Interesting series of propaganda posters from inside North Korea:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/22/poster_children_of_the_hermit_kingdom

2/22/2010 11:00:56 PM

Quote :

"N. Korea defector touts ideology over force Washington (CNN) -- North Korea's highest-ranking defector said "ideological warfare," not military action, would help topple the regime of Kim Jong Il. "We don't need to resort to force," Hwang Jang-yop told a small audience Wednesday at the Center for Strategic International Studies, a Washington-based think tank. "We need to use ideology and markets and diplomacy. We need to take a lesson from the cold war." Hwang, an 87-year-old former secretary of North Korea's ruling Workers' Party, was in Washington meeting with academics and policymakers on his second trip to Washington since defecting in 1997 during a trip to Beijing, China. "Tell Kim Jong Il he doesn't qualify as a participant in the Six Party Talks," he said, referring to multilateral efforts aimed at persuading Pyongyang to abandon its nuclear program."That's the only punch we could hit him with." Hwang said that neither engaging nor attacking the regime would help bring about change in North Korea. Rather, he said, it was critical to educate North Koreans about human rights abuses taking place in their country. ...... Describing life in North Korea, he said, "Everybody are slaves, serfs ... People have been brainwashed and abused for so long they don't even know they are supposed to have rights." Even of his own privileged life in North Korea, he said "we were high ranked slaves. We still lived a life of servitude. We didn't have freedom." The North Korea military, he said, is "the only force who could say no" to the North Korean leader. Hwang told CNN's Jill Dougherty he hoped his visit would promote better relations between the United States and South Korea. He stressed the stalled free-trade agreement between the U.S. and South Korea could solidify relations between Washington and Seoul and thwart Pyongyang's efforts to weaken their alliance. Still, he said, he didn't believe that Kim Jong Il harbored the vehement anti-American sentiment that has been the hallmark of his regime's public rhetoric. "Deep down when he is talking in private with his henchmen, he never speaks ill about the United States," Hwang said. ......"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/03/31/nkorea.defector/index.html?hpt=T2

That last bit about Kim Jong Il and the US surprised me. Surprise might be an overstatement, but its certainly interesting.

3/31/2010 11:13:35 PM

^I'm only surprised in that I've always figured him to be insane. Wouldn't have expected the guy to be using anti-American rhetoric as a method of control... Then again, it could just be media/propaganda aides doing most of that, while Kim is left to be privately crazy. I don't really know enough about the inner-workings of N.K.'s government to even speculate.

3/31/2010 11:18:34 PM

I'm sure he's still nuts.

But he also has been known to like our luxury items, so he can only hate us so much, I guess...

3/31/2010 11:23:06 PM

he's not nuts

he's a pathetic little dictator

that's it

he uses NK as his own personal little fiefdom and the NK treasury as his own personal bank account

you do not have to analyze it much further than that

[Edited on March 31, 2010 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

3/31/2010 11:37:32 PM

I'm slowly coming around to thinking that he's not necessarily insane or so ill-informed about the rest of the world that he might as well be.

Whenever you've got a dictator (or something like it), his overarching goal is to stay in power. It turns out that when dictators get kicked out of power, they tend to end up in jail or executed. I suppose that, in their position, I'd do whatever it took to avoid those outcomes as well.

Of course, occasionally you get a leader who is crafty enough to take credit for making the transition to democracy. Gorbachev didn't get a blindfold and cigarette. But that's difficult, all the more so for people who are passionately in love with themselves and their power.

The good news is that Kim Jong Il won't live forever, and there's a fair likelihood that when he dies either the military or his favorite kid will take over. Neither is exactly good, but they each provide an opportunity -- neither leadership is so invested that their choices are power, prison, or the bullet.

4/1/2010 12:08:05 AM

Yeah, Kim Jong-il's actions appear irrational until you view them from the standpoint of staying in power. Then he seems perfectly, deadly rational. Like Grumpy says, he can't live forever, but the question is whether the elites who take over will not be cut from the same cloth.

4/1/2010 1:36:31 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/04/03/senegal.statue/index.html

Quote :

"In exchange for the money to build the statue, North Korea received a piece of Senegalese land, Abrassart said."

4/4/2010 2:52:47 AM

I'm headed to Seoul tomorrow.

If I have time I'm going to try to check out the DMZ.

4/20/2010 3:44:40 PM

Quote :

"North Korea to seize South Korean property Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea announced Friday that it plans to seize five South Korean-owned properties at a mountain resort as tensions mount between the two nations. The property at scenic Mt Kumgang region in North Korea will be seized, all other South Korean assets at the resort frozen and all South Korean staff expelled, the Korea Central News Agency said. While the resort is run by Hyundai Asan, a private South Korean business, the five facilities are run by the South Korean government. The properties are a fire station, a duty-free shop, a reunion center for families divided since the 1950-53 Korean War, a cultural center and a spa. "This is very serious, because we have invested U.S. $90 million," said Lee Charm, president of the (South) Korean Tourism Organization. The organization runs the spa, the duty free shop and the cultural center. South Korean government officials have not responded to North Korea's move. Lee said there would be no official response until after a meeting with the Unification Ministry. Pyongyang has said it will give the facilities to another operator, but Lee said the actions will lower the possibility of foreign investment. "As far as tourism is concerned, this is kind of like them giving up on any foreign investment," Lee said of the North Korea announcement. "If they do this, they will not find anyone else wanting to invest money in tourism enterprises." The news comes as tension mounts between the two Koreas after the mysterious sinking of the South Korean warship Cheonan near disputed waters. South Korean officials have said the March incident was caused by an external explosion. There are suspicions, though no direct evidence, of North Korean involvement. The Mount Kumgang resort was established in 1998. It's a virtual enclave inside secretive North Korea, reachable by a road corridor and by cruise ships. Nearly 2 million tourists -- the vast majority South Korean -- have visited it. However, activities ceased when a South Korean tourist was shot by a North Korean soldier there in summer 2008, allegedly after she wandered into a restricted area. The South Korean government suspended all tours and demanded a joint investigation into the incident. The North Korean government declined. Pyongyang has periodically threatened to seize the resort unless tours -- a key source of foreign currency for the impoverished regime -- are resumed. "I think this is very serious," said North Korea expert Dr Choi Jin-wook at the Seoul-based Korea Institute of National Unification said. "I think North Korea has almost given up on inter-Korean relations." "The situation has reached such an extreme phase that it is at the crossroads of a war or peace, much less thinking of the resumption of the tour," KCNA said. "It is quite natural that we can no longer show generosity and tolerance to the south side under this situation.""

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/04/23/north.korea.property.seizure/index.html?hpt=T2

What's the sense in that?

4/23/2010 8:48:15 AM

Things are really looking now like it was a North Korean submarine that torpedoed and sank the South Korean corvette Cheonan. My guess is that the ROK government is holding back until it can figure out how to respond. In the past when the North pulled stunts like this, the South was almost ready to pounce though the US usually reeled them back in. Now though, the South has more to lose, and therefore, their options are much more limited.

I think the article makes a good point: the North has threatened to seize this territory for a while now after that South Korean tourist was shot while visiting (though it was probably stupid to invest in the property in the first place given the North's general attitude toward private property to begin with).

I'm not sure if this is some sort of calculus the North has committed in order to try and ratchet up tensions in hopes of new negotiations and more concessions or if they've truly written off the South. If its the former, then I'm afraid they're going to find out that the sinking may have pushed the South too far.

4/23/2010 3:42:44 PM

Wow. Just got back to the hotel from a trip to the DMZ and Panmunjom. It's easily the weirdest place I've ever seen.

4/24/2010 5:47:46 AM

This is a couple of years old but interesting as hell. It's a 60 Minutes profile of one of the american GIs who defected across the DMZ in the 60s.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2405878n&tag=related;photovideo

I got a good chuckle out of his white kid with a korean accent.

5/5/2010 4:55:43 PM

You get any pics from your trip?


Could you feel any tension between the North and South?

5/5/2010 5:04:35 PM

I got a few. They're really strict about photos though.

At Dora Observatory they've got a great view of the valley, the two "peace villages" in the DMZ and the two giant flagpoles. Unfortunately, they've also got a big yellow line a good deal back from the edge beyond which photography is prohibited. I watched the ROK soldiers there yank people aside, go through their cameras with them, and tell them to delete pictures. Obviously any pictures you can take don't show anything.

When we got to Panmunjom where the DPRK and ROK soldiers face off they make you march double file to the conference room stradling the MDL where you can take a few pictures within the confines of the room (not out the windows). On the way out they drove us just behind it on the bus and gave us a 5 second window to take pictures from the bus. I ended up with two pics of the lone DPRK soldier standing back a good way. The rest of the time we were prohibited from any picture taking from within the bus, aside from another brief window at the Bridge of No Return and the site of the Ax Murder Incident.

Also, they're surprisingly strict about dress code because the North Koreans have been known to take pictures of the western tourists to use as propaganda. Until recently you couldn't wear any denim as they would use that as proof that all westerners are poor, though now its acceptable. However, one young girl on the bus had on a pair of jeans with some small holes on the thighs. The guide didn't notice this until just before we got there and frantically made another person loan her a sweatshirt to wrap around her waist to cover up. Even after that, we weren't allowed to be seen pointing or taking pictures across the MDL.

Since I didn't get any good pictures my big souvenirs are a couple of cheap bottles of North Korean soju bought in a DMZ store and the waiver I had to sign for "injury or death as a direct result of enemy action".

Yeah, it was super tense. We were there a couple of days after they announced that the SK ship had been sunk by an external explosion and the same day that the north announced that they were seizing $100 million worth of SK resort property in their territory. I was the biggest guy in the group and had a big mean looking ROK guy within 5 feet of me the entire time we were in Panmunjom in case I decided to start shit. He looked like he would have been very happy to fuck me up.

[Edited on May 5, 2010 at 7:00 PM. Reason : .]

5/5/2010 6:57:06 PM

For the guys at the DMZ, they actually go through the new conscripts and try to pick the biggest and most intimidating individuals to serve at these sorts of high visibility locations. When US personnel were up there, they'd literally have a team watching every jet load of new arrivals for border duty prospects.

Did you see any tourists on the North Korean side? They used to have a decent number of Chinese and even some Western tourists who would go see Panmunjom from the Northern side as part of a government tour package. A group of Americans who did it once said it was absolutely surreal especially since they did the Panmunjom tour from the Southern side before.

5/6/2010 1:01:41 PM

^ Watch the 'friends of kim' documentary on youtube.

I've gotten into north korean history lately, and I think its both fascinating and scary.

I also think South Korean citizens should be a lot more thankful we have troops on the border like we do.

5/6/2010 1:34:29 PM

wow, I had no idea. Thanks for the story Joshua. The thing about wearing jeans and propaganda is pretty mind-blowing.

I can't imagine everyone just being "ready" all of the time. I really cant imagine living in North Korea either.

5/6/2010 1:55:21 PM

I was stationed in Korea for a year, it's 'highly encouraged' you go visit the DMZ while you're there so you see the reason why you are there and who the enemy is.

Joshua is right, it's hard as shit to get good pictures. Question for you though, did your trip include tunnel #3?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Tunnel_of_Aggression

Going down there was insane, also kind of funny. North Korea claimed they were mining for coal, however, since there was no coal down there, they painted the rocks black

5/6/2010 2:08:01 PM

Quote :

"For the guys at the DMZ, they actually go through the new conscripts and try to pick the biggest and most intimidating individuals to serve at these sorts of high visibility locations."

For any ROK guys to work Panmunjom they have to be at least 6' tall (which is rare in Korea) and have a black belt in tae kwon do. Apparently the height difference is even more noticeable now because so many of the DPRK soldiers grew up malnourished during the famine in the 90s and are shorter than normal now. It's just one of many customs at the DMZ that seem like such a pissing contest to anyone not familiar with it. The conference room straddling the border that we saw is also under constant guard - apparently DPRK guys used to sneak in there before north/south meetings and swivel down or shorten the legs of the south's chairs so that they would have to look up at the North Koreans during meetings.

Quote :

"A group of Americans who did it once said it was absolutely surreal especially since they did the Panmunjom tour from the Southern side before."

I think that might be the same video that BEU posted on the last page. I didn't see any tourists on their side, in fact I only saw one DPRK soldier standing at the top of the steps watching us with binoculars.

Quote :

"I can't imagine everyone just being "ready" all of the time."

Heading north on the road from Seoul is pretty wild. It quickly turns from the second biggest city in the world into miles and miles of what looks like WWI battlefields and rice paddies. The road follows the Han River, which originates in North Korea. Most of the riverbank between Seoul and the DMZ is lined with triple rows of barb wired and observation towers in case anyone tries to infiltrate by swimming downstream. Closer to the border most of the big roads go under what look like solid concrete overpasses, which are actually rigged with explosives to collapse and block the road in case of invasion. We were told that each one of those would slow down an invasion by 8 minutes.

I'll try to upload the few pictures I have over the weekend.

^ Yeah, we did that. My back is still sore as shit from it too. The average height of the tunnel has got to be less than 5'6". I'm 6'4" and ended up walking all 400 meters hunched over.

It's pretty scary to wonder how many more undiscovered tunnels they have.

[Edited on May 6, 2010 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

5/6/2010 2:14:19 PM

In that conference room is a bunch of flags. During a meeting there a few years ago, apparently one of the North Korean guards spit on the US flag and used it to shine his shoe. They now have the flags in a frame.

5/6/2010 2:24:52 PM

Joshua, can you state what would happen if one of the DPRK guards decided to defect and jump across the stone tripper? I know they have a system of dual redundancy, but its a short hop, and I think it would be bold for the north to shoot across to the south.\

I know you must have procedures for defectors, just dont know if it can be stated publically.

[Edited on May 6, 2010 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

5/6/2010 2:26:25 PM

^^ I think that was a few years ago when President Bush visited.

^ I don't know about the DPRK guards, but in 1984 a Soviet tourist defected by yelling "I wish to defect!" and running across the border. Some guys ran out of the building with AKs (in violation of the JSA) and tried to kill him. A ROK/US quick response team showed up and a 20 minute firefight ensued. Ultimately I think 1 ROK guy and 5 DPRK guys were killed before ROK/US forces surrounded them and they laid down their weapons and walked back across. A few minutes later a pair of gunshots were heard and another defector later told them that the base commander and his assistant were executed 20 minutes after the incident.

Since then the DPRK soldiers face each other in front of the MDL so no one can sneak up behind them and make a run for it. I assume that DPRK guys don't ever try it because they know that their families will end up in camps.

[Edited on May 6, 2010 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

5/6/2010 2:35:03 PM

I want to hear your story, but I don't speak acronym

5/6/2010 2:38:43 PM

democratic peoples republic of korea (nk)
republic of korea (sk)
joint security area
military demarcation line

5/6/2010 2:40:05 PM

that helped, thanks

5/6/2010 3:01:14 PM

^^^^ I haven't heard that particular story, but that sounds about right, particularly for that time period. The North Koreans are known for three generation incarceration for political crimes, usually throwing not just you but your parents and children into prison camps to "expunge the bloodline." I'm sure that any of the DPRK guards they send to the DMZ areas, they ensure are not just "true believers" but also have sufficient relatives that they can collectively punish if a guard tried something as stupid as trying to run across.

Besides, the DMZ has always been a pretty lousy place to try and defect. Not only do you have your own side shooting at you for being a traitor, but you have the other side shooting at you thinking you're trying to sneak across or do something.

5/7/2010 1:06:45 AM

I could have ran across into that glorious land of freedom and prosperity.

5/7/2010 2:12:24 AM

I was stationed up at the DMZ for 2 years (extended my tour). It was the weirdest, most tense place I've ever been (to include the middle east). Every night they (the north) would broadcast propaganda over loudspeakers to us, took some time getting used to.

5/7/2010 12:31:14 PM

My father had a good story about the propaganda broadcasts. Back when he was a freshly minted 2nd Lieutenant during the 1970s, he was stationed out on the DMZ. The first night, the North Korean broadcasts greeted him by name, announced the name of the town and neighborhood he had came from, and pointed out what a shame it would be for him to die in service of the American puppet government and never return to eat at a few restaurants (by name) near his home. This was back when both sides would sneak across in the evenings to slit a few throats every now and then. Needless to say, he didn't sleep that night.

He also told me about how they'd see the glowing eyes of tigers every now and then along the frontier. You knew it was a big cat because the guard dogs would crawl into a corner, whine, and pee themselves.

5/8/2010 6:07:01 PM

Not really related, but this thread is turning into the place to discuss all things North Korean:

Quote :

"Mugabe's 'Noah's Ark' gift to Kim Jong Il sparks outrage The British conservation group Born Free has joined the outcry against a plan by Zimbabwe to ship a “Noah’s Ark” of wildlife, including two young elephants, to North Korea. News reports last week said the animals, reportedly two of every species in Zimbabwe’s 14,600 square kilometer Hwange National Park, are to be a gift from Zimbawean President Robert Mugabe to his North Korean counterpart, Kim Jong Il. “We can see no conservation benefit to these plans, and are concerned about the substantial threat to the welfare of the individual animals involved,” Born Free said in a statement on its website. The group said the 18-month-old elephants are unlikely to fare well during the approximate 7,000 mile trip and afterward when they get to North Korea. “Baby elephants normally continue to suckle from their mothers for 4 years, so removal at this young age could have a severe physical impact in terms of nutrition, immunity and other developmental issues. It is also certain to have a huge impact on the emotional and social development of the young animals,” the group’s statement said. Other animals to be included in the transfer include black and white rhinos, cheetahs, lions, leopards, giraffes and zebras, according to news reports. Johnny Rodrigues, head of the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, said teams of trappers are working in the Hwange park around the clock to fulfill the Mugabe order, according to a report in The Zimbabwean newspaper. He said his group was trying to enlist international influence to block the transfer. North Korea’s zoos do not meet international standards, he said. Born Free agreed. “Our fear is that the facilities in North Korea would fall far short of even the most basic requirements for the physical and psychological well-being of the animals,” the organization said. But according to a report from The Standard newspaper in Zimbabwe, the country’s parks chief, Vitalis Chadenga, said Zimbabwe is sending experts to North Korea to be sure the animals are properly cared for."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/18/mugabes-noahs-ark-gift-to-kim-jong-il-sparks-outrage/?hpt=C2

My only question concerns their looming famine. Will food go to the animals instead of people or will the animals simply be eaten?

5/18/2010 2:31:23 PM

interesting thread. thanks for the stories.

5/18/2010 2:48:18 PM

^^ When I heard that story, I thought the exact same thing. Perhaps the Dear Leader has a hankering for elephant steaks.

5/19/2010 4:48:46 PM

Mildly depressing:


Rare Visions of Rural North Korea
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1994557,00.html?cnn=yes&hpt=C2

6/8/2010 7:12:13 PM

China is pissed at Kin Jong Il now -- let the countdown to the end of this regime begin.

6/9/2010 5:58:51 PM

Don't bet on it. They'll sweep it under the rug and stomach it because they still need North Korea. Worst case, China will slap them on the wrist, North Korea will apologize, and it'll be back to business as usual.

6/10/2010 1:59:01 AM

^I'm not very well versed in asian relations....Why does china need NK?

6/10/2010 9:42:35 AM

same reason US needs Israel

6/10/2010 9:48:22 AM

There are several strong reasons for China to put up with North Korea, even with all the trouble they cause:

1) If North Korea collapses, millions of refugees will flood into China.
2) North Korea serves as a buffer state to both a democratic South Korea, its American allies, and the American garrison on the Korean peninsula.
3) The PLA has a soft spot for North Korea as a historical ally. Kind of like how influential factions within the US government have a soft spot for Israel.
4) Most of the troubles North Korea causes are headaches for the US and her allies and not China.
5) China has intertwined itself into the North Korean markets and is making a pretty dime on it. Collapse of China would cost it those resources.

6/10/2010 3:22:12 PM

North Korea Executes Official Who Negotiated With South, Dong-a Ilbo Says
July 19, 2010

Quote :

"North Korea executed a former Cabinet official who had been responsible for negotiations with South Korea, the Seoul-based Dong-a Ilbo newspaper reported, citing an unidentified person in Beijing. Kwon Ho Ung, North Korea's chief delegate to ministerial-level talks between the two sides from 2004 to 2007 was killed by firing squad, the paper said. The Ministry of People’s Security and the Ministry of State Security, the North's two main security arms, are rounding up 'impure elements' to show their loyalty to Kim Jong Un, the heir apparent to North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, the newspaper said in an editorial July 17. Last week, brothers in their 20s were publicly executed in Hoeryong, North Hamkyong Province, the paper said without giving details. Former Railway Minister Kim Yong Sam was publicly executed in March last year after about 100 locomotives were scrapped after workers stole and sold components, it said. In March this year, Pak Nam Gi, former finance director of the ruling North Korean Workers' Party who oversaw last year's botched currency revaluation, was also shot, it said."

http://tinyurl.com/27dpqtc

This is who we're dealing with, folks.

But, but. . .if we just be nice to North Korea and reason with them. . . .

Those people listed in the article above probably tried to reason with them, too--and then they were executed.

7/22/2010 3:20:14 PM

For those who worked over there, what is the real south korean attitude toward US soldiers on the border? I am pretty sure I already know the answer, but want to hear it from someone that has lived there.

7/22/2010 3:30:53 PM

I've lived and worked there for a bit and regularly interact with Korean expats here in the United States. There's a mixed feeling about US forces in Korea. I think all but the most left-wing elements in the South recognize that the USFK plays a crucial role in securing the ROK, that their presence is the deterrence that tilts the balance to the point where North Korea has no hope of ever winning a war with the South and that USFK helped get the ROK to where it is today. At the elite level, I think there is a recognition that they're getting a sort of defense subsidy from the US, as the US provides much of their C3I capabilities and brings other powerful assets.

There are some with nationalist sentiments that finds it embarrassing that they need to rely upon the US, but those elements usually stop short of calling for the ejection of US forces. I think amongst the regular citizenry, there's more a desire to on one hand renegotiate the ROK-US Alliance to create a more equitable relationship (for example, in the event of war, ROK forces fall under US chain of command or holding US GI's accountable for accidents like the APC that ran over the two school girls), but at the same time, they don't want to push the US so hard that they drive American forces out. They also are wary of the US unnecessarily provoking the North particularly during the Bush administration. It's the same balancing act that's been going on for the last sixty years where South Korea is trying to gauge American commitment to the Korean peninsula and hedge its bets accordingly.

You also have generation gaps on US sentiment where older people tend to be more pro-American as they remember the "bad old days" when South Korea was backwards and North Korea would do things like blow up airliners and send commandos into downtown Seoul. Younger people tend to be more nationalist as they remember only a more prosperous South Korea and a North Korean state that's dysfunctional and on the verge of collapse.

That said, once North Korea collapses or reinvents itself, then all bets are off.

7/23/2010 11:19:09 AM

^ Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Now, here's this. . .

North Korea threatens 'physical response' to U.S.-South Korea military exercise
July 23, 2010

Quote :

"HANOI -- North Korea and the United States exchanged veiled threats Friday at an Asian regional security conference, where attention has focused on the North's sinking of a South Korean naval ship in March. A U.S.-South Korean military exercise planned in response to the sinking of the Cheonan is a violation of North Korea's 'sovereignty . . . and security,' North Korean delegate Ri Tong Il told reporters outside the closed-door conference, and would be met with a 'physical response.' Ri spoke after Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told the meeting that 'an isolated and belligerent North Korea has embarked on a campaign of provocative, dangerous behavior,' according to prepared remarks provided to reporters. 'Peaceful resolution of the issues on the Korean Peninsula will be possible only if North Korea fundamentally changes its behavior,' Clinton said."

Quote :

"Ri caused a stir when he exited the meeting following Clinton's statement. He first read a statement to reporters in Korean. Asked to respond in English, he then said that North Korea's 'position is clear. There will be a physical response to the threat imposed by the United States military.'"

Quote :

"When North Korea refused to accept formal notification of the U.S.-South Korean military exercises this week, the U.N. commander read the announcement over a bullhorn across the Demilitarized Zone that has separated the two countries since the Korean War was formally suspended in 1953."

Quote :

"'It's distressing when North Korea continues its threats and causes so much anxiety among its neighbors and the larger region,' Clinton continued, 'but we will demonstrate once again through our military exercises . . . that the United States stands in firm support of the defense of South Korea, and we will continue to do so.'"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/23/AR2010072301387.html

I realize that the know-nothings here will poo-poo this in typical fashion as just more North Korean saber-rattling. But I think this is an example of how a weak president--combined with North Korea's internal issues--creates a dangerous atmosphere.

North Korea's statement threatening a "physical response" is provocative. Despite the apathy of some here and elsewhere about this, I get the distinct feeling that the situation with North Korea is becoming more serious.

7/23/2010 12:11:05 PM

I think the issue is that they aren't acting much differently than they have with any other, "stronger" presidents in recent history. I'm not sure why this would make you feel any more uneasy than when they were first mentioned as an "Axis of Evil" member a decade or so ago and firing test missiles into the sea between the South and Japan...

[Edited on July 23, 2010 at 12:44 PM. Reason : x]

7/23/2010 12:42:29 PM

^ Then you're not considering all the facts.

7/23/2010 3:19:08 PM

North Korea went nuclear under Bush, and Bush responded by essentially agreeing to all of their demands. This is how things have been for at least 20 years now.

7/23/2010 3:28:39 PM

Quote :

"BUSH DID IT"

7/23/2010 5:45:37 PM

What exactly has changed? They've been nuclear this entire decade. They've used aggressive rhetoric this entire decade. They've aggressively tested missiles this entire decade.

It seems that they are doing the same things they have been doing yet it worries you more now because we have a subjectively weaker president?

I don't see any legitimate reason to conclude this is anything more than the North Korea dick swinging that we've seen pretty much monthly for a long, long time.

[Edited on July 23, 2010 at 7:47 PM. Reason : x]

7/23/2010 7:46:00 PM

Then you're obviously a "know-nothing" and you aren't considering all the facts. Now, of course, it's not like hooksaw is going to actually refute any of your points.

Also, in before hooksaw asks me if I have anything on topic to add.

7/23/2010 10:01:43 PM

^ I'll simply ignore that. It deserves it.

^^ What's changed? Ask Obama's DNI nominee--he only has 40-plus years in the U.S. intelligence community:

US spy chief nominee warns of N Korea 'direct attacks'
July 20, 2010

Quote :

"North Korea's sinking of a South Korean warship may herald a 'dangerous new period', the nominee to be US director of national intelligence has warned. James Clapper told a Senate hearing that Pyongyang might seek 'to advance its internal and external political goals through direct attacks'."

Quote :

"At his confirmation hearing on Tuesday, Mr Clapper chose to highlight the growing concerns within the agencies about North Korea's recent actions."

Quote :

"'The most important lesson for all of us in the intelligence community from this year's provocations by Pyongyang is to realise that we may be entering a dangerous new period when North Korea will once again attempt to advance its internal and external political goals through direct attacks on our allies in the Republic of Korea.'"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10707396

You can no longer dismiss this as just more Bush "warmongering" or some such nonsense. The man is an Obama nominee with many years of intelligence experience who will head the United States Intelligence Community--he knows when things are escalating.

In spite of this, I'm sure that some of you will dismiss the situation with North Korea no matter what I post. The apathetic (or trolls) here always do.

BTW, one day you'll learn that I never post anything without sources to support it. One day.

7/24/2010 4:29:04 AM