got the catch can installed, pressure tested for vacuum leaks and fixed one. the engine is ready to drop in. I do need to wire up the electric fan. I'll probably do that before I put the motor in, just to make the job easier.

4/12/2009 11:34:46 AM

If you need any help on D-day just shoot me a PM.

I've got long skinny arms useful for this crap >.< .

Will take you longer to post about a fan , than to wire it .

4/12/2009 12:12:22 PM

Quote :

"pressure tested for vacuum leaks"

4/13/2009 6:21:33 PM

ahem. i pressure tested for any air escaping beyond the throttle plates (leaky blockoff plate etc), which would show up as a vacuum leak with the car running. i had to re-seat the primary injectors because the lower grommet was not sealing to the intake port.

4/14/2009 12:08:08 AM

real men pressure test with propane and check for leaks with a lighter

4/16/2009 8:02:00 PM

I finished wiring up the electric fan, trying to keep it relatively clean and serviceable. I also had to repair a couple things on the main engine harness. The pressure sensor connector was in very bad shape, so I depinned it and replaced it with a connector from a scrap harness. I also replaced the IACV connector. I have decided to remove the IACV blockoff plate that the previous owner had been running in the name of "simplicity" and reinstall it. The car idled pretty well before without one, but it would stumble on hot starts and with the power steering applied. It also needed to have throttle applied to start smoothly. I'm just tired of it, I want it to drive more like a stock car. I get sick of dealing with stupid driveability quirks, especially when I have to then explain them to others.

hopefully the motor will drop in over the next couple days. I have been sick recently so that set me back. I still need to get that IACV in, and that will mean I have to drill and tap a source of air from before the throttle plates to feed it. I also need to order a replacement heater hoses because the main one coming from the block was in marginal shape.

[Edited on April 23, 2009 at 1:36 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2009 1:33:39 AM

what kind of fan is that, looks big, or the rad looks small?

4/23/2009 1:37:52 AM

stock cooling fan from a 1989 (?_ Pontiac 6000 2.4L . it was recommended to me by another Rx-7 owner (who actually used one off the 3.1L but I think they are basically the same). The factory clutch fan on this car is enormous (bigger than the one on my Infiniti Q45) and it needed a big e-fan. The other advantage is the shroud that it comes with, as some e-fans don't really have a proper shroud. That radiator is pretty good sized, I don't think anyone would consider it small.

the fan is being switched by a temperature adjustable cooling fan output on my aftermarket ECU. that output comes out to a 2-pin diagnostic connector, so I don't have to run wires through the car.

4/23/2009 1:43:05 AM

coulda at least cleaned it up

4/25/2009 8:13:00 PM

just got the motor in. I still have to connect all the other stuff (power steering, engine wiring harness, etc). then I have to figure the exhaust and intercooler piping out.

4/26/2009 10:36:49 AM

interesting belt setup off the alternator

4/26/2009 2:34:56 PM

normally there is 1 belt coming off the alternator. then there's a smog pump on the left (removed here) with its own belt. those two belts drive the water pump. when you remove the smog pump you need a dual belt pulley for the alternator to drive the water pump reliably. Mazda changed the belt routing system completely with the 3rd generation models.

4/26/2009 3:39:57 PM

needs more rice

4/28/2009 7:09:39 AM

The driveshaft is in as well as the power steering pump. I've also begun mocking up the downpipe. Here is a crappy cellphone camera pic:



in this pic I duck-taped the turbo outlet flange. the other pieces of steel are flared so the pipe will slide right in and I can adjust lengths. I still have to add a long piece at the end with a 2 bolt flange that will bolt to the catback which I just reinstalled. I am going to have to aim the wastegate downward and toward the driver's side. Then I will angle the discharge piping around so that it can collect near the lower 45 degree bend of the main 3" exhaust stream. Fortunately, I have purchased several different 1.75" bends for this wastegate recirculation. I'm hoping to get all this done next week if my friend can finish helping me. It will be welded with an oxyacetylene torch.

On the electrical front, I ran the wiring harness through the firewall. I've got a factory boost control solenoid from a 3rd generation model on the way which I am going to attempt to control using my engine management system. I'm also going to try and wire up the useless catalytic converter overheat idiot light as a flashing knock warning light. This is a feature of my Power FC engine computer. It will also flash if my injector duty cycle gets over 85%. This part is going to be a little tricky though.

Normally that warning light only works on JDM 3rd generation cars due to harness differences, but it also works on Power FC computers for other cars like Skylines and such. I have extra wiring harness pins, and I know I have to insert a wire into a pin that is normally unused (pin "1V"). I'm not completely sure about this yet, but I believe the warning light output from the ECU will put out a constant ground and then interrupt that ground when knock is detected. My idiot light already gets ignition power and needs to see ground to be lit. So in order to avoid my idiot light coming on all the time and turning off when knock is detected, I will be utilizing the Normally Closed contacts on a 5 pin relay. Here is the diagram I have put together for now:



[Edited on May 1, 2009 at 4:35 PM. Reason : pics]

5/1/2009 4:10:19 PM

Quote :

"It will be welded with an oxyacetylene torch. "

get you some dawg

5/1/2009 4:36:25 PM

I can oxy weld and braze if you need, ray

5/1/2009 5:14:21 PM

Quote :

"interesting belt setup off the alternator"

chrysler products used a dual V belt setup for many many years. the ginormous twin cylinder a/c compressors they used required it. it's also nice if you throw or break a belt you're not left completely stranded.

Quote :

"It will be welded with an oxyacetylene torch."

why? i can understand if that's all you've got to work with, but it's not like there aren't a few people on here that could mig it up for you nicely. or hell, spend a few bucks and have hamilton's tig it.

Quote :

"I get sick of dealing with stupid driveability quirks, especially when I have to then explain them to others."

lol, i hate that too. "uhhh, i think there's something wrong with your car... it's vibrating/shaking and running really rough at idle."

5/1/2009 6:33:25 PM

Quote :

"but it's not like there aren't a few people on here that could mig it up for you nicely."

Who are these people? I need a down pipe welded as well.....

5/1/2009 7:02:21 PM

in raleigh there's Jeepman, zxappeal, gk2004, myself...

5/1/2009 9:17:39 PM

I'm guess I'm still working out the details on the welding. The original plan was to get my own welder, teach myself how to do it, and fab the whole thing on my own. But the money I was going to spend on that went to engine internals. Now I'm thinking I may get most of it migged by someone and do some final welds at my parents' house where I keep the car. I am very concerned about fitment obviously, and there's no way to know for sure if it's right when the car isn't in the presence of the welder. My friend who mocked it up does torch welding and offered to help, but we'll see. The bottom line is, the car isn't coming off jackstands until I am sure I built the motor correctly and it won't leave me stranded. I am hell-bent on that. It will not be towed to a shop, because I can't get it back up my parents' driveway into the garage again.

I am thinking now that I am going to just put the main downpipe together for now and leave the wastegate open-vented during break-in since I won't be boosting anyway. Then I will deal with the recirculation issue later.

Quinn, what I did was buy pre-bent sections of mild steel from Henry's Muffler. The mandrel bent sections came flared on the end, and they can flare the ends of any straight sections you may need to buy What turbo are you running? Is it a Mitsu unit with an O2 housing, or are you running a Garrett style with a 5 bolt internal wastegate setup on the outlet? You will need to make a parts list of weld flanges and bends. I actually got some stuff from Vibrant Performance http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1035_1067_1123_1156 and others directly from Tial (wastegate stuff). Phantasm selsl Vibrant stuff at the regular retail price but you won't pay shipping. Vibrant's price on piping and mandrel bends is expensive, so that's why I went to Henry's for that.

[Edited on May 2, 2009 at 2:32 AM. Reason : Quinn]

5/2/2009 2:21:24 AM

I'm running a MHI 16G. The reason is they are really cheap. I already have the exhaust flange but I chose not to go with a pre-made 02 housing. I have a J pipe for the cold output. All this exhaust stuff seems pretty simple its just finding all the damn gaskets >.< . I didnt know henrys muffler shop had mandrel bends for sale. I should have asked while i was there. Doh!

Where did you get your injectors tested or did you just run em? I really dont want to risk blowing up my motor if one of my 4 50$ injectors is clogged. They are out of an old eclipse so....who knows.

5/2/2009 9:08:24 AM

you have the DSM 450s. Did they come with the connectors? I think they are the regular EV1 Bosch style, similar to a bunch of 80s cars. Do yourself a favor and don't use beat up connectors, they get really brittle and the little retaining clip won't stay on. And the last thing you need is an intermittent firing injector. I have heard you can get connector pigtails from some auto parts stores too, I've just never tried. What are you using for a resistor pack? You can wire that in by the ECU if you want to hide it, or buy individual resistors from Mouser Electronics. I used to use 10 watt 6 ohm. Now I have an engine harness from an 87 model Rx-7 which has a resistor pack built in.

As far as cleaning goes, I've had a couple friends take their injectors to Chason's Diesel in Garner: http://local.dailysoutherner.com/Chason+Diesel+Service.262135.5894895.home.html . Personally, I bought my secondary injectors were brand new and my primary's were low mileage, probably under 10k. I'm not worried about them, they flowed enough for 21psi before.

Henry's can order mild steel mandrel bends. Their shipments come in on Thursday so they usually want you to order on Tuesday or Wednesday. You'll also need to mention the O2 bung and flanges and such. As far as gaskets go, well you can obviously go ebay. But those are made in China knockoff bullshit, and I've learned not to mess around with aftermarket OEM-replacement gaskets. I would go right to the Mitsubishi dealership, tell them you have a 91 GSX or whatever, and look through their diagrams for what you need. It does not pay to go cheap with gaskets.

[Edited on May 2, 2009 at 9:58 AM. Reason : .]

5/2/2009 9:55:03 AM

I'm going to wire the resistors right in the engine bay.

I just went to henerys, have to preorder...damn i wish i had waited for your response.

Injector clips are fine. I'm going to call that place on monday on cleaning them.

Good idea on the mitsu dealer.


Oh how are the prices on the bends?

[Edited on May 2, 2009 at 10:44 AM. Reason : . not paying shipping will help]

5/2/2009 10:43:08 AM

Their prices were similar to what ATP turbo wanted for bends, without the shipping of course. it was like $30 for a mandrel 3" 45 degree, but I'm guessing you are going with 2.5" ?

Another option is to buy a J-bend from Vibrant for around $50:

http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1022_1035_1065_1116&products_id=953 and cut it up. That may make more sense for you, and that's what I got for my wastegate recirculation. Phantasm will sell it to you at the list price on the site without paying shipping.

I found that Henry's had the best deal on 2 bolt flanges and straight 3" sections, and they usually have that in stock. I think they were $7 a foot for 3".

5/2/2009 11:13:58 AM

I got all the mitsu diagram cds somewhere...

5/2/2009 1:45:38 PM

this place http://www.streetimports.com also has good prices on U/J pipes, silicone couplers, etc. they sell polished stainless for about the same price as aluminized mild from other places.

either of you (arghx/Quinn) are welcome to learn/practice with my welder if you wanted to do it yourself. you won't hurt anything, at least 10-15 other people have learned on it. it's sitting over at Jeepman's right now, just get up with him about whenever he's going to be around in his garage. he's probably even got some scrap steel around to play with. if he doesn't, i do.

5/2/2009 10:10:13 PM

Quote :

"Their prices were similar to what ATP turbo wanted for bends, without the shipping of course. it was like $30 for a mandrel 3" 45 degree, but I'm guessing you are going with 2.5" ?"

I may go 3" although thats larger than the output of the turbo so is there any point? I was going to go as large as I could fit on the flange and still get the bolts in. I'll have a 3" cutout where a cat usually goes, and a 2.5" exhaust behind that for when its closed. That was the plan but we all know how plans go !


^
Ray, this sounds like our shot. Maybe we should both get our shit squared away and go at one time.

5/3/2009 7:52:42 AM

I was thinking of ordering from here :

http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/mandrel-bends-34/mild-steel-16-gauge-35/index-3.html


Shipping isn't completely out of line. They allow you to select from multiple carriers and in store pickup is an option. That usually means they are not going to reem you on the "handling" . These are not flared like you mentioned but a tool to flare the pipe is pretty cheap right? Sorry for my n00b questions to clog your build thread.

5/3/2009 11:35:53 AM

Quote :

"These are not flared like you mentioned but a tool to flare the pipe is pretty cheap right? "

Doubtful for 3", i think the cheapo pieces at the car parts stores are ~2", and they dont work well at all.

In all honesty, I'm no stranger to butt welding exhaust tubing. As long as you can make your cuts decent and get your setup right there should be no issue.

5/3/2009 1:58:33 PM

This project has become more time-sensitive as my parents are getting tired of me doing major work in their garage. Learning to weld is going to have to be a separate endeavor from the main car project. I already spent a TON of time and money on DIY porting and polishing of various components (probably have 30 hours and $400 spent).

I have decided I am going to bring the mocked-up downpipe to Henry's and I will get them to weld the pieces together, just because they will do it fast and dependably. The Henry's Millbrook location is 5 minutes from where the car is and I usually get good deals on labor because I have gone there for years and referred a bunch of people there.

The current gameplan is to do this in three stages. First I will have the v-band flange and the first 45 degree elbow completely welded, and get the 2 bolt flange welded to the main straight piece in the back.

In the second stage I will mock up with duck tape the most fitment-critical part, the connection between the second 45 degree piece and the straight piece. The flared ends will help with this a lot. Then I will also stick the hanger in the correct location with duck tape and mark the location of the O2 bung with a sharpy marker. Hopefully when i get all that welded the main downpipe will fit.

The final stage is when I get the wastegate recirculated and may add a hollowed-out cat. But I'll wait until the motor is ready to be boosting, because I also have to redo part of my intercooler piping as well.

Quinn, if you're going to a 2.5" catback you might as well just go with a 2.5" downpipe IMO. It will be a bit cheaper and also make fitment easier, plus I don't think it's going to hurt power noticeably.

5/3/2009 3:55:32 PM

Quote :

"Quinn, if you're going to a 2.5" catback you might as well just go with a 2.5" downpipe IMO. It will be a bit cheaper and also make fitment easier, plus I don't think it's going to hurt power noticeably."

I'm trying to get 350bhp out of a 1.6L with a 200$ turbo. I need every bit of noticeably i can get! As far as fitment goes i can currently stand in my engine bay....with the exhaust manifold installed. The hardest thing to clear is going to be the bleeder valve on the clutch slave.

Did the carbide bits you bought work good on cast iron? I may port my starter manifold....the dremel bits I have die in a quickness.



[Edited on May 3, 2009 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2009 4:03:40 PM

the small thin carbide bits wear out quickly, and I did most of my cutting on aluminum. If pretty/precise holes aren't that important, I would go with the larger and more cylindrical-ish bits.

The thing about the exhaust diameter (talking about turbo-back, not manifold runners) is controlling noise, if you care about that at all. If I didn't care about noise much I would leave the wastegate open-vented and go 4" exhaust by relocating my wastegate for more downpipe clearance. The catback I have is considered the quietest 3" system you can buy for this car and I want to keep it. Most people with custom turbo cars get sick of them being really loud if they own the car long enough.

[Edited on May 3, 2009 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2009 4:28:35 PM

http://www.dmhperformance.com/ecutout.htm

I was thinking of something like this on the 3" section, then doing a transition to 2.5" for my exhaust past it. Best of both worlds?

5/3/2009 7:23:27 PM

I've heard bad things about the longevity of cutouts. They always seem to leak, or at least that's what my LS1 friends tell me. And electronic cutouts are relatively expensive.

Why don't you just do an atmospheric dump of your internal wastegate ("o2 dump" in dsm lingo)? Then you pretty much have a cutout when your wastegate opens, but normal cruising is still quiet. It's just like an external wastegate vented to atmosphere. I have driven a turbo Civic with a vented external wastegate and it's not that loud, nowhere near as earsplitting as Rx-7's with open wastegate. Here's one pic of an o2 dump that I grabbed from some random forum post off google:



you could just use this weld flange and weld a pipe on the end. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DSM-14b-16g-1g-2g-downpipe-down-pipe-turbo-plate-flange_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ33742QQihZ002QQitemZ120402442747#ebayphotohosting



I know Henry's could do something custom for you if you brought them the flange, you just have to go over there and explain what you're trying to do. They don't do that type of work on a daily basis, but Donald is usually good at figuring something out if you give him enough information, and his industrial grade pipe expander/crusher thing can do a lot. He made a custom merge collector for my two wastegate runners that you can see in one of the pics I have posted recently. He took a piece of pipe and flared it at one end, then pinched it a bit in the middle to form it around the two runners.



[Edited on May 4, 2009 at 12:53 AM. Reason : wastegate]

5/4/2009 12:50:46 AM

Yeah I've heard the same thing as far as reliability.....maybe I will do as you described instead.

I already have that exact flange. You must have some good connection with Henry's because every time i walk in there it is complete deer in the headlights look.

Your turbo looks much more impressive >.< .

5/4/2009 7:31:16 AM

looks pretty negrofied to me

5/5/2009 11:10:14 AM

Quote :

"69.... I feel sorry for you. I really do. I understand. the Internets is your thing. it makes u feel 'big and bad' and you use it to make up for something that you are lacking in your life. shit if i had to look at that ugly mug that ur sporting everyday in the mirror I too would be a dick head on the Internets too. actually, i probably would have cut my face off with a rusty lawn mower blade by now. do yourself a favor and work on improving yourself before you criticize others. "

5/5/2009 3:26:55 PM

was it tig welded, and is that aluminized pipe

[Edited on May 5, 2009 at 7:40 PM. Reason : dont look like it will last]

5/5/2009 7:31:02 PM

1. it was mig welded

2. it was non-stainless muffler store piping, I presume aluminized. I paid like $10 for the whole job.

3. aftermarket exhaust manifolds usually don't last anyway. at least it's not ebay.

[Edited on May 5, 2009 at 8:32 PM. Reason : tubular turbo manifolds usually last a small fraction of the life of OEM cast pieces]

5/5/2009 8:30:50 PM

I mounted the EGT signal converter (right) and the boost control solenoid (left) on the passenger side fenderwall. The boost control solenoid is OEM from a 3rd gen model. I soldered the connectors and then covered it with that grey sleeving which is from my old factory engine harness. Now I still have some vacuum routing to do. I am going to use stainless steel hose on the main wastegate line for increased reliability.



The exhaust is coming along. I put a bunch of it together and took it to Henry's to get welded, but I think I need someone to make a house call and help me with this last weld here, which will need to be done on the car to make sure everything fits.

I'm going out of town this coming week, but I'm going to try and make a bunch of progress the following week.

5/10/2009 10:35:34 AM

When you are doing calculations for sizing turbo compressor maps what do you use for displacement and VE on a rotary?

5/10/2009 10:47:56 AM

2.6L , and I usually pick 90-95% VE . but the key is that you get approximately .75-.80 whp average per lb/min versus say .95-1.05 average whp on a piston engine. That's partially why I was flowing nearly 50 lb/min or so on my old turbo and hit right around 390rwhp. Those calculations can get confusing because of all the different units people or equipment throw around.

Engine airflow calculation formula (I think I did this right...):

Displacement x RPM x Volumetric Efficiency x (Pressure Ratio / 5660) = CFM ; CFM / 14.27 = lb/min

Displacement: 2.6 L
RPM : 7000

VE : let's say 95% here because I saw my VE curve/fuel requirements peak at 7000rpm and required fuel consumption dropped after that according to my injector pulsewidth map

Pressure ratio (I think this is correct): Boost pressure + atmospheric pressure = Pressure ratio

according to the onboard MAP sensor reading, at 7000 rpm boost fell slightly to about 1.22 bar boost or 17.75psi. So total pressure ratio was 1.22 boost + 1.02 bar atmosphere (1018 millibars according to the Dynojet log) = 2.24 PR .

so the engine itself was ingesting: 2.6L * 7000rpm * 95 * (2.24 PR / 5660) = 684.26 cfm . 684.26 / 14.27 (cfm per lb/min conversion) = 47.95 lb/min (or ~362 gram/sec if you measured through a MAF sensor). 47.95 lb/min * 10 hp per lb/min = ~479rwhp on a piston motor. 479 *.80 as the "rotary correction factor" gives 383rwhp , which is what I got on my first dyno pull actually.



So then we take our airflow calculation and plot it on the compressor map and try to figure out what efficiency % the turbo is at. You can see by the line that I have drawn that I was starting to get outside the peak efficiency of the turbo, which is one of the reasons why I ditched it. That map doesn't have efficiency numbers but I'm guessing it is around 71-73% based on maps from the 62-1 wheel, which is slightly larger than what I had. A bigger turbo would probably be at 75-78% efficiency at that range.

Of course you can "play around" with the efficiency numbers in that formula to make something agree with real life numbers. Formulas can be pretty inaccurate on a lot of applications, and they don't account for inefficiencies on the turbine side which could be choking off power.

5/10/2009 3:02:08 PM

2.6L and 95% was all that was needed .

I've done all my math (thank god all this stuff is so stupid simple) looking for ~30lb/min (432CFM). Need 21psi. Pressure ratio 2.5 (rounded up. my idea was to help make up for intercooler drop?).

May not be able to hot link this but its a big 16G compressor map



Looks to be in the 68-70 region. Should do?


I wish i could afford a GT30/GT35. They seem to plot out to be ideal for my goal. This cheap dsm stuff will have to do though.




[Edited on May 10, 2009 at 4:28 PM. Reason : .]

5/10/2009 4:25:07 PM

the explanation of the calculation was more for the benefit of anyone else reading who has never done one before. it's some physics 205 shit though, you're right.

Compared to the big T4 sized compressor wheels 70% efficiency is considered kinda crappy, but people crank those 16Gs up all the time and seem to get by. just shows how formulas and calculators can only go so far.

For what it's worth, I had a friend with a Vr-4 who ran 21psi on two Big 16Gs. I drove it once and it was INSANE for just a street car. he usually ran race fuel... but a lot of Vr-4 engine management systems are relatively ghetto so he had no timing control

5/10/2009 5:57:37 PM

Well the best region on the entire graph is 71. I don't think 2% off that mark is going to elevate discharge (lol) temperatures leaps and bounds. I think the intercooler will do its best to cool it. I guess I will know soon!

5/11/2009 8:27:55 AM

^^^^ I haven't read it, but that looks like some complicated shit... More power to you learning all this stuff man.

5/11/2009 11:36:16 AM

algebra 1 and enough geometry to grasp the Cartesian coordinate system......you people down play your ability too much!

5/11/2009 6:30:05 PM

Quote :

"Displacement x RPM x Volumetric Efficiency x (Pressure Ratio / 5660) = CFM ; CFM / 14.27 = lb/min"

Is the 5660 a conversion factor? I've gotten lost in my units somewhere trying to work backward from lb/min.

xx% not .xx

[Edited on May 12, 2009 at 1:08 PM. Reason : fixed]

5/12/2009 1:06:00 PM

^ same damn thing, 12%=.12

5/19/2009 9:32:25 PM

intercooler piping is done. it's not the prettiest thing, but I can redo it later.

5/19/2009 10:50:25 PM