http://photo.pds.org:5012/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1999071602&action=print

Quote :

"Or a child may tell a therapist he is attracted to someone of the same sex. The counselor might tell the kid it's OK to feel that way. “We don't think a school counselor has any business giving that sort of approval to a child,” says Lightfoot."

For a lot of kids, especially in the rural south, especially those who are bullied, a school counselor might be the only adult you can turn to. Good riddance to this terrible appointment.

2/7/2013 1:28:57 PM

There is an other GOP and McCrory credibility thread, no need to use this one for an unrelated topic

2/7/2013 2:20:00 PM

That was about an education director level appointment. I figured this administrations education policy was fair game in this thread, but we can have different threads for every level of education if you prefer.

2/7/2013 2:38:28 PM

This is not about all education

2/7/2013 2:45:54 PM

Then you're really going to hate me posting this.

"Senate passes bill to encourage vocational education"
http://www.wral.com/senate-passes-bill-to-encourage-vocational-education-/12077927/

Quote :

" Among the bill's major features, high school students would earn diplomas marking them as ready for a career, college or both.""

Quote :

"some senators did challenge Tillman on whether or not parents would be involved in the choice a child makes in 10th grade as to whether to follow a vocational education path or a more academically oriented course of study. "In high school, you're still raising your children," said Sen. Martin Nesbitt, D-Buncombe."

I didn't have my career path decided by 10th grade. But I could certainly see how this fits in with the scheme to make university education more like community colleges.

2/7/2013 2:51:28 PM

that's actually pretty related to the original topic, so no hate from me

2/7/2013 2:56:20 PM

i admittedly haven't read this entire thread, but here are my thoughts on the subject: if there is such a preponderance of majors in these fields in comparison to the number of available jobs, why don't they just make these departments smaller and much more selective?

i don't think anyone is really against history, art, literature and the like, but rather find the degrees "wasteful" because it's so unrealistic to expect a meaningful job in these fields when you graduate.

2/7/2013 3:01:17 PM

I'm all for vocational education as an alternative to college, but not as an alternative to high school.

2/7/2013 3:11:19 PM

^ why?

I think vocational should be an "alternative" (really just co exist) to high school, and college is college.

A vocational trade might show someone they're interested in something which might motivate them for college.

2/7/2013 3:35:25 PM

Quote :

"I didn't have my career path decided by 10th grade. But I could certainly see how this fits in with the scheme to make university education more like community colleges."

Eh, in my experience given the sorts of students they send to VoTech in high school (what it was called where I went to school) and the stigma attached to it, if you're going to VoTech, your career path pretty much was decided. Of course, there's also the problems of the various remedial / normal / advanced tracks that you get locked into in elementary school (again, my experience in NY, could well be different down here). That said, I'm not sure what the purpose of marking the diploma is, unless it's something like the difference between a local and regents diploma in NY meaning you passed higher educational requirements.

I would very much like to see more concerted effort towards making vocational schools and careers an acceptable path through high school and beyond. It's so very heavily stigmatized, and it really shouldn't be as a lot of those careers are not only important and useful, but pay well and can provide a perfectly normal standard of living. Not everyone is cut out for or wants or should go to college right out of high school but our societal obsession with college means many more students are going that could be doing other things.

2/7/2013 4:02:17 PM

“ The liberally educated person is one who is able to resist the easy and preferred answers, not because he is obstinate but because he knows others worthy of consideration. ”
— Allan Bloom

2/7/2013 5:52:34 PM

not gonna look through this thread to see if these charts have been posted, but here is an article with some charts about this very subject:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/liberal-arts-majors-didnt-kill-the-economy/272940/





[Edited on February 9, 2013 at 7:42 PM. Reason : IBT "Har Har at that headline pic being of a Carolina graduation"]

2/9/2013 7:41:33 PM

It sounds to me like he wants to get rid of the stupid liberal arts majors and keep the good ones. You can get good jobs that are important to society with degrees from CHASS. We need lawyers, social works, librarians, teachers, psychologist etc. Of course, to get the good jobs you have to go to law school, or do some other type of graduate work.

2/9/2013 10:06:39 PM

^ what are the "stupid" ones?

2/10/2013 1:45:06 PM

And why should that decision come from the Governor's office?

2/10/2013 2:33:21 PM

Or the availability of jobs that align with those majors?

2/10/2013 4:10:25 PM

You're right.

The state's economy and unemployment levels are none of their business.

Carry on.

2/11/2013 12:34:11 PM

We are talking about higher education curriculum

But thanks for trying

2/11/2013 12:35:26 PM

You're right.

They're completely unrelated.

Carry on.

2/11/2013 12:42:37 PM

Quote :

"^ what are the "stupid" ones?"

WTF is gender studies? That seemed to be the one that is getting called out in the article.

2/11/2013 10:51:11 PM

My point, my wife has an extremely successful career despite having a degree in English from Carolina. Granted, it is in publishing which is ancillary related to her degree but marketing and she never got an MBA or whatever. I don't think correlating liberal arts degrees with careers is completely accurate though my wife may just be an outlier admittedly. It seems to me that liberal arts degrees enable people to get jobs not directly related to their degrees while engineering degrees such as mine locks us into the industry.

2/11/2013 11:02:12 PM

^^ I'd bet most people in those majors are dual majoring or minoring.

Do you honestly think eliminating those programs would eliminate any actual classes? They'd just get rolled into some other program.

Cutting them would only serve the purposes of feeding the ego of big-government, anti-education conservatives who will use the power gained from that victory to promote anti-evolution stances.

2/11/2013 11:09:07 PM

^^a liberal arts degree allows people the flexibility to pursue multiple career paths. It also allows them the option to change their course mid-career if they want, because they have a broad set of skillsets that aren't narrowly defined by any one industry. This is probably a lot less common in fields like engineering.


But it's much more fun to assume that they all work at Starbucks and repeat tired stereotypes.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 11:11 PM. Reason : ]

2/11/2013 11:11:03 PM

^There are people with engineering degrees that have jobs that aren't related to engineering. My boss is one of those types. There are plenty of people who change careers without going to school for something else.

2/12/2013 11:05:43 PM

^^That is totally false. Any engineering degree will give you a foundation for a wide variety of career paths - anything that involves math, experimentation, critical thinking skills or technical knowledge. How the hell does a liberal arts degree like history or art give you a broad set of skills applicable in the marketplace?

It is BECAUSE their degrees are narrow that liberal arts grads often end up in careers outside their field of study. Also, you have a lot less companies partnering with universities to snap up liberal arts professionals, compared to engineering grads.

[Edited on February 14, 2013 at 10:23 AM. Reason : .]

2/14/2013 10:17:45 AM

I have an engineering degree and I'm a lawyer doing things completely unrelated to engineering right now, but I also have an English degree and worked at a vaccine company and the Patent Office for a while.

Both have been useful to me; I probably use the skills I learned with the English degree more than the engineering degree on a daily basis though.

2/14/2013 10:29:06 AM

lots of generalities stated as facts in this thread

2/14/2013 10:30:16 AM

^^ so either your current job in law doesn't deal with patents, or you still deal with patents in a way that is somehow unrelated to engineering. The latter would be difficult to imagine.

It's really surprising how much of knowledge oriented jobs in industry are related to law and patents. Such is the way of things. I don't think our engineering programs mirror this very well.

2/14/2013 11:09:32 AM

^Right, current job does not deal with patents. I really hated patent work but the legal job market is famously terrible so it took a little while to get out of Alexandria.

E: There's a grad-level class about basic intellectual property law for engineers at State, but I do think it would be useful at an undergrad level too. You really can't invent anything without having to get tangled up in IP somewhere down the line.

[Edited on February 14, 2013 at 11:29 AM. Reason : ]

2/14/2013 11:28:08 AM

Bump to say:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by-increasing-number-of-companies.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0

HOW MANY PEOPLE HAS THE NEW YORK TIMES EVER HIRED

2/20/2013 9:07:18 AM

we need more philosophy majors to fill all of the tanning salon attendant vacancies.

2/20/2013 9:41:48 AM

2/20/2013 11:35:13 AM