate value.

Statistically, a stud qb is worth approximately 4 wins. So just use that as a baseline

3/2/2016 3:43:20 PM

Falcons cut Roddy White

3/2/2016 4:46:40 PM

You know, after losing the Super Bowl, I'm now SO GLAD we lost to the Falcons in the regular season.

18-1 would have been so much worse than 17-2.

3/2/2016 6:31:39 PM

18-1 would have been great...if the one loss was still the Falcons.

3/3/2016 12:14:10 AM

Roddy white is completely useless

3/3/2016 2:02:17 AM

he was decent last season for some soundbytes. unfortunately he actually helped account for one of our two L's.

3/3/2016 2:13:31 AM

I'm more shocked Roddy didn't just retire. I don't think he could see the field for any NFL team next year, you might as well just retire with the Falcons.

3/3/2016 8:46:11 AM

Offically cut Charles Johnson. Can't argue with the move after an injury plagued 1 sack season. Saves 11 million in cap space and almost guarantees we'll be looking hard at DE in free agency, the draft, or both.

Currently we only have Ealy, Addison, Delaire, and I think thats it. Short sometimes slides to DE on passing downs but he's much more valuable at DT.

3/3/2016 9:55:47 AM

Think we'll do what Gettleman does, he'll let FA play out and then look for bargains at positions of need. We'll find an aging vet at DE and SS that can come in and compete for minutes.

At least it's a strong draft for 4-3 DEs, so we should be OK landing 1 in the first 2 rounds.

3/3/2016 10:27:43 AM

Very similar to the Steve Smith situation. Gettleman saw a declining veteran with a huge cap number, a draft that was loaded with players at that position, and made the logical decision.

3/3/2016 10:39:35 AM

Dwan Edwards cut

3/3/2016 11:56:50 AM

Eh not really. we'd inflated his cap figure beyond any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Hurney really fucked us over good we had no choice. No one is gonna pay any DE short of jj watt $20m.

Steve Smith was another hurney screwjob. He'd given him a deal out of line with the market. We didn't save any money the year we cut him, we did it to free up cap space for this past season

3/3/2016 12:56:13 PM

So guessing we'll end up signing Coples and then looking for a veteran SS to pick up.

Also seems like DE and DT will be taken fairly early in this draft.

3/3/2016 1:48:48 PM

so do we have the cash to make a run at Mario?

3/3/2016 1:49:21 PM

Quote :

" We didn't save any money the year we cut him, we did it to free up cap space for this past season"

That, and cutting Smith actually allowed Benjamin to develop instead of being stuck behind a guy who wasn't a team player.

3/3/2016 1:57:00 PM

We could make a run at Mario and I wouldnt mind it but my guess is gentleman will go slightly cheaper route than that.

I'd like him at 3/30 but so few pass rushers on the market who knows what he will command...

Guessing Jax or Oakland will throw more at him thanot that. With so much cap space out there for teams i don't think we will see us signing any big names.

I don't like coples so hopefully he'd be very cheap if we get him.. not even sure he'd make a lot of rosters


No doubt there was some friction between Gettleman and Steve smith, but I woulent say he wasn't a team player... a little loud like every other wr practically. We needed to move him to the slot anyway. I think he would have given teams a lot of trouble in sets with kb and olsen. That's a lot of speed and size between those three.

[Edited on March 3, 2016 at 2:15 PM. Reason : A]

3/3/2016 2:03:24 PM

Nate Chandler cut

3/3/2016 2:05:26 PM

LOL
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14893628

3/3/2016 2:31:01 PM

Defensive end will probably suck next year, but it sucked for most of 2015 too. We're better off using the cap room to add depth and talent at other positions then signing some expensive free agent DE whose team didn't want him anymore. We need Kony to step up and be 2016's Norman, a guy who emerges from relative obscurity to be one of the best at his position. If that happens, Gettleman can scrap together a productive DE rotation from the FA trash heap and draft.

3/3/2016 2:32:56 PM

Don't be shocked if CJ is back at a lower number

3/3/2016 3:29:18 PM

id like to see that^ not expecting improvement necessarily, but he's a safe bet against regression at the position - with upside cause he'd be healthy finally

3/3/2016 9:37:18 PM

Yeah de really can't be any worse than it was last year. It might actually be improved.


^^ we waived johnson this morning dude

3/4/2016 12:17:12 AM

yeah, we waived him from his current contract. let's see what happens in a month when his agent tells him he's not gonna get the mario money that he's hoping for.

3/4/2016 12:47:04 AM

Wow, you really don't understand how this stuff works do you...

We already offered a restructure and he turned it down.

We're not going to sign him now we are already eating the dead money. That would just be fucking stupid. Why would we want him on worse terms than we could have had him...

And yeah he's still gonna get big money from someone. There are 31 other teams out there.

I'd say he gets like 3/$26

3/4/2016 1:55:39 AM

You think if cj doesn't get offered what he wants, and he comes back to Carolina and says "ok, I'll take the new, lower offer," that the Panthers are gonna tell him to walk because he wanted to test the free agent waters? So smart about some things, so dumb about others.

3/4/2016 3:30:43 AM

for whatever its worth, i'd be shocked of johnson was on the panthers next season too

3/4/2016 12:57:09 PM

Mario Williams looking for $10 million/season, reportedly will sign immediately if a team offers him that much.

Apparently most clubs not wanting to offer him even that. I was hoping we could get him at about $8 million/year, but I don't think the Panthers had any interest.

3/7/2016 3:37:00 PM

Tree you just don't get it man. You don't cut a guy with guaranteed money left to resign him. You renegotiate.

If you can't figure out why then we are done here.

Interesting Mario can't get 10m. Maybe we would be interested around 8... I feel like gettleman will want to go younger but not sure

3/8/2016 5:43:24 AM

Given the way this draft looks on paper, I think we definitely take a DE early. If we really are going to sign Coples, we might just skip on Mario all together, even at $8 mil/yr. Would give you Ealy and Coples to start until we have our draft pick ready to play meaningful minutes.

I still think we pick up a veteran DE on a short contract, just not sure it'll be near the price-tag of Mario Williams.

Also interesting to see that the estimated value for a guy like Lamar Miller is around $4-5 mil/yr. Young, solid player with upside, but don't see us investing in a FA RB unless it's a cheaper option to come in and compete for #2 spot.

3/8/2016 8:53:14 AM

Charles Johnson coming back!

3/8/2016 7:36:14 PM

Quote :

"Tree you just don't get it man"

3/8/2016 7:46:46 PM

Quote :

"Don't be shocked if CJ is back at a lower number"

3/8/2016 7:50:54 PM

3 mil

3/8/2016 8:41:37 PM

Ok I'm just gonna have to eat that one... seriously though what the fucking fuck... I can't believe he went that cheaply.

I never considered him to be available anywhere near that cheap or only on a one year deal. Hard to be upset with us getting him that cheap i just hope his body finally holds up. We wouldn't be able to sign him cheaply if he was getting multi-year deals from anyone it woulda made more sense to renegotiate

Not much market for Mario this year either, I guess the depth at defensive end inot the draft is cooling things off significantly

[Edited on March 8, 2016 at 8:58 PM. Reason : A]

3/8/2016 8:57:17 PM

He's not an elite edge rusher, never has been, but he's always been an underrated cog in our stout run defense. If he can stay healthy he'll be a solid piece. He produced in the playoffs once he was finally healthy again.

3/8/2016 8:58:55 PM

Reports he had offers of close to $6 million but chose to stay with the Panthers for less money. Guess he wants one more shot at the SB with us.

That's some Gettlemagic shit right there.

Still think with the depth at DE in this draft we come away with one in the first 2 rounds.

3/8/2016 9:06:14 PM

man that's awesome loyalty from him

3/9/2016 12:09:30 AM

Quote :

"Wow, you really don't understand how this stuff works do you... We already offered a restructure and he turned it down. We're not going to sign him now we are already eating the dead money. That would just be fucking stupid. Why would we want him on worse terms than we could have had him... And yeah he's still gonna get big money from someone. There are 31 other teams out there. I'd say he gets like 3/$26"

Smartest guy in the room eh? It would be a tad more tolerable if you didn't take such a condescending tone.

3/9/2016 8:21:33 AM

Quote :

"The knock on Johnson wasn't that he didn’t have anything left as he approached 30. His three sacks in the playoffs after he had only one during an injury-plagued regular season proved that there's plenty left in the tank."

While I could still see us drafting a DE in the first few rounds, this definitely takes pressure off of having to have a great DE immediately. Not like CJ will be around too much longer, but gives plenty of time for a later round DE to develop behind him - or we finally move on a free agent DE in the next few years.

We're in position to contend for another SB - so it'd be crazy not to fill other/bigger holes like WR, Oline, or DB to be that much more of a complete team in 2016/2017.

3/9/2016 9:02:18 AM

$$$ freed up for
http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/19983/eric-weddle-antonio-cromartie-express-interest-in-playing-for-panthers

3/9/2016 9:04:14 AM

Quote :

"so it'd be crazy not to fill other/bigger holes like WR"

is WR that big of a hole? i know we didn't re-sign Cotchery. but with Funchess, KB, Ginn, Corey/Philly Brown, and of course third leg Greg...our WRs aren't that bad. certainly not an elite group, but simply getting KB back makes the 2016 group much better than the 2015 group. in other words, i'd rank OL and DB as much more pressing needs than WR

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/09/giants-g-m-helped-talk-charles-johnson-into-going-home/

Quote :

"Johnson told the Panthers’ official website that during his visit, he asked Reese if he’d leave for a job with another team for more money. “He started as an intern and now he’s the G.M. for the Giants. He saw everything that happened – championships and all that. He said he wouldn’t trade that for the world,” Johnson said. “When he said that, I just thought to myself, ‘I’ve been here the longest. And all I’ve asked for is an opportunity. So how can I turn away from my team and the family that’s in Charlotte – how can I turn away?’ “That overweighed everything. I wanted to be happy, and I literally couldn’t imagine signing with them. This place raised me.”"

[Edited on March 9, 2016 at 9:33 AM. Reason : link]

3/9/2016 9:13:57 AM

Benjamin, Funchess and Ginn are a solid core. They also resigned Stephen Hill, who they seem to really like (I would assume, resigning him after an ACL tear and a drug suspension). Brown will be fighting for a roster spot next season with Hill, Norwood, etc.

3/9/2016 11:21:43 AM

Tolbert resigns for 2 yr deal

3/9/2016 11:28:32 AM

I'd love to land Weddle, but see 0% chance that happens unless he just gives us some sweetheart deal because he wants to play for us and Ron.

3/9/2016 11:37:36 AM