the american soccer team is one of the tougher teams in the world. we don't have the skill of most other top teams, so we have to play tough. onyewu is probably one of the strongest and most physical defenseman in the world.

6/10/2010 3:08:30 PM

ok fair enough...cause I know the skill level of the euro and latin leagues is better than the skill level of MLS

6/10/2010 3:08:53 PM

Speaking of physical defenders, I'm still waiting for Marvell Wynne to step his ass up to the senior team.

6/10/2010 3:10:59 PM

Quote :

"the american soccer team is one of the tougher teams in the world."

lol

6/10/2010 3:11:29 PM

Hard to say someone is "tough" in a sport that invented the flop.

Or is "tough" supposed to mean "doesn't fall to the ground if looked at funny"?

6/10/2010 3:14:36 PM

^^how can you say the usa isn't one of the tougher teams, in terms of physicality?

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 3:19 PM. Reason : s]

6/10/2010 3:19:09 PM

^^

Quote :

""We're all floppers," Bulls forward P.J. Brown said last month. "We're all out there flopping. Some of us are better actors than others." "Flopping is an art," former All-Star Dominique Wilkins told Page 2's Patrick Hruby last year. "You have to go home and practice it in the mirror. I don't fault guys for it. Especially against great big guys. It's a smart move. For an older veteran, it can be the only advantage you have.""

its okay for basketball to do it though, it being an American sport and all

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neumann/070607

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 3:27 PM. Reason : but it doesn't make you a pussy, just "savvy" or "smart"]

6/10/2010 3:27:10 PM

it didnt get prevalent until Arvidis Sabonis and Vlade Divac came over from Europe to the NBA and started doing it all the time

6/10/2010 3:28:05 PM

how is that relevant?

6/10/2010 3:31:13 PM

AC Green was a virgin til he was 38

i dare you to find me a virgin European soccer player

6/10/2010 3:31:22 PM

wilt chamberlain will ALWAYS win this argument

6/10/2010 3:32:45 PM

^^^because like the article says, "Divac was the forefather of the European flop movement, a man ahead of his time."

Flopping happened before Divac, but Divac really brought his European soccer flopping style to the NBA and was really the catalyst for all the modern day flopping in basketball

6/10/2010 3:33:53 PM

So basically you're argument has denigrated into, "America, Fuck Yeah!"

6/10/2010 3:36:51 PM

when i'm responding to "its okay for basketball to do it though, it being an American sport and all", then yes I'm going to point out how a European player took occasional flopping and took it to another level

if the modern day NBA refs called an average LAL/BOS series from the 80s like they're calling this series, half the players in the series would be suspended for hard fouls...but thats another topic all together

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 3:38 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2010 3:37:35 PM

So just to be clear, you're willing to tolerate it in basketball because Americans didn't have a part in "inventing it?"


So this is all just about being a xenophobe?

6/10/2010 3:38:52 PM

i dont like flopping in any sport

dont call me a xenophobe just because soccer isnt my favorite sport

i'm simply pointing out that flopping wasnt nearly as big in the NBA until European former soccer players like Divac came over and did it more often

bottomline: basketball is just as if not more physical than soccer

there is at least contact in basketball when players flop

dunno though, is there a such things as a "sports xenophobe"? cause i'm not a fan of cricket either

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 3:42 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2010 3:39:34 PM

lol flopping by Americans doesn't matter because they weren't the ones who did it first. stupidest argument ever... especially from somebody who supposedly wins every ST argument they've EVER BEEN IN


I could care less if you liked soccer, I just think its funny when people hate on soccer for flopping when it happens more in basketball, in my opinion. How about kickers who draw roughing the kicker penalties? Savvy? Or it probably just started by some foreign kicker who had no business being in America in the first place, right?



and do you really think soccer fans like the diving that goes on in the sport? None of us are glad when it happens or get excited when our favorite team acquires somebody with a rep of doing it

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2010 3:41:43 PM

tony meola started flopping in football, he was a soccer player!

6/10/2010 3:42:41 PM

more importantly:

Quote :

"BASICALLY YOU'RE ARGUMENT"

6/10/2010 3:42:49 PM

Quote :

"lol flopping by Americans doesn't matter because they weren't the ones who did it first."

Quote :

"i dont like flopping in any sport"

Quote :

"its funny when people hate on soccer for flopping when it happens more in basketball"

it happens plenty in basketball, more than i would like...but in basketball, there is generally at least full body contact, somebody lowering a shoulder or elbow, somebody running down court at full speed...there is at least some contact

whereas i could get on youtube right now and in 5 minutes find 10 examples of soccer flops with absolutely no physical contact whatsoever

but look, flopping sucks in all sports

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 3:46 PM. Reason : .........................]

6/10/2010 3:42:51 PM

Quote :

"but in basketball, there is generally at least full body contact"

lol, whatever makes you feel better about yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ukde193ivM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNN9ZiH38fs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEef1T_lqwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2FG1WAry08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdERYOtqsg

6/10/2010 3:51:37 PM

anyone who thinks basketball doesn't get rough and have full body contact plays with a bunch of pussies or doesn't play at all.

6/10/2010 3:57:09 PM

^^were all those flops? YES

did all those have some type of contact? YES

maybe "full body contact" was the wrong phrase, but there was contact...not contact enough to warrant the falls, but contact nonetheless

whereas in a play like this, the guy who takes a dive literally has no physical contact from anything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W00d3yJKl4

here's another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMuS4ynSog

I have yet to see a basketball player flop with literally no contact

6/10/2010 3:57:28 PM

So to sum this up, aimorris is mad.

6/10/2010 3:58:12 PM

^^^ I agree, but swap soccer in for basketball and the same exact statement applies.

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 4:02 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2010 3:59:39 PM

^^^^ I like basketball, football, and baseball... I'm not trying to make this into a us vs. them argument because I like all sports. But for everybody that wants to act like football/basketball/baseball is soooo badass and none of the bullshit that goes on in soccer doesn't in their own is full of it


look if you want to rationalize it by noting the varying levels of contact, do whatever makes you feel better. It's still faking and cheating the game... just like diving in soccer.

^^^ oh and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPBJ_6y_5A

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 4:03 PM. Reason : no contact?]

6/10/2010 4:02:06 PM

^^ oh I agree. Doesn't change that basketball >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soccer though

6/10/2010 4:03:53 PM

^^in fairness, the refs didn't call a charge on that Paulus flop (thank god)

and ftr, if a 6'2" guard doesnt think he can stop a 6'6" forward on a fast break so he wants to draw a legit charge, thats one thing...when a center like hansbrough wants to draw one instead of doing what a center is supposed to do and contesting a shot, thats pretty weak imo, even if he has position and gets his feet set

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2010 4:04:31 PM

Quote :

"ok fair enough...cause I know the skill level of the euro and latin leagues is better than the skill level of MLS but I'm going to continue to talk about shit I have little knowledge of"

6/10/2010 4:06:11 PM

Quote :

"I know the skill level of the euro and latin leagues is better than the skill level of MLS"

i'd love to hear you argue otherwise, i'm sure the soccer fans ITT would also get some good laughs of you arguing otherwise

you must really be trolling me hardcore to have a problem with me stating that leagues like EPL and UEFA have better soccer than the MLS

6/10/2010 4:07:16 PM

Quote :

"^^ oh I agree. Doesn't change that basketball >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soccer though "

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy playing basketball and enjoy watching college basketball quite a bit, but I enjoy watching soccer more. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that I played soccer competitively growing up whereas basketball was just a recreational in the neighborhood or gym thing for me growing up (I wrestled for 12 years so that was my competitive winter sport).

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 4:08 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2010 4:07:32 PM

Quote :

"i'd love to hear you argue otherwise, i'm sure the soccer fans ITT would also get some good laughs of you arguing otherwise"

I'm not arguing that. I'm talking about how all your points keep getting shot down, so you'll say "fair enough" (which is the same thing as admitting you're wrong), then you just try and say something that you know is correct, but does absolutely nothing to back up any of the points you've been trying to make. At no point has anyone in this thread argued that American soccer players are more skilled than Europeans. You've been arguing "toughness" and your arguments got shot down.

Now I have no idea what you're trying to prove.

6/10/2010 4:10:09 PM

the only point to which i admitted i was wrong was calling MLS a pussy league, since apparently they deal with their lack of skill by being more physical...i happily admitted i was wrong

but please remove yourself from my testicles, thats the only thing thats gotten shot down, and God didn't even agree with what Winger said

Quote :

"At no point has anyone in this thread argued that American soccer players are more skilled than Europeans."

When I said the euro leagues had more skilled players than the MLS, you struck through the text...sounds to me like you didn't agree with that point, which would be you arguing that I was wrong about euro vs MLS skill levels

Quote :

"You've been arguing "toughness" and your arguments got shot down."

yet many people agree with my arguments on toughness...

6/10/2010 4:12:06 PM

Quote :

"whereas in a play like this, the guy who takes a dive literally has no physical contact from anything"

Uh yeah, but as you saw the guy got a card for that. They're really strict about flopping in soccer.

Show me a player getting penalized for flopping in basketball. I'll wait.

6/10/2010 4:13:52 PM

they get penalized for flopping in basketball by being on the floor and not being able to get back down court on time for the next possession...it happens every game

and basketball officiating has plenty of its own problems

6/10/2010 4:14:54 PM

You haven't made any sense in this thread and then you throw out an obvious statement like,

"Well the European players are more skilled..."

No. Fucking. Shit. Pat yourself on the back.

Here's an easy way to possibly compare the "physicality" and "toughness" of all sports.

Let's take a normal male (let's say 5'10", 180lbs) with average physical ability. Put that guy in a professional rugby, football, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, etc. game.

When each game is over that guy is going to be extremely fucked up from rugby, a little less fucked up, but still really bad off, after the football game. Probably the same with hockey.

Unless he gets beaned in the head, he'll be perfectly fine after a baseball game.

The guy will be just as beat up (if not more...i'd probably say more) after the soccer game as he would the basketball game.

Quote :

"When I said the euro leagues had more skilled players than the MLS, you struck through the text"

My point was to highlight your, "Ok, fair enough" portion of the statement.

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2010 4:17:49 PM

i agree about rugby, football, hockey

i pretty much agree about baseball, although theres a reason pitchers dont play every day, but i agree about your average position player

after a soccer game, you will have sore legs, and probably a few bruises where you've been kicked

after a basketball game, you will have sore legs, and probably a few bruises where you've been elbowed or shouldered...and if you're really trying you might have some burns from diving for loose balls

also while soccer might be the most continuous sport, ie pace of game...there are still plenty of stoppages for penalties, out of bounds, etc...people act like they run for 90 minutes straight...they don't even run half the time when the ball is on the opposite side of the field

6/10/2010 4:21:25 PM

so what exactly is the point of all this?



You don't like soccer because you just don't like the sport. Quit with all the diving, pussy, time-stoppage arguments and leave it at that. That's my main problem with soccer haters.

6/10/2010 4:23:28 PM

I'm not a big fan of the sport...but its because of the reasons you're saying to ignore...I have a fundamental problem with subjective time keeping in a professional competitive event

If you have a problem with soccer haters, go post in the World Cup thread...notice how my posts there are not controversial, not negative, etc

This however, is the "official i hate soccer thread"

6/10/2010 4:24:25 PM

6 pages im not gonna read

6/10/2010 4:25:16 PM

I've never seen a game of soccer played with the same level of physicality as a game of basketball. It's just a bunch of dudes, standing around, waiting for the ball to come near them, and like 3 guys on each team running.

Then again, I barely watch soccer because watching people meander around a massive field is boring as sin.

6/10/2010 4:26:36 PM

you either need to stop using 15 year old rec soccer games as your frame of reference or pay closer attention. I enjoy both sports and can understand why some people like one more than the other, but the level of physicality is there without a doubt. Anyone who doesn't think so just doesn't watch competitive games or has never played at a relatively competitive level and that is fine. But just know your opinion weighs in pretty light in the argument.

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 4:49 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2010 4:48:59 PM

why does everybody fall for this every 4 years???

6/10/2010 4:56:20 PM

haha mostly bc of boredom at work

6/10/2010 5:04:02 PM

wow.

6/10/2010 6:39:01 PM

susikastan is gonna surprise some people this year

6/10/2010 6:43:36 PM

Quote :

"http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-philbin/2010/06/09/media-make-selling-soccer-goal"

i just wanted to add that this was an absolutely horribly written article. it was inane and not even well written.

6/10/2010 6:46:59 PM

It still had lots of quotes from different people with links to the sources...people all around the world

While the piece itself was very biased, you kind of have to take the quotes for what they are

6/10/2010 6:49:58 PM

Not really. They were half quotes taken out of context that supported nothing? Joe Scarborough on why Americans don't like soccer? Get the fuck out...

6/10/2010 6:55:33 PM

here's the thing. the US has, far and away, the most superior athletes in the world. I fully believe that. If those athletes like Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Reggie Bush, Chad Ocho-Cinco, etc picked up a soccer ball when they were kids instead of basketballs or footballs, the US would have the most electrifying brand of soccer on the planet. I don't think there is any denying that. And to top it all off, they'd all be making more money than they are now.

comparing the physicality/athleticism/skill/whatever of one sport to another is a worthless pissing contest. Most "athletes" can transfer their skills to another sport that requires a full range of talent. players like onyewu/altidore/dempsey could probably have been successful in other sports had they tried. and world-class athletes like drogba/ronaldo/etc would be household names if they grew up in the states playing basketball or football.

Quote :

"Baseball is too intimidating, football too brutal, and basketball takes too much time to develop the required skills ... Soccer is the perfect antidote to television and video games. It forces kids to run and run, and everyone can play their role, no matter how minor or irrelevant to the game."

but to sit here and quote this piece of shit opinion shows that you just don't care to put forth the effort to understand the game. whatever, that's fine, but don't marginalize the game because you don't get it. nobody who has played both soccer or basketball will try and argue that one requires more skill than another.


and seriously, quit citing this article. useless quotes from useless people don't add any credibility to that opinion piece. in the above quote, he simply states that soccer doesn't require skill. that's the entire basis for his argument (along with it being liberal, which is beyond stupid). that's his worthless opinion about a sport he knows nothing about.

[Edited on June 10, 2010 at 6:57 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2010 6:55:34 PM