Here is an interesting case. This home I passed by today is in a desirable North Raleigh neighborhood, 6,975 sq feet, 5 bedrooms, 3full bath, 2half bath. It was at one point listed for 1.25 million and has been on the market on and off since 1992 without selling. By looking at the deed history it appears the same family has owned it since 1992 and paid $225,000 for it??

The home is absolutely beautiful but looks to be abandoned. Early signs of rot can be seen on the deck and around some of the windows. It is completely vacant, and looks as if it has been for quite some time.

Here is the history of what it has been offered for sale at.
1995 1.1 million
1996 995,000
1998 995,000
2001 1.25 million
2002 999,900
2003 799,900
2005 850,000

Over the course of time it has been listed with some of the best Realtors in Raleigh, but has not sold. I am baffled that in 12 years it has not sold. The home looks absolutely beautiful. The only reason I can think of to explain it may be that if it's covered in synthetic stucco and has hidden rot? The neighborhood seems to sell mainly between 450-800 so maybe its priced out of the market. Anyway thats my RE challenge of the day is for someone to figure out why this beautiful home has never sold and if it can be resurrected.




Sale Listing (Withdrawn)

Tax Records

2/6/2007 11:22:51 PM

It's god awful ugly.

For $1M, you can build anything you want in Raleigh.

[Edited on February 6, 2007 at 11:39 PM. Reason : ?]

2/6/2007 11:37:41 PM

^$1m will not build you "anything" in the raleigh area. it will build you a decent amount depending on the area and quality of work though.

2/7/2007 12:34:45 AM

Quote :

"It's god awful ugly"

2/7/2007 7:56:09 AM

Quote :

"^$1m will not build you "anything" in the raleigh area. it will build you a decent amount depending on the area and quality of work though."

It'll build better than that.

2/7/2007 8:05:49 AM

Quote :

"It's god awful ugly."

2/7/2007 12:04:48 PM

Quote :

"It's god awful ugly."

also, it only has .44 acres? If I had a house that big it better be sitting on more than that.

[Edited on February 7, 2007 at 12:49 PM. Reason : yard]

2/7/2007 12:47:22 PM

they're putting 4500-5500 sqft on .25 acres with 3 foot setbacks in Cary

the lot price guides what you build on it

and the house in question has been priced right, i'd be curious to see what the bank situation looks like

it's also really ugly

i know several $1-3+ million builds that sat for a few years looking pretty much totally finished that had to be totally scraped after the money ran and out so faux stucco problems could very well be your answer

[Edited on February 7, 2007 at 1:15 PM. Reason : ugly too]

2/7/2007 1:11:50 PM

1. You couldn't buy a house for $225k in 1992 and sell it for $1,100,000 in 1995.
2. The lot is too small. People with that kind of cash don't want to buy a huge house and feel like they are trapped inside of it because they have no yard. Land is [relatively] cheap in the Raleigh area and people don't mind paying for it which is why we have such huge sprawl.
3. You mentioned rot. People in this market don't want to buy a "fixer upper." If they want to sell it either needs to be in prime condition or they need to discount it heavily. You've already said it is one of the most expensive homes in the neighborhood.
4. In addition to the rot, it probably is horribly out of date. Again, this is a problem for the family that is dropping a million plus on a home.

This is just a surface level analysis without looking at any of the links you posted.

2/7/2007 1:35:23 PM

polybutylene piping was still in use back then... could also be a factor, but i'm just guessing here.

2/7/2007 1:40:07 PM

its at least 15 years old, that is why its not selling.


when you have a million to spend on a house, you build one- unless youre trying to buy ITB

2/7/2007 2:04:29 PM

just curious, how do you know/can access price history and listing of realtors who have tried selling it? is that something everyone can have access to?

2/7/2007 3:47:44 PM

prob not sold b/c as above ppl mentioned for $1M you can build new with todays look and feel.
also house looks like the amityville house....j/k

2/7/2007 3:49:18 PM

Quote :

"just curious, how do you know/can access price history and listing of realtors who have tried selling it? is that something everyone can have access to? "

MLS

no

2/7/2007 3:56:14 PM

that's what i guessed...didn't know if there was something we didn't know. just wondering how he/she got to it

2/7/2007 4:04:23 PM

i think str8bacardi did/does work for a real estate firm. could be wrong tho.

2/7/2007 4:12:30 PM

coo i'll be done with my license soon and may need a hookup

2/7/2007 4:17:35 PM

what do you want to do? residential buy/sell agent?

2/7/2007 4:19:30 PM

I bet it's 80's-tastic inside.

2/7/2007 4:39:39 PM

Why does it say it was built in 1996 on the first link?

Could it be they bought the lot in 1992 and then had the house built and then put it up for sale in 1995? If so, why does that site still say 1996? Did they not finish the house til then?

[Edited on February 7, 2007 at 5:03 PM. Reason : second thought]

2/7/2007 4:59:19 PM

Quote :

"what do you want to do? residential buy/sell agent?"

ideally commercial since it seems more interesting.......i have someone trying to recruit me for land agent but land takes longer and is the hardest......residential is ok, prob easiest out of the 3

2/7/2007 5:01:13 PM

I just put down a deposit to hold a 1bed/1bath (approx 800sq ft) condo here in Jacksonville, FL. The condo is $132,000... originally listed at $140,000. Its a new construction and the builder is offering $17k in incentives. I can knock down the price 6% (down to about $125k) using the 17k and spend the rest on closing costs, upgrade, or gift cards. I also get like $2000 in rent back and 1.5% (~$1800) of the purchase price back from my realtor.

With the money I get back I will probably just deposit back into the bank, but the rest of my $17k (less closing costs, 6% off sales price) in incentives, I was thinking I'd try to upgrade the floor in the kitchen and bathroom from rubber fake wood to travertine. And upgrade the countertops to granite. I was also considering putting in hardwood floors with some of the money I get back, but I may wait and get it down the line. Any thoughts on worthwhile upgrades? I know stainless steel is kinda big right now, but the black appliances are brand new, so I don't want to upgrade right off (it would actually be cheaper to sell the black and buy the stainless on my own, rather than pay for the upgrade now). I was thinking about putting slate or some other stone on the screened in patio.

Oh, and my reasoning for this 1bed/1bath... I could afford up to a $180k condo, but with HOA and everything, I'd have like $400-500 budgeted towards food, fun, and various expense... not really enough. But with this place at around $125k, I spend $200 max more than my rent is right now.

Thoughts? I know that's a long read.

2/9/2007 10:38:47 AM

no advice, but congrats!

2/9/2007 10:45:32 AM

Your upgrades sound good. Remember you'll recoup the most of your money for upgrades done in the kitchen and bathroom. I'd suggestion using some of your 17K to put down tile.

2/9/2007 10:49:34 AM

thanks... I figured I better try to build my home equity and make any common mistakes that I will as a home owner with this less expensive residences rather than when I want to buy a house.

I've heard that about kitchens and bathrooms. I have been painfully addicted to the house flipping and real estate reselling shows on TV. And it seems they keep putting hardwood as a plus for common rooms.

2/9/2007 11:49:16 AM

Someone named Kevin Smith bought it on 02/02/07 for 225 K

2/9/2007 12:12:29 PM

That was the pkg price of when it was sold back in 1992

2/9/2007 1:12:04 PM

I dont know what just happened but it looks like that home finally changed hands.

Current SMITH, KEVIN A 02-02-2007
1 Back SOLO INVESTMENTS LLC 02-02-2007

Does not show a purchase price just a deed transfer? wtf? I guess we will see if that stucco comes down that may be the problem with it. When looking at it I noted that it looked as if water had been leaking OUT of the light fixtures on the side of the chimney which would be consistent with synthetic stucco trapping moisture inside.

I agree with some of you that this home based on styling might not sell to a million dollar discriminating buyer but based on square footage, bedrooms, baths, fireplaces, location, and other features it should have definitely sold for 799 when it was listed for that. Makes me wonder if the stucco is causing rot.

2/9/2007 1:29:36 PM

Alexwbush...
I love Travertine, but it is a heavily pitted stone that you have to seal a couple of times per year. To me it's not worth it to add more work to my current maintenance routine. You'll also pay $4-$5 per sq. ft. for the Travertine alone. Add to that the thinset, grout, tools (grout float, trowel, levels, etc.), and you'll end up paying quite a bit if the kitchen and bath is any notable square footage.

You can do porcelain or ceramic tile for $1.50 sq. ft. (plus tools/materials) and it will be much more durable and easier to maintain. It isn't as pimp as Travertine, but it's still a good choice. It's also much easier to lay because the shape and thickness is perfect whereas Travertine has a lot of imperfections.

For the other upgrades...What is your motivation? If you aren't selling the house in the next couple of years your granite and stainless appliances will be dated by the time you sell the place. If you want to get money for upgrades you have to do them right before you sell. My girlfriend does kitchen design for a living and she can walk into any kitchen and tell almost exactly when it was remodelled. I'd just keep the black appliances and make minor upgrades if needed such as new formica counters, new drawer pulls, etc. if you're going to keep the place for a while.

I have seen some nice alternatives to granite that are much more cost effective. You could build concrete counters for a few hundred bucks. They can look really good or really bad depending on how you do it. You'll have to add dye to the concrete to get the color that you want and you can also implement crushed (colored) glass and whatnot.

I've seen copper counters with distressed black cabinets that looked amazing. The bar at The Rockford has a copper top if you've ever been there.

Hardwoods are a great idea. They last forever, they don't trap dust/dirt like carpet, and they will add resale value to your condo for decades to come. For the hardwoods, check out lumberliquidators.com. Great pricing. They have a local store here in Raleigh, so there might be one there too.

[Edited on February 9, 2007 at 1:35 PM. Reason : s]

2/9/2007 1:31:16 PM

you know an awful lot about tile/stone, you in the biz?

2/9/2007 2:17:05 PM

thanks for the tips

you make a good point about granite. It is pretty expensive. I think the builder was offering to do it for around $4500. Right now I have a faux granite formica countertop in there. I thought it was granite until I saw it up close. I was thinking the flooring would be worth it. I would like to put hardwood in the living/dining area and upgrade the carpet in the bedroom (I don't think it has much padding). The builder does offer to upgrade the kitchen and bathroom to travertine for like $1800. I think that'd be worth it. I have been trying to price out some having the flooring done myself. Any idea where a good place to go is for travertine, hardwood, and carpeting? It doesn't have to be all in one place, but I don't know if home depot or lowes is recommended or not (I am not in Raleigh).

2/9/2007 2:19:17 PM

depending on the type and thickness, 4500 isn't horrible for a full kitchen.

2/9/2007 2:25:42 PM

I got corian and laminate in my kitchen. You guys know anything about it?

2/9/2007 2:27:01 PM

I wouldnt plunge a lot of money into a condo.

People buy condos because they are affordable.

Turn your $125,000 condo into a $150,000 condo and people might buy the $125,000 condo's on the market just like you did.


Put your money into something that will make you money. Open a portfolio.

2/9/2007 5:14:30 PM

this was one of the last 3 left, the others have sold for $140,000. And the 1bed/1baths that just opened in the new building are listed starting at $155k. So I am just trying to keep it competative. But really I wanna upgrade because I want to enjoy it before I resell it.

2/9/2007 5:50:59 PM

alexwbush
I remodeled my master bath using travertine....it looks beautiful. I bought the tile at Florida Tile for about 10.00 sq foot. It is a better quality than the tiles they hd or lowes. Not pitted as much and I chose a style with tumbled edges. The difference between the natural stone and the porcelean/ceramic is drastic.

As far as your other upgrades, granite counter tops will be timeless. Whether you sell your condo now or in 10 years that upgrade will be fine. Stainless steel appliances are also timeless investments. You can't go wrong with those choices.

2/9/2007 6:07:46 PM

granite tops are great and last forever

but make sure you have sealed that travertine and you probably will need to do it every year or so, otherwise it will wear and stain like a motherfucker

2/9/2007 8:20:50 PM

we found the townhouse we want(ed) to buy - but we need to move it 15 miles

2/9/2007 8:29:26 PM

i like the brick front a lot

but that is too much garage right in front, it's like 2/3 of the house

[Edited on February 9, 2007 at 8:30 PM. Reason : brick not stone]

2/9/2007 8:30:23 PM

yeah typically i agree that it's too much garage - i like those tacky little fake doors though

2/9/2007 8:46:32 PM

Quote :

"you know an awful lot about tile/stone, you in the biz?"

No, but I did just get done laying porcelain in my bathroom. I'm really just a control freak about every decision regarding my house, so I tend to research these things like crazy before I do anything.

I have already been through a lot of the same decisions that Alexwbush is going through now, but I was about 9 months ahead of him with my house purchase.

I'd join the tile business if I could make a 6 figure income though. Hook a brother up.

2/9/2007 9:29:50 PM

OmarBadu - regarding that townhouse, i like the brick front and unique cottage style garage.
however, pay attention to a couple of things...
1. i can't see a lot of windows in the front - if it's dark inside, that's bad
2. the driveway looks sloped downward......water will collect there at the bottom..it may even flood your front entrance....i may see some water stains..also the gutter doesn't help the cause..it seems to be pointing in the wrong direction
3. the front door looks very concaved and dark...u want a large inviting door that protrodes out...it is the most important door of a house

i grew up around feng shui and know a thing or two..but take my opinion for what it's worth...
of course, no one will ever find the perfect house...

2/9/2007 9:43:24 PM

i appreciate the comments

1) it's an end unit townhome - plenty of windows everywhere inside - the master is on the main floor - there are no windows into the garage...
2) yes water will go to the lowest point possible at any given time - that is why there is a decent sized drain the entire length of the driveway
3) probably the worst picture possible to show the front door - but yes it is covered so you won't get rained on while i'm taking my time to open the door for someone - definitely not the high point though

2/9/2007 9:54:02 PM

if possible install some floodlights by the gutter to shine on the driveway...also always light up the entrance as well since it seems dark....attracts luck..not sure what direction your front door faces, but SE is best, then S, then E

2/9/2007 10:31:16 PM

what do you guys think about hardwood in the bedroom? my girlfriend is trying to convince me it doesn't belong.

2/10/2007 12:55:54 AM

There is no sound dampening, so everything sounds louder. It's cold to your feet when you get out of bed in the morning. You can always put down a rug and get rid of some of that. Having had them in a bedroom in the past I don't care for them, but I don't think it is a bad thing if you want to do it.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention earlier that you have to seal granite about once a year or else it can trap bacteria and stain.

[Edited on February 10, 2007 at 1:30 AM. Reason : l]

2/10/2007 1:26:10 AM

^^ if you like hardwood, get hardwood

^ you can't seal 95% of granites, they aren't porous enough to take a sealing compound (and thus do not stain)

if you want to know if you need to seal yours put a little water in one spot and a little mineral oil in another

wipe them up after 15 minutes and if there's a dark spot where one was you know (the dark spot will evaporate)
1) that you need to seal
2) what kind of seal you need

the only granite that needs sealed are the lightest colored ones with large veins

how do i know you ask? i spent two hours talking with the biggest granite and marble distributor in the state a couple weeks ago and we covered the topic in great detail because i've been told lots of conflicting stuff by builders and installers

2/10/2007 11:56:34 AM

Quote :

"but that is too much garage right in front, it's like 2/3 of the house"

kb homes are even worse. If you want a 2 car garage, it will cover 90% of the front of the house.

So, corian and laminate...?

2/10/2007 12:16:09 PM

i'm not sure how you have both - i thought those were an either/or - you definitely want corian over laminate though - corian is basically 1 step down from granite - laminate is probably 10 steps down

2/10/2007 12:32:21 PM

Heh, sorry. Corian for the countertops and laminate for the floors.

2/10/2007 12:48:22 PM