After all the shit CJL got after his freshman season and part of his sophomore season, it's nice to see the CJL narrative and publicity be more positive. A lot of people called him selfish and immature...it's nice to put that type of stuff to bed.

1/15/2013 5:18:44 PM

you know its a classy move when the small handful of IC posters who aren't too busy making handicapped jokes give Leslie credit

1/15/2013 5:32:13 PM

[Edited on January 15, 2013 at 9:12 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2013 9:12:11 PM

narratives

1/15/2013 9:14:31 PM

Quote :

"REPORT CARD A: C.J. Leslie -- The North Carolina State forward scored 25 points in Saturday's victory against Duke, but his biggest moment that afternoon came not during the game, but shortly after the final horn. As NC State fans rushed the floor, Leslie hurried to the aid of a student named Will Privette who had been pushed onto the court in his wheelchair. Within seconds, Privette's wheelchair had been lost amid a sea of people. Noticing the situation, Leslie rushed toward Privette and lifted him from his chair before it was toppled. "He held me for a couple of minutes," Leslie told USA Today. "I was screaming and yelling." Privette said Leslie "saved his life" by keeping him from getting trampled. That's big-time stuff, folks."

1/16/2013 2:16:31 PM

Quote :

"I do not understand how to read a reddit thread"

I swear I'm the same way. I hate trying to read other forums because I am so use to TWW's format which is much better.

I hate the ones like PP and IC that have those nested quotes. I have no idea who said what in those things when there are like 15 nested quotes

1/16/2013 2:29:38 PM

Sounds like you're stuck in your ways, old man.

1/16/2013 2:34:13 PM

Back in my day we actually talked to people. You crazy kids and your computer wizardry.

1/16/2013 3:02:47 PM

devil box

1/16/2013 4:35:47 PM

Even if he gets a hand on that ball (INSTEAD OF BLOCKING OUT THE 7-FOOTER)...its going to be a fucking goaltend. Great player...like the guy...but dumb as fuck.

1/16/2013 9:10:34 PM

those same defensive instincts have helped us more than they have hurt us

and who says len doesnt get the putback even if he stays at home to box out

1/16/2013 9:13:13 PM

Yeah, really horrible decision there but not unexpected. Coach should pry his eyes open and make him watch that final sequence on loop Clockwork Orange style.

^Lol no they haven't. I love the guy but his tendency to go for the highlight reel block has hurt us way more than it's helped us. His best overall performance this season was against UConn where he dominated the defensive boards.

[Edited on January 16, 2013 at 9:19 PM. Reason : :]

1/16/2013 9:13:20 PM

maybe this is a good thing and he'll stop trying to goaltend every play instead of boxing out and we'll actually end up an elite team as a result

LOL yea nevermind, that's never going to happen

1/16/2013 9:14:08 PM

Quote :

"those same defensive instincts have helped us more than they have hurt us"

false

1/16/2013 9:14:22 PM

actually its true

NEXT

1/16/2013 9:14:51 PM

Quote :

"maybe this is a good thing and he'll stop trying to goaltend every play instead of boxing out and we'll actually end up an elite team as a result"

Unfortunately, we've been saying that since his freshmen year.

1/16/2013 9:15:15 PM

Quote :

"actually its true NEXT "

The offensive goaltends and offensive rebounds/putbacks he allows far outweigh the blocks. Easily.

1/16/2013 9:16:27 PM

half of his goaltends are off the glass on shots that are probably going in anyway, so they dont matter a lot

i just think someone who has the great athleticism and tendencies to try and block anything in his area is generally a good thing, even though on one single play tonight, it was obviously costly

i'd rather have a great shot blocker who gets overly aggressive sometimes than not

[Edited on January 16, 2013 at 9:19 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2013 9:18:40 PM

Doesn't enjoy boxing out

1/16/2013 9:19:51 PM

um, he doesnt actually goaltend or block shots that often though. because again, he has terrible instincts on defense.

the problem is plays like that one where he whiffs on everything and his assignment gets a free put back

[Edited on January 16, 2013 at 9:23 PM. Reason : lay up or put back]

1/16/2013 9:22:42 PM

you can fault CJ for plenty of stuff, but saying he doesnt have good defensive instincts doesnt make much sense

you cant even coach instincts like that, you either have them or you dont, and he has them

[Edited on January 16, 2013 at 9:24 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2013 9:23:41 PM

ITT, crazy athletic = defensive instincts.

Thanks TT...I was struggling with that one.

1/16/2013 9:27:17 PM

Clearly you're in the wrong here but you just keep on talking anyway.

He is a poor defender and his goaltend obsession has turned him into a below average rebounder despite his superior athleticism.

He needs to stop channeling his inner serge ibaka and become a good defender/rebounder instead.

1/16/2013 9:27:20 PM

if he didnt have good defensive instincts he wouldnt get so many blocks / miss so many blocks by inches when his timing was flawless

i'm not advocating what he did on the last possession, because in monday morning quarterback 20/20 hindsight, it probably cost us the game

but anyone who denies he has great defensive instincts is just wrong

unless "defensive instincts" is boxing out every play and never trying for weakside help blocks

1/16/2013 9:29:09 PM

I love the guy, but he's a poor defender. And it's not just him going for blocks. It's his focus. He's fine as an on-the-ball defender thanks mostly to his insane athleticism, but it's off the ball that he's a liability.

1/16/2013 9:36:43 PM

If he blocks it the game is over and he's the hero. Barely misses it and is the goat. Tis life I guess.

1/16/2013 9:38:00 PM

^

1/16/2013 9:38:56 PM

If he blocks it, it is a goaltend and we still lose.

1/16/2013 9:55:06 PM

rewind your DVR if you think it wouldve been a goaltend

cause it wouldnt

1/16/2013 9:56:58 PM

Dude. All blocks are goaltending. Duh. Have you ever watched a bball game ?

1/16/2013 9:57:59 PM

the way the refs were calling that game he couldve put his hand through the basket and it wouldve been called a block

he still has poor defensive instincts

1/16/2013 10:13:20 PM

i'd say he has better defensive instincts than 99% of the players in the country

if he didn't have those instincts, he would box out every single play like any bball player in the nation is capable of

do you want dikembe mutombo and serge ibaka boxing out every possession where they're helpside defense? do we want beejay anya boxing out on every possession next year? no, we dont

1/16/2013 10:23:42 PM

i mean, i thought at first you were trolling me and now im not sure.

if youre trying to say that reacting to a play and doing the correct thing defensively are two different things, you are correct.

the problem is that leslie is not very good at either of them.

he is insanely athletic so sometimes neither of those issues matter. not enough for it to be worth it, though.

jj hickson had better "timing" (maybe a better word to use) and it still wasnt worth it because no one on that team covered for him

1/16/2013 10:32:54 PM

Leslie is an awesome weakside help defender / shot blocker

just cause it didnt work out tonight doesnt mean you should come to the conclusion that he has shitty defensive instincts

the arc of the last shot by maryland was just a few inches too high/good

and i again say, based on a couple plays earlier in the game where Len was boxed out and still got the o-board, who is to say if CJL had stayed at home that Len wouldnt have still tipped it in?

bottom line obviously is we lost the game and will move on, but leslie's defensive effort has helped win us 10 of the last 11 games, i don't think we should try and reinvent the wheel by making him a pedestrian player who boxes out all the time, if thats the case we might as well play vandy 15 minutes a game

[Edited on January 16, 2013 at 10:37 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2013 10:35:53 PM

im not saying he should never try to block shots coming from the weakside. he should do it less than he does now

probably at about the same rate lorenzo brown tries to jump passing lanes for steals. if zogo did that every other possession that would also be a major problem

1/16/2013 10:37:15 PM

in hindsight, the best play wouldve been for leslie to guard the ball handler and go for the shot block on-man with howell staying at home and boxing out len

but it was a fast paced play in the moment, cant win em all

1/16/2013 10:38:42 PM

Leslie has been a terrible defender this season and really for all of his career. I have no idea what you are talking about here Tree. The guy isn't a good defender and that is exceedingly obvious.

I don't think it's accurate to say we have a single "good" defender on this roster. Except maybe #34, haven't seen enough of him but he appears to have some talent.

1/16/2013 10:46:02 PM

i almost thought you were being kenpom-serious until you brought up a walkon

1/16/2013 10:47:58 PM

no im serious, he looks like he might be a defensive presence. rest of the team can not play defense, although howell's rebounding makes him valuable on that end.

1/16/2013 10:54:49 PM

Robinson averages 1.0 minutes per game, so I fail to see how you can make any type of legitimate opinion on if he is a great defender or a terrible defender

1/16/2013 10:56:24 PM

yeah it's too early to tell but we know the 8 guys in our rotation are not good defenders and robinson in limited minutes has made quite the impression.

I'm not saying definitively that he's the best defender on the team, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me or any of the other people who have watched him play thus far.

1/16/2013 11:00:41 PM

i'm not gonna put a lot of stock in a walkon who plays a minute per game against scrub teams during 30 point blowouts getting a rebound or scoring 0.7 points

i love the dude, he reps the 704, but you're clowning yourself if you're being serious about this whole premise

1/16/2013 11:03:04 PM

Scott Wood has the best defensive instincts in the country. He has 1/10 the athleticism of CJL, is shorter and has less length....and only averages .2 blocks a game less than CJL.

Scott Wood is a golden god.



This is one of the dumbest arguments you've held on to Tree.


Oh...and

Quote :

"rewind your DVR if you think it wouldve been a goaltend"

It DEFINITELY would have been a goaltend if he got his hand on the ball. Whether or not the refs would have called it is a different story. But it was clear as day coming down when his hand was underneath it (it was also clearly a foot short).

And this is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted on ST:

Quote :

"if he didnt have good defensive instincts he wouldnt....miss so many blocks by inches when his timing was flawless"

lulz

[Edited on January 17, 2013 at 6:38 AM. Reason : .]

1/17/2013 6:35:32 AM

The ball wasn't even at the peak of its arc let alone coming down, you must not have hddvr / good eyesight

1/17/2013 8:51:41 AM

Howell altered the shot on his own. Leslie had no affect on the balls arc. If Leslie boxed Len out the ball would've fallen to the floor at Leslie's feet before the rim.

That's it, argument over.

1/17/2013 9:08:47 AM

^You can't really say that. It was the last moment of the game. Len is so big and long, he could've gone up over Leslie even if he was boxed out and tipped it in. They're not going to call over-the-back in that situation.

Not saying I wouldn't have prefered him staying home and boxing out; would have definitely lessened the chances of a tip-in. But no one really knows what would've happened.

1/17/2013 9:39:59 AM

A good box out involves moving your man away from the basket...not only impeding progression towards in. They aren't going to call Leslie for a foul on a damn solid box out with 2 seconds left while everyone is watching the player with the ball.

1/17/2013 10:19:09 AM

CJL is incapable of a "solid" box out. You should know that. And even if he was, he's not moving Len anywhere.

[Edited on January 17, 2013 at 11:13 AM. Reason : ]

1/17/2013 11:12:08 AM

Len bricked like two dunks in that game when he was wide open. He's not tipping that ball in if Leslie puts a body on him. Case closed, end of story. Leslie made the wrong decision.

1/17/2013 11:49:42 AM

Yeah, that possession went pretty much exactly the way we would have wanted it to go. We played good D off of the inbounds and forced them into an awful shot. I know that Bilas was on the air crying that we should have fouled them, but I really disagree. When you have a lead with 4 secs left and force your man into a contested fade away jumper, then you want that scenario most of the time. The problem was CJ leaving his man.

1/17/2013 12:32:27 PM