God damnit I got earled

11/12/2019 6:15:51 PM

Quote :

"I think she's doing a great thing that no one else is doing. Pointing out Warren's flaws amongst an environment where everyone is saying "if you like bernie, just vote for Warren". The debate formats were proactively rigged to hide contrast, so there is a lot of this work to be done."

She is far from the only one pointing out Warren's flaws. And the debates have not provided contrast because Sanders and Warren have made conscious decisions NOT to attack each other. If the debates prevented contrast, then what the hell was Harris' stab at Biden and Tulsi's subsequent stab at Harris? There is as much contrast as the candidates choose to make of it. However, the questions have been absolutely pointed in favor of Biden and Klobuchar, and just as much against Warren as they have been for Sanders. She is his natural ally, and it's gross that so many of his supporters want to attack her when he himself does not.

11/12/2019 7:45:24 PM

His campaign has made an effort to differentiate Sanders from Warren and they've had campaign connected people attacking some of the issues with Warren's platform for at least a few weeks now, it's why they've moved apart in polling momentum

11/12/2019 9:49:16 PM

^But that hasn't happened during a debate, at least not yet. We'll see what happens next week.

11/13/2019 12:47:00 PM

I don't want contrast in the form of them attacking each other. I want contrast in the form of long responses to questions, nuanced policy differences, sufficient and fair opportunity for rebuttal and time to venture outside the realm of the network's prescribed narrative. You know, a real, professional debate like they have in high schools. Many people only know what they see on TV and if they watch CNN, it isn't much.

These should be 4 person debates by now with a JV debate with everyone else. They don't want to give Biden and Bernie too many big blocks of time to talk so they have 10 person debates all the way . up to the primaries. Its also unprecedented. I don't think there had ever been 10 on a debate stage ever before this cycle. There certainly hadn't been increasing numbers of candidates in the debates as the primaries got closer. They are still recruiting more centrists to run to further drown out the voice of the people. They didn't "get rid" of superdelegates. They just moved them to the end of the process where they will pick the nominee.

Instead we get elementary school level crap like, "in 3 words, what would you do as president? nope that was 4 words moving on to healthcare americans are worried about tax increases would you promise not to raise taxes on the middle class already struggling with healthcare costs? and what will you say to donald trump blah blah"

[Edited on November 13, 2019 at 1:36 PM. Reason : krystal ball ]

11/13/2019 1:35:27 PM

who here do you think is fighting for these kinds of debates?

11/13/2019 1:41:47 PM

No one has to fight for a system already in place but you are all enabling/fighting for the DNC by pledging to vote for it no matter how flawed or rigged their process turns out to be. They have no accountability because you people have never actually held them accountable. As long as they don't change the first letter, they have your vote for life.

11/13/2019 7:42:00 PM

With that rationale, you could say a vote for green party is a vote for Trump. Wtf

[Edited on November 13, 2019 at 8:08 PM. Reason : Is there not an app for this site?]

11/13/2019 7:58:27 PM

Quote :

" They don't want to give Biden and Bernie too many big blocks of time to talk"

I'm not sure who "they" are, but that doesn't seem to be working.

The candidates who get the most speaking time are the ones who are mentioned the most by the other candidates. If the 2nd-tier folks were wise, they would call on each other and completely ignore the top, give each other more speaking time. Instead, they always go after the front runners, which always backfires (maybe hurts the front runners but doesn't help themselves) and just sends more airtime up the ladder.

Biden had the most speaking time in each of the first three debates when he was the clear leader, then Warren in October when she was perceived to be taking control. Sanders was leaped by Klobuchar and Beto, but that mostly had to do with his health...no one wanted to attack him, and he himself didn't have the strength to push as hard as he normally does.

11/14/2019 11:04:44 AM

Deval Patrick officially entered the race, and lol I just realized he came from Bain Capital

I'm laughing my ass of at the current state of democrats right now, it wasn't long ago when attacking Romney over Bain Capital was a key part of Obama's campaign and now centrist democratic power brokers (including Obama if the reporting was true) have encouraged Deval Patrick to enter the race in mid November

fucking lol, democrats are so shit

also, if he gets even a tiny amount of traction or coverage this will seriously undermine biden's role as obama's successor which means that biden has already been written off by the power brokers involved in patrick entering the race

[Edited on November 14, 2019 at 11:07 AM. Reason : .]

11/14/2019 11:06:58 AM

^

Quote :

"Patrick also defended both his work at Bain and private equity in general, adding that he did not himself echo the 2012 Obama campaign’s attacks on Romney."

Quote :

"A candidate finally says what they'd do differently from Obama: Lose the 2012 election."

https://twitter.com/pareene/status/1195025501666136064?s=19

11/14/2019 12:34:06 PM

Quote :

"Former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julián Castro won't qualify for the next Democratic presidential primary debate"

11/15/2019 9:55:29 AM

big oof

PETE BUTTIGIEG TOUTED 3 MAJOR SUPPORTERS OF HIS DOUGLASS PLAN FOR BLACK AMERICA. THEY WERE ALARMED WHEN THEY SAW IT.
https://theintercept.com/2019/11/15/pete-buttigieg-campaign-black-voters/

11/15/2019 10:39:03 AM

bigger oof

Quote :

" On top of everything else, the Buttigieg campaign used a stock photo from Kenya to promote its Frederick Douglass Plan for Black America https://t.co/OqnGSIqCLS"

http://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1195375842358108168

11/15/2019 11:30:48 AM

lmao amazing

11/15/2019 11:35:21 AM

Warren released her Medicare for All Who Want It plan today

11/15/2019 4:44:37 PM

Yea everyone else will just go uninsured when private insurance is eliminated in year 3.

Bernie also presents a Medicare for all who wants it plan

Quote :

"Those who qualify for the new universal Medicare plan would get four years to transition into the new coverage. In the interim, they would have the option to buy into Medicare or another publicly run option that does not currently exist."

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/10/18304448/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all

11/15/2019 4:58:41 PM

Not bad for a former republican though.

11/15/2019 4:59:52 PM

^^
No, sorry. M4A (Bernie's plan) has a built in transition to full single payer. It doesn't rely on a separate piece of legislation after "proving" Medicare is better than private insurance.

Like honestly, why would you leave it open for Republicans (or Blue Dogs) to pull the rug out from underneath? Not like that's ever happened before, right?

[Edited on November 15, 2019 at 5:48 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2019 5:47:25 PM

So it's Medicare for all it just gets there a different way then you want

11/15/2019 8:26:23 PM

Medicare for All is a specific bill that exists and it is a full and complete transition to single payer. Don't you find it odd that she has been endorsing this bill for months (or years, idk), but now is proposing a public option and then separate legislation 3+ years later?

The public option has been for years a way to undermine true single payer M4A. It's a side road, not a path. This is the same ploy by Harris and Buttiegig, Warren is just more skilled at tricking progressives.

https://www.carlbeijer.com/2019/11/warrens-plan-would-destroy.html

Quote :

"It is perfectly obvious to anyone who thinks about this for five seconds how it would actually play out. During the first "legislative push," Republicans would argue that Warren's first bill is a radical communist government power-grab doomed to dysfunction and failure - and single payer activists would be backed into either abandoning the project or insisting that yes, the public-private plan is actually quite reasonable and good. This would 1. Split the movement along entirely predictable lines that are completely familiar to left organizers - "let's work with Democrats" versus "we must hold the line"; 2. Undermine the commitment and investment of activists who have reluctantly decided to support a bill that is at odds with what they think really needs to happen with health care in the US; 3. Center Warren's first plan as the "reasonable" compromise, and the second plan as an unnecessarily radical instance of Democrats pressing their advantage; and 4. Exhaust everyone before picking the second fight."

[Edited on November 15, 2019 at 8:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2019 8:37:54 PM

It may not be a plan Medicare For All, but it's def medicare for all

But I guess we just have to agree to disagree like with bernies stubbornness about filibuster

11/15/2019 9:08:36 PM

Quote :

"It may not be a plan Medicare For All, but it's def medicare for all"

It's not. She won't follow through. Idk how anyone is falling for this.

Quote :

"But I guess we just have to agree to disagree like with bernies stubbornness about filibuster"

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/elizabeth-warren-medicare-for-all-transition-plan/index.html

Quote :

"During the first phase, Warren would use the Senate budget reconciliation process to pass legislation that would immediately offer Medicare for All's full suite of benefits"

11/15/2019 9:19:14 PM

Yea i mean there is no way to argue with your personal opinion on her follow through, but if that's your position you should have just led with that, saved us both some time

11/15/2019 9:28:11 PM

Yeah that's my opinion, but I also gave you reasoning to oppose it even if you think she will.

11/15/2019 9:50:08 PM

Cool. So she released a medicare for all plan but you don't like her or the plan. That's clearer then your first post on the subject.

11/15/2019 9:56:37 PM

It's gonna get increasingly sad to watch Bernie -> Warren converts defend her pivot to the right.

11/15/2019 10:04:39 PM

Weird non sequitur

11/15/2019 10:06:50 PM

You’re worried about Warren’s follow-through in the 2nd half of her term, but what you should really be concerned about is if Bernie is gonna SURVIVE to the 2nd half of his term. Have you checked the actuarial tables for a 78 year old man that just had a massive cardiac event? It’s a roll of the dice at best.

11/17/2019 7:28:58 AM

ol Pete in 1st place (iowa).

11/17/2019 9:25:44 AM

Can someone explain to me why this poll is excluded from RCP or why MSM didn't mention it?

a reason other than the notion that it shows the Bernie surge...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-bloomberg/reuters-ipsos-poll-3-support-bloomberg-for-democratic-nomination-idUSKBN1XP1A3
Even this headline is all about bloomberg.

11/17/2019 12:36:10 PM

Deep State in bed with corporations, probably.

11/17/2019 1:49:35 PM

Quote :

"You’re worried about Warren’s follow-through in the 2nd half of her term, but what you should really be concerned about is if Bernie is gonna SURVIVE to the 2nd half of his term. Have you checked the actuarial tables for a 78 year old man that just had a massive cardiac event? It’s a roll of the dice at best."

That doesn't concern me because he'll appoint an excellent cabinet and VP. Versus who Warren who has named Deval Patrick of Bain Capital as an option for her cabinet

11/17/2019 4:45:26 PM

Biden against marijuana legalization... the youth will hate this, not sure how the boomer generation feels about this though

11/17/2019 11:36:47 PM

Quote :

" Can someone explain to me why this poll is excluded from RCP or why MSM didn't mention it? "

RCP doesn’t appear to show any state level Reuter’s/Ipsos polls. They do show approval ratings from them though. I actively looked on RCP to see if they had a polling exclusion methodology and couldn’t find it anywhere, which is disconcerting considering the recent disclosure that they are funded by the far right.

However, 538 is completely transparent and did list this (and all) state level poll. They are online only and rated a B-. Sadly, this appears to be an outlier and Iowa seems to be trending toward Mayor Pete

This goes back to my whole “Iowa sucks, it isn’t representative nor the country or the Democrats breakdown and should not get the outsized coverage it does.”

11/18/2019 10:52:02 AM

Quote :

"Sadly, this appears to be an outlier and Iowa seems to be trending toward Mayor Pete "

lol what a lamb

Quote :

"About this poll The Iowa Poll, conducted Nov. 8-13, 2019, for The Des Moines Register, CNN and Mediacom by Selzer & Co. of Des Moines, is based on telephone interviews with 500 registered voters in Iowa who say they will definitely or probably attend the 2020 Democratic caucuses and 502 registered Republicans who are not planning to participate in the Democratic caucuses."

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2019/11/17/why-pete-buttigieg-leads-november-register-cnn-iowa-poll/4197491002/

[Edited on November 18, 2019 at 11:12 AM. Reason : what they did to nym is what they are doing to a lot of people]

11/18/2019 11:11:27 AM

Ok.

It’s probably a good idea to look at one poll that you like and not the balance of them.

You got me.

11/18/2019 11:19:12 AM

But the choice questions say "among likely Dem caucus goers"

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/11/16/rel4a_ia.pdf

^nah you're good

[Edited on November 18, 2019 at 11:22 AM. Reason : E]

11/18/2019 11:20:36 AM

I mean, Seltzer is one of most respected pollsters in the country.

This isn’t even worth engaging on.

11/18/2019 11:23:24 AM

It's worth engaging if only bc it's so easy to slap away the pt he is trying to make. The quote he posted is real but the numbers don't use the republican caucus peeps, only the Dems.

Also 70% essentially say they are still open.

[Edited on November 18, 2019 at 11:26 AM. Reason : E]

11/18/2019 11:25:34 AM

The idea that one poll is an outlier while another poll shows "iowa is trending to mayor pete" is a contradiction.

^still 500 and by telephone

11/18/2019 1:25:43 PM

Earl from the Internet >>>> Ann Seltzer

11/18/2019 1:28:02 PM

What you really mean is

Ann Selzer>>>>>>>>>>>>YOUGOV

I'd be interested in hearing why. I'm sure its a better reason than the fact that MSM rammed Selzer results down your throat while ignoring YOUGOV.

11/18/2019 1:42:07 PM

https://gen.medium.com/the-haters-guide-to-mayor-pete-d383ebd94bb5

11/18/2019 1:52:31 PM

538 put their methodology and new ratings out a week or so ago. Read it. It’s sourced and thorough.

And yes, I still believe in expertise. I am not a statistician (though I do play one part time) and I’m not a poller. So I tend to defer to well thought out and well sourced expertise.

It’s why I was openly critical (and surprised) to see RCP didn’t have this.

For the lazy and/or interested:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-state-of-the-polls-2019/

11/18/2019 1:55:14 PM

pete's husband posted a thirsty pic of pete from a holocaust memorial

11/18/2019 2:18:15 PM

Steyer now has 4 polls to qualify for the December debate. Doesn't have the 200k unique donors also required to qualify yet but claims he's on track to get them.

Yang also picked up another December qualifying poll, needs 1 more.

Tulsi still needs 2 more, or just 1 more if it's a 6%+ in an early state poll

[Edited on November 18, 2019 at 3:14 PM. Reason : wondering what the themes of this Wednesday's debate will be]

11/18/2019 3:13:45 PM

^^^

Quote :

" He’s a genial white guy. He’s a former troop. He’s from the Midwest, which has long fashioned itself as the official headquarters of REAL AMERICA. He can break out into spontaneous fits of Finnish and Arabic. He’s not as old and confused as Joe Biden and he’s not as SCARY nor as RADICAL as Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders."

Is this a bad thing?

11/18/2019 9:56:22 PM

Link posts are not endorsements.

11/18/2019 10:34:31 PM

^^ is that really what you took away from that link?

[Edited on November 19, 2019 at 7:07 AM. Reason : .]

11/19/2019 7:05:21 AM