http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/11/cruz-rallies-conservatives-against-obamacare-ahead-white-house-talks/

10/11/2013 1:35:51 PM

10/11/2013 4:43:24 PM

are you trolling or serious?

10/11/2013 5:14:08 PM

Quote :

"The most recent NBC/WSJ poll comprised of 43 percent who identified themselves as Democrats (either strongly, not very strongly or lean), 32 percent who identified themselves as Republicans (either strongly, not very strongly, or lean), and another 19 percent who are strictly independent. That 11-point Democratic advantage is consistent with the combined data for all of the NBC/WSJ polls this year – a 13-point Democratic edge. Moreover, the poll did show that 20 percent said someone in their household was a government worker (either local, state, or federal). But the NBC/WSJ pollsters say that such a result is consistent with other polls and statistical data. (After all, military personnel and teachers would be considered government workers.) The results in the poll were nonetheless dismal for Republicans. Seventy percent of Americans expressed an unfavorable opinion of the way Republicans in Congress are handling their jobs, and Cruz's own numbers took a turn toward the negative. The number of Americans who view the freshman senator negatively more than doubled since June, from 12 percent to 28 percent."

So of course the Republicans are indeed choking on dick, but I thought this was important to note since Shrike is an annoying fanboy and didn't link the article.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/11/20924466-cruz-scoffs-at-nbcwsj-poll-thats-not-reflective-of-where-this-country-is?lite

10/11/2013 8:49:14 PM

If you needed a poll to tell you that then you're a fucking moron

10/11/2013 9:21:44 PM

Quote :

"Lots of the morons on golo swear by this view. Anytime anybody mentions any fault of the republicans, there response is something like "You idiot sheep, you believe everything the MSM says, but this is alllll "Mr. I Will Not Negotiate"'s fault!!!!!""

To be fair, there is some truth to the claim that Obama is now refusing to negotiate. Let's face it "I'm willing to talk when you give me everything I want" isn't exactly "negotiating." But, Obama's also playing it like that because there's no downside for him. The 'pubs are going to take the blame, no matter what Obama does to lengthen the shutdown (short of leaving the country to hike the Appalachian trail in Argentina without telling anyone where the hell he went). Yes, Obama is now being a bit of a d-bag, but the Republicans basically handed him a free pass to do that.

10/11/2013 9:31:18 PM

To recap aaronburro's post:

Passing a sequester level continuing resolution and raising the debt limit is giving Obama everything he wants. In fact, Obama is a giant douche nozzle for insisting on those things.

10/11/2013 11:07:46 PM

Considering those are literally the only things being talked about right now and are the only "leverage" the Republicans have whatsoever, yes, yes it is.

10/11/2013 11:30:03 PM

burro and the Republicans are full of shit because Boehner won't even let a clean CR or debt ceiling vote come to the floor.

Passing things that are good for the country shouldn't be so fucking difficult but they're trying to keep a minority of Republicans happy by giving in to their batshit crazy demands. This is 100% on the Republicans, as it should be.

10/11/2013 11:35:11 PM

we elected a black president; we should have been fully prepared for our credit rating to be fucked up by the end of this.

the House is doing exactly what they were elected to do. It will be interesting to see how long this goes on, because there is nothing to be gained unless the republicans ride this stalemate out well past the point of no money left. Giving up now will ensure that Democrats regain control of everything in the next election, but riding it out until everything goes to shit will spread the blame equally. It will also force Obama to come off of his no negotiations high horse and make some concessions.

10/11/2013 11:54:05 PM

not wanting the country to default == being on a high horse

Alrighty then.

I'm not sure what Republicans want. The budget sitting in the Senate right now--you know, the one Republicans have been keeping out of joint committee for the better part of a year--locks in sequester level spending (it's also the same budget Boehner was OK with a month or to ago). Obama has previously indicated a willingness to work on chained CPI, means testing, and raising the retirement age. What else do they want?

10/12/2013 1:27:43 AM

Quote :

"For future Speakers of the House and majority leaders: threaten the US government or it's credit rating and end up like John Boehner."

Something tells me that obama will fold in the end.

10/12/2013 4:24:04 AM

What's funny is people pretending that what Obama has been doing the past 2 weeks is any different than what Republicans have done since the day he took office. Refusing to negotiate, refusing to budge, blocking every single initiative that the President has proposed is the reason not one single piece of meaningful legislation has been passed since the GOP House takeover in 2010.

I really don't think Obama is going to cave this time. I'm sure part of him wants to. He knows how many people are suffering due to the shutdown, and will continue to suffer the longer it goes on. He wants to help them. But I think he's finally realized that the best way to help them in the long term is to break this obstructionist fever that has put a stranglehold on Washington for the past 3 years by putting Democrats in the best possible position to take over the House in 2014. That's why he's not caving. That and I don't think Harry Reid is going to let him.

[Edited on October 12, 2013 at 6:20 PM. Reason : :]

10/12/2013 6:19:31 PM

The thing is, Obama would be stupid to give in now. No matter what happens, everyone is going to blame the Republicans. The worse things get, the better it is for Democrats.

10/12/2013 9:29:23 PM

You say that like it's not actually the Republicans fault.

10/13/2013 10:14:58 AM

So Republicans have given up on ACA, all negotiations now are about spending. Republicans are bargaining to keep spending at sequester levels... which is what they would have had if they passed the clean CR and not shutdown the government.

Basically this clusterfuck is about as bad as it can get for Republicans right now.


(also, lets stop perpetuating the false narrative that Democrats haven't compromised. Just look at the spending levels, democrats compromised a lot)

[Edited on October 13, 2013 at 11:41 AM. Reason : .]

10/13/2013 11:40:29 AM

10/13/2013 12:30:36 PM

You can't possibly be this stupid.

10/13/2013 12:43:03 PM

10/13/2013 1:27:56 PM

Quote :

"You can't possibly be this stupid."

i guess math is overrated, huh?

10/13/2013 2:43:50 PM

Math isn't overrated--bad analogies are.

10/13/2013 2:55:13 PM

Man I wonder how much of the household budget is for maintaining nukes and B52s?

[Edited on October 13, 2013 at 3:04 PM. Reason : can't forget about the money press in the basement.. and people giving money to keep it safe.]

10/13/2013 3:01:58 PM

i stopped my parent's pay until they defund dental visits and buy me a Nintendo

10/13/2013 3:11:52 PM

Republicans changed the House rules so only the majority speaker can bring something to vote:
http://youtu.be/0Jd-iaYLO1A

10/13/2013 3:31:46 PM

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/political/at-tea-party-like-rally-obama-told-to-put-the-quran-down-in-washington-dc

they seem like a nice, thoughtful bunch

10/13/2013 5:44:22 PM

I went on a road trip the other weekend and while driving down the interstate I saw protesters on three different overpasses, holding "Don't Tread on Me", "Impeach Obama" and "defund Obamacare" signs. Seemed like a boring way to spend a Saturday.

10/13/2013 7:13:14 PM

shouldn't they be at work supporting themselves

10/13/2013 11:59:30 PM

Quote :

""I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group."

nonviolent (wink, wink)

figuratively (wink, wink)

10/14/2013 12:11:06 AM

Quote :

"You say that like it's not actually the Republicans fault."

Can you stop being a complete partisan hack long enough to at least admit that Obama is being a little more stubborn now than he really needs to be? It's not going to kill you; the Democratic Party isn't going to come knock down your door and shoot you for admitting it. I don't understand why you can't own up to this fact. Yes, the tea-tards are morons and picked this fight; and Obama is loving it and taking advantage of it by doing things that he doesn't have to do, just to twist the knife harder. Obama is a fucking politician, and it's not going to kill you to admit to that fact.

10/14/2013 12:18:32 AM

I'll bite: How is Obama being more stubborn than he needs to be?

10/14/2013 12:47:00 AM

I've already answered that in this thread.

10/14/2013 12:52:49 AM

Oh, yeah. I forgot.

Passing a sequester-level continuing resolution and raising the debt limit is giving Obama everything he wants. In fact, Obama is a giant douche nozzle for insisting on those things.

10/14/2013 1:29:12 AM

he also didn't sign the resolution they never sent him, HE DIDN'T EVEN SIGN IT!!

10/14/2013 8:27:47 AM

So this is all fine, pass the CR, raise the debt ceiling, avert crisis, fine.

When do we quit adding to the debt then? When does monthly revenue start outweighing spending?

Are we waiting for a real recovery first? Or will spending be reduced further under Obama before he leaves (military for example)?

Would it be possible to earmark funds to go straight to the debt? New cuts or revenue that can't be spent on anything else?

Since some folks on TWW seem so keen to compare this situation to a household budget then I suppose this would be like a payment plan. A payment plan that the public would be aware of.

Some on this board might find this to be a "useless allocation of money" but it might make certain folks feel better about the state of SS and other unfunded liabilities past 2060 etc.

10/14/2013 9:55:31 AM

the deficit was already going down because of the sequester, which is the spending level we would have had if they passed the clean-CR that is now in jeopardy

10/14/2013 9:57:34 AM

"Going down," but enough?

10/14/2013 9:58:19 AM

this year the deficit is expected to shrink to 4% of our GDP, which would be the lowest since 2004.

we don't have a short-term debt problem, the issue is that long-term projections look bad. so the answer to your question would be that since we don't have a short-term problem, we should raise the debt limit and open the government and try to resolve this without a gun held to our heads.

[Edited on October 14, 2013 at 10:07 AM. Reason : for reference, i think it was almost 10% of GDP not long ago]

10/14/2013 10:03:07 AM

Would it not be politically wise for whatever party is in power to defuse the $17 trillion buzzword hanging over their heads?

Or make steps to...

10/14/2013 10:10:18 AM

yeah, you defuse it by raising the debt ceiling high enough that it gets us through the next election then open the government and work on solutions

10/14/2013 10:16:53 AM

If Republicans were truly all about promoting their version of what a family should be (you know, opposite gender parts and such), then they would pass another one of their Buffet Bills opening the Social Security office so that newly-minted wives (like mine from as of this past Saturday) can change their names.

10/14/2013 10:37:44 AM

Congratulations!

Just let her keep her last name like one of those feminists making a statement against male domination.

Commie.

10/14/2013 10:56:30 AM

Fixing the debt problem won't happen until tax increases on the wealthy and capital gains are seriously discussed and the corporate tax rate is lowered while wiping out all the loopholes. The US already has the lowest tax rates of any industrialized country in the world.

10/14/2013 12:19:22 PM

Quote :

"When do we quit adding to the debt then? When does monthly revenue start outweighing spending?"

That's a good discussion to have when we are making the budget. You have these kinds of discussions when you're looking at the menu instead of when you're paying the bill.

10/14/2013 1:14:54 PM

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-default-update-98260.html

Quote :

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has privately offered Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell a deal that would reopen the government until mid-to-late December while extending the U.S. debt ceiling until next year, according to several sources familiar with the talks. The proposal would set up a framework for larger budget negotiations with the House over the automatic sequestration spending cuts and other major deficit issues, the sources said. Moreover, Senate Democrats are open to delaying Obamacare’s medical device tax and a requirement that those receiving Obamacare subsidies be subject to income verification — but they would have to get something from Republicans in return, sources said."

This is what the final deal that ends this shit is probably going to look like. It remains to be seen what concessions, if any, the GOP are willing to make in exchange for minor changes to Obamacare. Also, a deal passing the Senate doesn't mean it's going to pass the House. It's almost certainly not going to get a majority of Republicans on board. But the pressure on Boehner to bring a bill to the floor will be kicked up to 11 if it passed the Senate with Republican support.

[Edited on October 14, 2013 at 1:37 PM. Reason : :]

10/14/2013 1:36:06 PM

The fact that the solution for this might originate in the Senate is sad. They already passed their legislation and the House won't even let it come to a vote.

I also don't think this new bill would make it through the House. That's just how shitty of a human being Boehner is. We need to run his ass out of the country.

[Edited on October 14, 2013 at 2:22 PM. Reason : ]

10/14/2013 2:22:06 PM

plus now all of the tea party nuts will be screaming that "the budget is supposed to originate in the House, you guys are breaking the Constitution and making freedom cry!!"

10/14/2013 2:28:32 PM

No, the budget is supposed to originate with Obama and then they can tear him down for it with absolutely no political consequences.

10/14/2013 2:41:46 PM

Quote :

"@JohnJHarwood 36m Dem aide: Prospective Reid-McConnell deal would re-open govt with CR to January, raise debt limit to February. No medical-device tax delay."

Quote :

"Robert Costa ?@robertcostaNRO 7m MT @J_Strong Growing sense of resignation among House Rs that whatever McConnell agrees to will be the deal. Doesn't mean it will be pretty"

Quote :

"Robert Costa ?@robertcostaNRO 1m RT @jbendery Top Sen aide confirms outlines of latest deal: Debt lim hike thru early Feb, govt funding thru early Jan, budget conf by Dec 15"

Quote :

"@jbendery 5m Top Senate aide also confirms Dems will "probably" agree to Obamacare income verification reqs. Notes "won't affect enrollment in any way.""

So basically a short term DL raise and CR, with a promise to "talk" by December 15 and a totally meaningless income verification requirement for Obamacare. RIP Boehner.

10/14/2013 4:11:31 PM

that's not long enough, just means we will see this shit show again.

10/14/2013 5:15:11 PM

They want to avoid the next set of sequester cuts early next year. The only way to do that is pass a new budget.

Ted Cruz can still drag this out in the Senate, giving the House minimal time before the deadline. We'll be lucky if the debt ceiling is raised before October 17th.

I wonder how conservative the Treasury has been guessing where the debt ceiling is?

10/14/2013 6:43:16 PM