I think he means his professional stock not nba, like Trevor Lacey. With some Will Richardson thrown in

2/15/2018 2:07:47 PM

Quote :

"They served beer wine and cocktails which I thought wasn't allowed in the acc "

Pretty sure Wake Forest sells alcohol stadium-wide. Maybe since they're private they can get away with it.

As for Markell, I don't think he's going anywhere. I love the guy, but he doesn't have enough of an outside shot or mid-range game to really draw much NBA attention. If he comes back next year and shoots well, and maybe adds a floater, I think he'd draw some interest. But not this year. (Cat was a much better offensive player, and he didn't get picked.)

Of course, players leave ill-advised all the time, so who really knows.

2/15/2018 2:28:04 PM

Quote :

"I love the guy, but he doesn't have enough of an outside shot "

He's 42% from 3

Quote :

"(Cat was a much better offensive player, and he didn't get picked.)"

Have you seen the number of assists Markell is putting up? He's killing. Markell is 10x the PG Cat was.

[Edited on February 15, 2018 at 3:42 PM. Reason : ]

2/15/2018 3:41:17 PM

https://packinsider.com/2018/02/15/nc-state-enjoys-ice-cream-syracuse/

2/15/2018 4:26:53 PM

Quote :

"Markell is 10x the PG Cat was."

I get that Markell had a great game last night, but let's put down the liquor, it's only 5pm

2/15/2018 5:08:26 PM

I think it's fair to say that Markell is a better, or at least more willing, distributor than Cat ever was. That was what likely kept Cat out of the NBA.

2/15/2018 5:14:31 PM

big, if true.

2/15/2018 5:16:27 PM

^^I agree, but that doesn't make him 1000% better

I mean, he led the ACC in scoring one year. It's not like he was Javi Gonzalez.

[Edited on February 15, 2018 at 5:18 PM. Reason : .]

2/15/2018 5:17:04 PM

cat was definitely a score-first PG. it's really not a good comparison at all. apples to oranges. but yes...markell is a better distributor than cat.

2/15/2018 5:19:03 PM

I mean that Jrb post isn't the best, I was going to avoid responding to it, but if I suspect he is using the restricted definition of "PG" as "pass first PG" but I don't know.

2/15/2018 5:45:10 PM

It's about whose a better offensive player - there's so many ways to cut that, but overall Markell just does more. Now that Keatts has challenged him in the pass 5 games to be a scoring threat as well - we're seeing that too.

Quote :

"^^I agree, but that doesn't make him 1000% better"

Fair point - 9x better

[Edited on February 15, 2018 at 6:10 PM. Reason : ]

2/15/2018 6:09:58 PM

Oh I gave you too much credit then, sorry

2/15/2018 6:25:40 PM

Joel Berry was a Final 4 MVP last year and wasn't in many draft projections. Granted, he is more a score-first pg, but his makeup is comparable to Markell.

2017 JBII: 14.7 ppg, 3.1rpg, 3.6apg, illegal benefits $XX,XXX
2018 MJ: 9.1, 3.4, 7.7, $XX

2/15/2018 6:34:12 PM

Can JB even dunk? He is not very athletic nor is he long. He's more a product of an exceptional college system similar to his colleague Maye.

[Edited on February 15, 2018 at 7:08 PM. Reason : great college players don't always make great pro prospects]

[Edited on February 15, 2018 at 7:08 PM. Reason : dunno]

2/15/2018 7:05:56 PM

In all fairness, Cat was the best and most reliable scoring threat we had his last season, so more often we'd want him keeping the ball than not.

This year's team scores in so many different ways and never relies on one player to do the heavy lifting. That's going to lead to more assists across the board.

2/15/2018 7:52:23 PM

Yeah I do wonder how Cat would’ve done with a more balanced scoring team. Even his sophomore year it was just him and Lacey doing most of the scoring.

2/15/2018 8:21:15 PM

He would have still been a ball dominant PG. It's why TJ Warren wanted to play with Lewis instead of him.

2/15/2018 10:10:47 PM

Projection wise, I think of Markell as somewhat similar to Darren Collison.

2/16/2018 4:16:39 AM

^^yeah - i know he was never gonna be a pass first guy. just thinking if his role wasn't being the one and only scorer...like, if he had a couple more scoring threats and he isn't asked to be the 25 ppg guy. but it doesn't matter...it's all a moot point and it's the thing fans always do where they say "why couldn't X have redshirted so X and Y played together" or "if only we had this coach back when we had that particular roster - imagine what he could've done!"

2/16/2018 7:16:57 AM

Joel Berry - 22yrs old, 6''0", 195lbs. Score-first PG with limited size, streaky 3pt shooter, struggling to carry his team when they aren't the most talented team in the country(last 2 finals he was on a stacked team).

Markell Johnson - 19yrs old, 6'1", 174lbs. Pass-first PG with limited size, streaky 3pt shooter, helping steer our patchwork team to a tournament birth.

Neither makes for a great NBA prospect, but I'd say at this point Markell is higher just because of his age and we still haven't really seen his ceiling. If Markell can come back, put on some good weight, improve on finishing at the rim, and improve on his 3pt shooting, no reason he can't turn into a decent NBA prospect.

Berry is the classic UNC guy that is a great college player but has limited pro prospects and stayed in school too long.

2/16/2018 8:40:39 AM

Back to the Cat vs Markell thing, just for a sec.

Quote :

"It's about whose a better offensive player - there's so many ways to cut that, but overall Markell just does more. "

Cat averaged 23.5 PPG and 4.5 assists in Jr year. Markell is average 9.5 ppg and 7.7 assists.

Does that really make Markell >> than Cat, as you say? And does he really "do more" ? Just a quick look at their skills.

PASSING: Markell is obviously a better passer and better at getting teammates involved. (Though, as has been said, Cat was forced to carry the offensive load his final two years.)

HANDLES: Both have good handles and penetrated well, but Cat was quicker with the ball. Nothing against Markell -- he's plenty fast -- but Cat was the quickest PG in the nation according to pre-draft reports.

FINISHING: Markell is a better dunker, but Cat was arguably a better finisher. He definitely had better touch around the rim and was more adept at drawing fouls.

SHOOTING: Cat was more of a threat from deep, at least by his Jr year. (Yes Markell is shooting a decent percentage. But he's made 21 3's in 19 games.) Cat was also a much MUCH better FT shooter. (I think he was near 90% his final year). He also had a mid-range shot.

Again, both are very important players but very different players, playing on very different teams. Both have limited size, which hurts their NBA chances. Cat is a better scorer, but Markell is better at making teammates better. I think that's all that needs to be said really

2/16/2018 10:21:13 AM

i wouldn't really say Markell is a streaky 3 PT shooter...he just doesn't shoot a lot of 3s. his % is very good (42.9%), and he's pretty consistent, he hasn't had any game where he's been 0 for >2 (three 0-2 games, no 0-3+ games). and in games where he makes a 3, he's never been worse than 1-3. he's generally pretty smart about his shot selection so you won't see him jacking up bad shots. he's made a 3 in all but 5 games and 1 of those games he didn't even attempt a 3.

2/16/2018 12:11:16 PM

Quote :

"Cat was more of a threat from deep, at least by his Jr year"

Nope. Nope nope nope.


Pretty much every metric says that sophomore Johnson > sophomore Barber and it's really not even close.

2/16/2018 2:14:12 PM

Barber didn’t really come into his own until middle way to late in that sophomore year iirc.

2/16/2018 2:42:51 PM

Quote :

"at least by his Jr year"

Quote :

"sophomore Barber "

Quote :

"at least by his Jr year"

Quote :

"at least by his Jr year"

Quote :

"at least by his Jr year"

2/16/2018 3:08:37 PM

Fine, sophomore Markell is a better 3 point shooter than junior Barber. And it's not much of a contest.

[Edited on February 16, 2018 at 3:34 PM. Reason : But I was comparing their sophomore seasons. It seems much more fair to compare sophomore seasons.]

2/16/2018 3:33:32 PM

Cat attempted more 3's in his junior year than Markell has in his collegiate career. Might want to allow for a little more sample size there before you start talking about how much better he is than DSJ.

[Edited on February 16, 2018 at 3:36 PM. Reason : Markell > David Thompson]

2/16/2018 3:36:24 PM

Markell being smarter and having good shot selection is key. To be fair, I wonder what Cat could have done with a coach.

2/16/2018 4:03:32 PM