I'll never understand why a guy who clearly can't coach defense wouldn't hire an assistant to install a defensive system to get his team to at least average at it. Is there any reason we can't double the salary of some grad assistant at Syracuse when Lutz takes a HC job?

2/25/2012 5:08:46 PM

Someone had to get the 'no help from the refs' complain in!

2/25/2012 5:10:03 PM

is it 2013 yet?

2/25/2012 5:11:11 PM

Quote :

"And bad motivator because we played like we had nothing to gain by winning this game"

i hate it when we do this so much.

2/25/2012 5:22:10 PM

took two and a half seasons for Sidney Lowe's credibility thread to make 50 pages. good work, mark!

2/25/2012 5:31:09 PM

Yeah but I think most of the thread with the exception of the last five pages have been positive

2/25/2012 5:47:21 PM

I put most of this loss on the players for missing open shots and free throws. I thought our coaching was fine today. However, I have not been impressed with Gottfried's end of game plays, don't know if it is him or Brown's lack of execution.

2/25/2012 10:03:48 PM

Herb would have this team going in the right direction

2/25/2012 10:08:19 PM

I am generally pleasantly surprised by Gottfriend's first year, but something really does need to be done about the defense.

2/25/2012 11:11:16 PM

2/25/2012 11:19:22 PM

Team hasn't been any good all season. Just delusions of grandeur from the posters here. Everyone got upset when I pointed out we probably weren't making the tourney and that the season had gotten away from us weeks ago

2/26/2012 6:17:27 AM

The silver lining in losing to Clemson is that we will most likely finish 7th in the ACC now at 8-8.

That sets us up for a winnable game against Wake Forest and then a second round pairing with duke if they finish second!!

That's the team we wanted to face all along. So were out of the ncaa but at least we can still win one big game this season

2/26/2012 7:00:07 AM

Yes but if UNC finishes 2nd..which is also likely...TROUNCED

Actually - Duke would roll also so makes no difference

2/26/2012 9:44:11 AM

Yeah losing to unc three times is worst case scenario. That would make this season an emphatic disaster

2/26/2012 10:26:33 AM

There is nothing that would make this season a disaster. That's because this season has already surpassed any of the previous 5 under Lowe, so we're making progress. The only thing that would have made this year a disaster would be if we had either done no better or done even worse. We're clearly a different team and with the talent we have coming in I think we can take another big step in the right direction.

I know people are sick and tired of the WTNY mentality, but I feel like anyone that honestly expected Gottfried to step in and have us winning the ACC in the first year he was here is seriously delusional.

2/26/2012 1:21:12 PM

^this times 1000

2/26/2012 1:26:07 PM

If FSU and Duke win out and UNC only loses to Duke, then the ACC will finish #1 Duke, #2 FSU, #3 UNC.

2/26/2012 1:26:26 PM

best case scenario, we win out, take 5th and play bc/gt then uva and unc/duke. we'd have to win the next 5 games to get in the conversation again.


worst case we lose out, play maryland in the first round and duke/unc in the second

realistically I'm more worried about the VT game than the miami game. vt is probably the best 4-10 team in the history of the acc. eight of their acc losses have been by less than five points and this team hasnt shown the ability to win those close games on the road consistently. I'm thinking 1-1 and pulling vt/wf in the first round with fsu in the second. unless we lose out we're a lock for the nit, thats a promise.

[Edited on February 26, 2012 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2012 1:42:15 PM

Quote :

"I know people are sick and tired of the WTNY mentality, but I feel like anyone that honestly expected Gottfried to step in and have us winning the ACC in the first year he was here is seriously delusional."

Who the fuck thought we were going to win the ACC??

With our talent and experience, I think 4th was extremely reasonable.

After watching us play the 1st half of the season, I think 4th was still extremely reasonable and the NCAA tournament a definite possibility.

It is now highly unlikely we finish 4th and we'll probably not make the tournament either. Therefore I'm disappointed. The season is not a disaster, but any season not making the NCAA tournament is a disappointment. This is a talented team. Ultimately our depth has been our downfall...but despite that, we were still in position to control our destiny, and we fucked up.

I'm not down on the coach or the team for next year...but they've still got some questions to answer (can they play defense, can the coaching improve the players, can they gel with the talent coming in...can they design a last minute fucking play).

We've still got a ways to go.

2/26/2012 1:47:22 PM

Quote :

"Who the fuck thought we were going to win the ACC??"

nobody, face likes to project this image upon other people in order to make himself feel better

Quote :

"We've still got a ways to go."

exactly, most everyone here is disappointed, but this absolute shitting on the team and the coach is unbearable. sometimes I hate you people with every ounce of my soul

[Edited on February 26, 2012 at 1:52 PM. Reason : ^not you particularly, just saying]

2/26/2012 1:49:40 PM

Granted the big dance sounded really awesome, I will definitely take a high NIT seed compared to what sidney lowe had us doing the last few years!

2/26/2012 1:49:59 PM

Guys, lets forget about Sidney Lowe, and compare Gottfried with Sendek instead. Lets not have Lowe as the benchmark.

2/26/2012 2:00:54 PM

Just like last year, close wins over shit teams and questionable losses should have signaled that we aren't as good as we thought we were.

All wins aren't equal. It matters how you win and how you play. Barely beating Princeton, NCCU, Bonnies, Campbell, and Elon should always be warning signs that you aren't that good.

I'm sure these lessons will be forgotten next year, too, and people will be blowing the team and the staff for what a wonderful job they have done.

2/26/2012 3:03:12 PM

Quote :

"Barely beating Princeton, NCCU, Bonnies, Campbell, and Elon should always be warning signs that you aren't that good."

or that sometimes you play down to your competition...hell, we barely beat Princeton, FSU LOST to Princeton, is that a warning sign that FSU isn't that good? Do teams that aren't that good get 20 point leads on Duke in Cameron? Why am I arguing with you?

2/26/2012 3:07:32 PM

Just because I don't e-rage on the team doesn't mean I'm fucking blowing them. You don't always have to communicate in extremes, there is a middle ground. Are we better than last years team? In some areas yes, in some no. But there's definitely an improvement overall and if you don't see it then maybe you should just go watch golf or something.

2/26/2012 3:08:04 PM

^truth

2/26/2012 4:02:11 PM

Quote :

"Everyone got upset when I pointed out we probably weren't making the tourney "

Again I reiterate for what feels like the millionth time. Only complete dumbfucks thought this was an NCAA tournament year before this season began. This team has surpassed most of the rational folks preseason expectations.

2/26/2012 4:13:14 PM

^this! the hate squad wants to paint every other poster on this board as some kind of fairy tale sunshine squad just because we dont furiously type on a message board how much this team and coach suck 20 times a day. and then when we inevitably shit the bed they try to pat themselves on the back for being right. its absurd.

fuck you guys, srsly, you're everything thats wrong with sports talk

[Edited on February 26, 2012 at 4:25 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2012 4:24:13 PM

Quote :

"Only complete dumbfucks thought this was an NCAA tournament year before this season began."

That was before people realized just how down a year it was in the ACC. I don't think people were being unrealistic, with our ACC schedule, when they thought at the New Year we had a very good chance to make the NCAA tournament given our performances to that point.

8-8 in this years ACC would be very disappointing to me. I don't think it's unfair to say that one bit...

2/26/2012 4:39:45 PM

It's absolutely not unfair, most everyone thought we had a decent shot at making the tournament two weeks ago, but if you had been told in september that we would have an 8-8 record in the ACC would you have taken it?

2/26/2012 4:42:04 PM

Quote :

"That was before people realized just how down a year it was in the ACC. "

Yes but the same down year will also likely equate to only 4 ACC teams being in the tourney. A bubble team is a bubble team no matter how good or bad this conference is. We went from not even being eligible for the NIT to being a team that just missed the bubble (and this is with an undeniable reduction in talent). Am I disappointed with yesterdays loss? FUCK YES. But overall this season actually exceeded my expectations significantly.

2/26/2012 4:57:52 PM

^^ Gott's stated goal was 11 wins in ACC regular season play - so answer should be an emphatic no

2/26/2012 5:04:50 PM

^ quit fucking stalking me and go the fuck back to insidecarolina everyone hates you here.

2/26/2012 5:07:45 PM

^ lol?

2/26/2012 5:17:14 PM

I didnt say a damn thing about gottfried's expectations. I was talking about the realistic expectations of a fan

2/26/2012 5:26:28 PM

Gotts goal was 11 wins his expectations were not stated. daropack is just a carolina troll on here trying to stir shit up. Unfortunately our mods are pretty much retarded and allow trolling at will.

2/26/2012 5:29:09 PM

And a fan's expectations shouldn't be closely aligned with their coach's?

Makes sense.

2/26/2012 5:29:53 PM

Exactly, a coach's goal should exceed fan expectations. Not sure how that isn't obvious. Did you go to UNC? That may be where your logic fail is coming from.

[Edited on February 26, 2012 at 5:32 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2012 5:31:24 PM

^If you really believe that, then that explains a lot...

2/26/2012 5:32:49 PM

2/26/2012 5:34:10 PM

To say we are moving in the right direction is a HUGE stretch. We are moving in the same direction. Recruiting well but playing poorly.

We couldnr beat anyone all season so to act like our results weren't similar under Lowe when we had significantly less talent is just dishonest.

What will the excuse be next season?

2/26/2012 6:15:23 PM

It's arguable but definitely not a stretch. And I definitely dont buy that this team has more talent this year than last year without using some sort of addition by subtraction shit. IMO eye test alone shows improvement. Leslie and williams have improved tremendously and while Brown isn't consistently good at PG I feel he's improved from last year while playing his first full year at the most important position.

Just looking at straight numbers comparing last years team to this one, we've improved points per game, assists, steals, fg%, ft% and 3P% and we're turning the ball over less

rebounds and blocks are the same

[Edited on February 26, 2012 at 6:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2012 6:20:13 PM

eye test indeed

it's regrettable and disappointing that we couldn't capitalize on our opportunities, but we are definitely headed in the right direction

2/26/2012 6:25:24 PM

^^^I know I am responding to a troll, but that's ridiculous. We have arguably worse talent than last year, a schedule that is far tougher than last year, and a better record and ACC finish than last year... even if we lose out.

The numbers alone show we are moving in the right direction, but watching the games shows the biggest difference. We are probably about the same on D--pretty bad, but our offense is where the real difference is. We don't look lost as hell every time we run a half court set. Plus, our team can actually win on the road now.

I don't see how you can look at any facet of our team and not see improvement.


[Edited on February 26, 2012 at 6:29 PM. Reason : ^^I almost wrote the eye test when typing out my post. Yes.]

2/26/2012 6:27:40 PM

we won 5 acc games last year...winning 7 or 8 this year is clearly not going in the right direction

2/26/2012 6:30:16 PM

Again, it's a much weaker ACC though so pure wins isn't going to tell you all that much in comparison.

I actually looked up our Ken Pom ratings just for shits, and this year we have been far more efficient on both sides of the ball, so that is certainly tangible evidence of improvement.

2/26/2012 6:31:33 PM

its a weaker ACC, i don't know if i'd say much weaker...its not like the conference was great last season

2/26/2012 6:32:32 PM

The bottom is. Last year Wake was on level alone and now there are three teams just as bad and we got to play each of them twice. Schedule was certainly very favorable.

2/26/2012 6:33:21 PM

schedule was definitely favorable (with the exception of the Gauntlet of Rape)

2/26/2012 6:34:57 PM

Duke and Carolina might be weaker this year... although that's arguable in Carolina's case, but top to bottom, the ACC was pretty weak last year too. Who was good last year that downgraded this year? VT? Clemson? UVA and Miami were bad last year and they both made a step up. FSU has definitely made a huge step up from last year.

Admittedly, schedule did help us this year, but I don't know that it gave us 3 extra wins.

[Edited on February 26, 2012 at 6:36 PM. Reason : d]

2/26/2012 6:35:02 PM