Game tonight if anyone is interested. PM moi.

10/24/2005 4:40:53 PM

placed 2nd at a pokertaverns event at playmakers tonight. i don't think many people there knew what they were doing, except probably me, Drovkin and the guy who won. ol D got busted on a lucky river to the winner early on, so he wasn't around to take my chips pretty fun experience though

10/24/2005 11:44:17 PM

yeah, if you couldn't tell by my away message, i was pissed about that

haha

10/24/2005 11:59:19 PM

Quote :

"dude, stop posting every hand you play, it's getting old"

Yes, thats every hand I played. I played three hands today, posted them all on here and quit.

10/25/2005 12:13:42 AM

page 53 wants somone to be my referall at absolute and split the 100.00 bonus with me.


50.00 depost + 100 raked hands = 50.00 for you

kthx

10/25/2005 3:30:39 AM

dude

absolute offers more reloads than you could possibly ever clear.

the bonus is basically bottomless.....

theres no sense in what you are asking.

10/25/2005 8:43:46 AM

^ referral bonus only requires 100 raked hands to clear.


Not 100 points per 10.00

10/25/2005 1:21:48 PM

Anyone interested in playing tonight. Solid 25/50 game in North Raleigh. Got 5 already, plus a few maybes... could use a few more

PM for details

10/25/2005 4:17:25 PM

^ I'm going.

^^^ I've cleared all mine.

10/25/2005 5:29:28 PM

if youve cleared their basically weekly 20% up to $200 reloads,

then you play a shitton

and its stackable.

before they changed and started expiring, i had over 1.5k in bonuses stacked.

[Edited on October 25, 2005 at 7:57 PM. Reason : e ]

10/25/2005 7:57:14 PM

im confused.

how do 10x 25c rake or > reload bonuses compare to somone wanting to deposit 50 and split a 100.00 referral bonus with me by playing 100 raked hands.

10/25/2005 8:13:36 PM

Two consecutive hands just now, completely ridiculous.

***** Hand History for Game 2931190814 *****
$1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, October 25, 20:24:24 EDT 2005
Table Table 65042 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: PhilDluck ( $121.76 )
Seat 4: Buster4420 ( $76.50 )
Seat 5: MrPrsonality ( $62.75 )
Seat 10: sonofluger86 ( $78.62 )
Seat 9: AK47MAN2 ( $223.50 )
Seat 8: sunflower10 ( $70 )
Seat 7: Daz25 ( $39 )
Seat 6: y8ty8 ( $50 )
Seat 2: hawksfc ( $50 )
Seat 1: Nut_Hand ( $22.50 )
Buster4420 posts small blind [$0.50].
MrPrsonality posts big blind [$1].
AK47MAN2 posts big blind + dead [$1.50].
Nut_Hand posts big blind [$1].
hawksfc posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MrPrsonality [ 3s 3c ]
Daz25 folds.
sunflower10 raises [$2].
AK47MAN2 calls [$1].
Nut_Hand folds.
hawksfc folds.
PhilDluck folds.
Buster4420 calls [$1.50].
MrPrsonality calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 4s, 5s ]
Buster4420 bets [$1].
MrPrsonality calls [$1].
sunflower10 raises [$2].
AK47MAN2 calls [$2].
Buster4420 calls [$1].
MrPrsonality calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
Buster4420 bets [$2].
MrPrsonality calls [$2].
sunflower10 raises [$4].
A
K47MAN2 folds.
Buster4420 calls [$2].
MrPrsonality raises [$4].
sunflower10 calls [$2].
Buster4420 folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
MrPrsonality bets [$2].
sunflower10 calls [$2].
MrPrsonality shows [ 3s, 3c ] a straight flush, seven high.
sunflower10 doesn't show [ Ac, As ] a flush, ace high.
MrPrsonality wins $37.50 from the main pot with a straight flush, seven high.

***** Hand History for Game 2931201036 *****
$1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, October 25, 20:26:27 EDT 2005
Table Table 65042 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: PhilDluck ( $121.76 )
Seat 4: Buster4420 ( $68.50 )
Seat 5: MrPrsonality ( $88.25 )
Seat 10: sonofluger86 ( $78.62 )
Seat 9: AK47MAN2 ( $219 )
Seat 8: sunflower10 ( $58 )
Seat 7: Daz25 ( $39 )
Seat 6: y8ty8 ( $50 )
Seat 2: hawksfc ( $49 )
Seat 1: Nut_Hand ( $21.50 )
MrPrsonality posts small blind [$0.50].
Daz25 posts big blind [$1].
sonofluger86 posts big blind + dead [$1.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MrPrsonality [ 2d 2h ]
sunflower10 calls [$1].
AK47MAN2 calls [$1].
sonofluger86 checks.
Nut_Hand folds.
hawksfc folds.
PhilDluck calls [$1].
Buster4420 folds.
MrPrsonality calls [$0.50].
Daz25 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 2s, 3h ]
MrPrsonality checks.
Daz25 bets [$1].
sunflower10 folds.
AK47MAN2 folds.
sonofluger86 folds.
PhilDluck folds.
MrPrsonality calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
MrPrsonality checks.
Daz25 bets [$2].
MrPrsonality calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
MrPrsonality bets [$2].
Daz25 raises [$4].
MrPrsonality raises [$4].
Daz25 calls [$2].
MrPrsonality shows [ 2d, 2h ] four of a kind, twos.
Daz25 doesn't show [ 3c, 8s ] two pairs, eights and threes.
MrPrsonality wins $23.50 from the main pot with four of a kind, twos.

10/25/2005 8:30:49 PM

in the bodog freeroll right now, 44 people left out of 1000 and the damn server goes out

10/26/2005 12:58:46 AM

pleased with myself for my 42nd place finish(out of 929) in tonights 60k R&A on paradise. I dont usually play the big buy-ins like this so i was happy with my play

10/26/2005 2:09:11 AM

^um...what was the buy-in?

10/26/2005 2:19:33 AM

probably around 60. The biggest I've played in was a 200 + 16. I finished 4 out of the money in 104th :-(

10/26/2005 8:36:16 AM

^^ $30 (i guess thats not a real big buy-in , but i did add on for another $30 at the first break)... the prize pool got close to 80k

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 1:52 PM. Reason : r]

10/26/2005 1:49:49 PM

Quote :

"buzzard512: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to buzzard512 [4c 5c] taxman4000: raises 120 to 150 deegigi: folds Holdem Mama: folds whyok: folds JTT21: calls 150 dhh01007: folds Britech: folds buzzard512: calls 120 *** FLOP *** [4h Qd 4s] buzzard512: checks taxman4000: bets 210 JTT21: folds buzzard512: raises 450 to 660 taxman4000: raises 1160 to 1820 and is all-in buzzard512: calls 1160 *** TURN *** [4h Qd 4s] [Qc] *** RIVER *** [4h Qd 4s Qc] [4d] *** SHOW DOWN *** buzzard512: shows [4c 5c] (four of a kind, Fours) taxman4000: shows [Qh Jd] (a full house, Queens full of Fours) buzzard512 collected 4105 from pot"

you gotta love the re-suckout

aha

10/26/2005 9:50:44 PM

The way i ended up playing this hand last night has been bothering me this whole morning. I think that I really messed up and missed some bets here.

3 handed 1/2 nl,

stack sizes.

me (~$250) Button
old guy (~$350) BB (wildly loose some times, but would pop up with a monster occasionally... had build a large stack, but since three handed, had dropped about 200 to me and the other guy)
young tilting guy stuck about 700 (~$350) SB

I raise in the button to $7 with KdJd
SB calls,
BB calls.

Flop: As Qc 6d
SB checks,
BB checks,
I decided to peel a free card (I was obviously by far the most aggressive in the SH game thus far, and if I hit, i didnt want to take down the initail calls... it was worth the risk. I also knew that the game was to break in about 1/2 hour, as it was nearly 4 am already.)

Turn: Th

nut straight, no flush draws, etc.

SB checks
BB bets out $4.
I raise to $8
SB reraises to $15
BB calls the $11 raise to $15.

What do you do here?

10/27/2005 9:00:18 AM

With this mostly limited amount of info, I'd put the Old Guy on a semi-bluff of some sorts, and the SB with JJ.

I might come back over top pretty hard to isolate on one of them. If both call then it of course gets pretty tough.

You are better than me anyway, and like I said, this is limited info.

10/27/2005 9:30:03 AM

fold before you got yourself into trouble and realize you were on a ONE card draw

10/27/2005 11:42:43 AM

^?

maybe raise it up to 40 and one guy will call and the other will fold. my guess would be that the caller has trip 10's or two pair. either way, he has a 20% at best to outdraw you.

10/27/2005 11:48:16 AM

If I have the nuts on the turn, I always bet the shit out of it. especially if there was a raise preflop or a bet on the flop. The way I see it is, you obviously have the nuts (duh). But I also think if the board pairs, you probably lose. Those guys have at the very least 2 pair, and probably trips. It is also conceivable that someone already has you tied with KJ. My gut instinct tells me one of them has A10 and another has 66, but it is so hard to tell online, especially with you only describing one hand. If indeed those are the hands they hold, then you are in great shape because they would only have 8 outs on the river to pair the board.

I like to play the game "What are they thinking?" They don't have you on KJ. They probably think you have something along the lines of AK or maybe even A with a shitty kicker. Obviously, at least one of them can beat AK, and like I said, they probably both can. So if they THINK you have AK then you better sure as hell bet the piss out of it, because they will likely call whatever bet you throw out, thinking they are about to take your stack. I would reraise to about $75 and hope for the guy who has a set to push all-in. Sure you might get outdrawn, but you are probably about 80% here so the risk is of course worth it.

10/27/2005 12:17:30 PM

Another reason for the big bet is to pot commit them in case a card comes that weakens your hand but still gives you the win, such as a K or a J. If they have trips and are already into the pot for $100, they are more likely to call a big bet on the river with 4 to a straight on the board, thinking you are bluffing. But if you don't get these guys in the pot, odds are you couldn't make any money if a K or J fell.

10/27/2005 12:20:31 PM

oops, read it wrong, bet a little to keep both of em in and then bet the river strong

10/27/2005 1:44:15 PM

no way, one of those cocksmokers is sitting on pocket 10s or something and is gonna catch a board pair on the river if you dont bet em out

10/27/2005 2:33:41 PM

hmmm, tough decision.

You know you have the nuts. But there is still 1 card out. You could possibly save yourself some cash if the board paired on 5th and just call. Fake weakness and hope to pull a bigger bet out of out him on the river. A reraise here and you really give your hand away, but could get them out of the pot and not risk a suckout.

Depending on what they have, you have to wonder is 3 people calling small bets will get you more that reraising huge to try and isolate.

I think a small reraise would be appropriate here. It looks like it went 4-8-15, so a raise to 30ish(total) would be inline to get a better read on their hands. Plus you are in position and it would prolly check to you, if they pair the board you can always check it down.

10/27/2005 2:46:05 PM

I thought about this hand a lot the past hour or so. I definitely stand by my first instinct to bet your hand hard.

Using the info you provided only, here's what I think. I think the SB (the guy on tilt) has a weak ace, maybe 2 pair. From the outside looking in, I could see him thinking something along these lines. He sees you raising a lot all night and playing very aggressively, and it's frustrating him. Maybe you outplayed him a couple hands and maybe he's been outdrawn on some questionable hands, I really don't know. But the fact is, this guy wants to make a move. He flops a pair of aces, and figures they are golden 3 handed. Perhaps he checks after the flop with the specific intention of check-raising you, but when you don't bet, it REALLY makes him think his A is good.

The turn puts a straight on the board, but no way he has you on KJ. He sees the BB bet on the turn, a classic sign of a player trying to "purchase the pot" after they are confident nobody hit the flop. You come over the top but only double the initial bet. This bet, to me says one of two things. Either you have a monster and you want a caller, or you are simply being ultra-agressive and you don't believe the BB actually has anything. The SB, confident with his A, and believing you to be doing the latter, comes over the top.

Now, seeing the BB call let's me know he at least has the A, very minimum. Perhaps he has 2 pair, perhaps a set, perhaps AJ. I think he knows it's very possible he is behind in the hand, but that a good river will pay him out, so he just calls.

Now there is roughly $70 in the pot. If the SB is truly on tilt, then I don't think he will fold his A. I would raise here to $75. I can't imagine you not getting a caller here. I think that the SB would call you down with A-x, and he would definitely call you down with a set. If I am watching this hand, it appears you are representing AA (not KJ like you actually have) because this really looks like someone playing AA. So, the SB will likely think his A is good (all 4 A's couldn't really be out, right??) At this point, I assume the BB would fold to you behind all the raises and a caller, even though I have a feeling the SB hand might be the weakest at the table. On the turn I would then push.... he's pot committed and he calls.

I am very interested to know what these people had.

10/27/2005 3:07:47 PM

Ok, heres what happened/my thinking.

The range of hands im probably sitting against include, KJ for the split, AA, QQ, TT, 66, AQ, AT, QT, Q6, AK.

Now if youve ever played SH with me, i raise alot. it gets to people, and they start calling with less than marginal hands. so i will not count out any of the possibilities here.

Cards Id like to avoid seeing on the river.

an A, Q, 6, T, K, J The last two being the least worrisome.


the check reraise by the sb screams slowplayed set to me. for the old guy, i put him on two pair, but more than likely just a pair of aces.

So in this situation on an average occasion, im thinking that at least three of the remaining A,Q,6,T cards are dead in hands. so, for the board to pair, there are 9 outs. 9/(52-4-2-3) = ~21% You could probably safely assume 3.5 dead, but well veer towards conservative.

The ten seems like a bit of a somewhat safe card for a set, esp. since it put a total rainbow on the board and I didnt throw a bet out on the flop with a gutshot. (which i'll do with decent frequency on a three handed game, and I believe that they know this)

So i decided to put out a bet that I figured would leave one of 4 possible scenarios.

1.) KJ reraises all in. play is straight forward from here.
2.) set calls and feels committed to calling my push on a brick river. due to my large raise, unless they have AA, they must be worried about their boat if the board pairs. I am likely to get a free showdown.
3.) ding-a-ling with two pair is drawing to 4 outs, but would probably fold.
4.) set calls, and old guy feels like the pot is large enough to chase his garbage and will tag along for the ride.


I raise $75.

I realize this was an overbet. I did not realize this at the time.... I doubt either of them did either... the beer flowed freely on that side of the table.

SB thinks for about 4 mintues, folds. old guy folds with a quickness.

SB flips Q6h for bottom two. Old guy doesnt show/say.

One thing that I tend to do too much is play a very high variance brand of poker. Maybe this wasnt the best decision here, but it was a bet that I put a set on either calling, or shoving agasint. (remember three handed)

Quote :

"I might come back over top pretty hard to isolate on one of them. If both call then it of course gets pretty tough"

Why would this be tough? This is ideal. the play after the river is straight forward i think, and even if the board pairs, unless someone quaded, ill get a nice free showdown.



FeebleMinded, once again, dead on. gg.


My whole though is that, maybe raising to something like 40-50 may have been the better play. however, i do think that probably at least 75% of the time there im up against a set that will call that bet exactly as i wanted. The only problem with this, is that a set now has great odds. esp. if it is set vs set vs straight, or something esle wacky like that.


meh.

there are a few more hands from last night that ill post later to get more of your responses.

10/27/2005 3:14:25 PM

nice reply there jim, while im writing the response

see, this type of discussion is what i wish this thread would evolve to.

10/27/2005 3:19:20 PM

I am glad you ended up Ben I was worried for awhile.


I bought new cards (KEMs and Copags) for next week because I think all the shitty cards live in his decks. I will loan them to the game

10/27/2005 4:53:10 PM

^^^ I think the $75 bet is a good, safe play for that scenario. Anyone with a set has a 25% chance sucking out on you. My first reaction was the BB was fishing with a decent hand, AJ sounds like a reasonable enough estimate. The SB has to have two pair or a set, but I actually have him on Q-10, Q-6, or possibly 66. Any other holding increases the chance of him raising pre-flop, though I don't know what hands are in his range for raising.

21$ in before the flop, $38 more on the turn before you act. By the numbers, a $40 bet still makes it a mistake to call with less than a straight UNLESS you expect two callers. Personally, I think the old guy is fishing, so perhaps $60 will be enough to boot him even if the SB calls.

The problem is that raising here announces you have a straight. Up until this point they've pegged you for less. It's a risky business, but I'd probably have gotten greedy and raised only to $40-50, hell maybe even less. With a set true one of 'em with suckout 25% of the time, but a player on tilt and a loose old guy are less likely to have either. It's a risk of 40-50 bucks to make texas$, tough call...

10/27/2005 6:44:10 PM

Hand number 2 from wednesday night.

7CS - long time mid-high stakes 7 card stud player, learning holdem. I like to play in the seat next to him, and hwen hes not in a hand, ill let him sweat my cards occasionally. Post hand, discuss why I did what I did, etc. Hes a really nice guy and I like to keep on his good side, he generally donates several buy ins each week. Him busting in a 200 game isnt that big of a deal to a guy with experience at a primed 75/150 7 card stud game. know what i mean? He only seems to raise preflop with AA, KK, and never calls a raise with AK (says he never wins with it, will only limp).

Ok, Its early into my game, I had just sat down maybe 30 minutes before. 7CS is sitting to my right. we are in middle late position. I only have about $77 in front of me after getting rocked by a massive drawing hand that never came through. 7CS has about $120 left.

dealt 5h 5d.

SB/BB post (stack sizes meaningless)
3 limpers, 7CS limps
I limp also, button folds.
pot $14

Flop: Ah 5s 9s

checks around, 7CS bets $25.

you?

(just so its known, i feel pretty certian that I made one of the most agregious errors ive made in a long time during the course of this hand.)

10/28/2005 11:09:45 AM

Well from what you say, you're probably looking at one of the following hands: AK, A9, A5, 95, or 99. If he always raises with AA, then obviously he doesn't have that, unless he's decided to slow play for once. I would say AK, A9, or 99 are the most likely, and he's just trying to bet out the flush draw. He obviously thinks he is strong, so you just have to figure out how strong he really is.

If this were me, I say to myself at this point "I am playing this hand to the river... now how can I get him to match my all-in?" I would probably double his bet, making it $50 to go. I doubt he's bluffing, so he is probably going to call or push you all-in. If for some reason he's on the bluff, you take the pot down there and it's a moot point. If he just calls you push all-in on the turn.

Sure, there's an off chance you're beat here, but being short stacked with a chance to more than double up, I wouldn't even think of folding. My guess is he's on A9, but that's just a guess.

10/28/2005 12:19:00 PM

ok ben, it's been two hours. what happened?

10/28/2005 1:10:51 PM

You know I love reading what you write Jim. I mean, I know what happens, but it is interesting to see it from where you are looking at it. I mean these hands go so quick and when you aren't in them you only see the result.

You seen any good hands lately?

10/28/2005 1:16:17 PM

Not really since my KK vs AA vs KK fiasco.

There's a commercial for one of those poker sites, I forget what it is, but they have Howard Lederer and Phil Ivey and maybe others saying "Poker... it's about everything but the cards". I hate that commercial, because when you play online, in my opinion, that's all it's about. Obviously it's just a big marketing ploy, but it rubs me the wrong way.

However, that being said, when you're playing live poker, I believe that saying to be true. I love to replay hands in my head, thinking where I might have made a good play, where I might have made a bad play... if there was ever a point in a hand where I might have overbet or underbet. Generally, I would say like 80% of the time, there is a point in every hand that I make a mistake. I consider myself a good player, but there is still so much to learn. Whether I miss a tell, fail to reraise someone who I think is on a draw, bluff a loose player, or call a tight player with a weak hand, there is almost ALWAYS a point in a hand where I can win the hand, or increase the amount I win.

I like playing these "What would you do?" scenarios out. Of course, I think when I do I faulter more towards my online style of play (tight and ultra-aggressive when I am holding the a good hand). It's hard to assess a situation if you haven't been sitting at the table for a while. I have to take Ben's word on certain situations . Maybe he makes a different read than I do (I won't even speculate on who is right... only different). Maybe he picks up on something I don't, who knows? It's just interesting to assess the situation and put yourself into someone elses shoes, to think to yourself "What would make me do what that guy just did?" (Sometimes the answer is crack, but that's beside the point.)

10/28/2005 2:30:36 PM

Just curious, how is jim "right on" when he said exactly what you did and you feel you lost a bet in the situation?

The second one, I can not see a $25 reraise leaving you with only $22 dollars total left. That is less than his initial bet he made. Feels like you call or go all in. You know he raises AA, so that is out. It is very tricky, and flopping a set, you SHOULD be in a good position. Really not sure since that is well over the limits I play. But I think a strong all-in would be in order. Either way, all you money is expected to be in the pot, why not all at once instead of stringing him out.

I woulda strung out the first one to get more money in the pot, this one I would play fast. But I have sucked lately, so just fade my advice!

10/28/2005 3:57:33 PM

some dickhead got 3 aces and 2 queens and i had 3 queens and 2 aces and he beat me and i was pissed

10/29/2005 2:53:45 PM

i dont get who pot odds work?

how can a ace/10 of hearts be pot odds like 41 percetn but a jack/8 of spades is only 27.27

10/29/2005 3:38:52 PM

^

An example from what happened two nights ago:

I was holding pocket jacks (JJ) so I raised to $1 (it was a small game). I got two callers.
The flop came J 6(clubs) 2(clubs). Seat 1 was first to act and Bet $1 making the pot $5 total. At this point I raised to $5 to make it appear I was trying to steal the pot making it $10 total and $5 to go. Seat 3 called making the total pot $15. Seat 1 went all in which was effectively $35 to me (my amount left) and $15 to the guy on my left who would be all in at that point.

It is $35 to me to call and I figure Seat 1 is on a flush draw and that is my worst case scenario. I figure I'm getting at a minimum a 70% win rate and that makes the pot $85 assuming guy to my left does not call (he ended up not calling after I did).

EV for myself: 0.7*85 = $59.50 (the 0.7 is seventy percent) - my bet of $35 making my Expected value very positive meaning I should take the bet every time because on average i'm going to win money.

EV for Seat 1 on the flush draw: His chance of winning is 27% EV = 0.27 * 50 = 13.5 - his $35 bet making his EV -$21.50 which is negative meaning he loses money in the long run. You only take into account what's in the pot not that I would probably have called. Clearly that is a really bad bet because he can expect to lose $21.50 per hand on average.

In my case what happened was that the turn came another J giving me four of a kind.

PS I think this is a decent explanation of pot odds and EV if I'm off correct me.

10/29/2005 4:12:55 PM

so if you took that -21 dollar bet then you would basically be hoping you got lucky on the flop?

and whats the highest pot odds you can get?...i think i saw a 42.5%

whats like the minimum percent you should use to not take a bet

10/29/2005 6:20:48 PM

ha ha ha ha ha

10/29/2005 8:40:36 PM

poor phil, he should know AQ never wins

10/29/2005 8:43:45 PM

Quote :

"In his useful if absurdly braggadocio primer "Play Poker Like the Pros," Phil Hellmuth puts A-Q in the same category with small pairs, while rating A-K closer in value to nines, 10s and jacks. He advises even tight beginners to take a flop with A-Q, but as cheaply as possible. "

10/29/2005 8:48:27 PM

it really is, i've lost a lot more than i've won with it

10/29/2005 8:54:33 PM

i dont play anything with a Q except for pocket queens

probably homophobia, maybe cause i like lesbians. i dunno.

10/29/2005 8:57:22 PM

i've noticed a/q aint never done shit for me either

[Edited on October 29, 2005 at 9:31 PM. Reason : other part made me sound dumb]

10/29/2005 9:31:10 PM

AQ is a great hand.

10/30/2005 12:03:07 AM

good grief...

playing PL Holdem tonight on Prima. I built $50 into $300 then back down to $250 to end the night. a dude came in with $5 and in 20 minutes had built it into $140!!!. it was a pretty rediculous table all around. lots of fishing and lots of straights.

10/30/2005 1:28:59 AM