.45

9/21/2016 9:01:30 AM

Wait Wait Wait, what happens today if you're pulled over and don't have a registration? The officer writes a citation, right?

People ignore those citations today, at the risk of having their license revoked and having to pay a fine. I still don't see what having a police officer physically present adds to the equation.

9/21/2016 9:02:05 AM

That's what I'm saying - if we can't just get rid of the laws, we can certainly automate some of it to remove the potential for escalation.

And hell, if you've ignored repeated citations, then you can issue a warrant. Or, you can issue a boot on the car in someone's driveway. That's even better. Avoids messing with someone's record, yet makes it where they have to pay up if they want the privilege to drive back.

9/21/2016 9:05:30 AM

I say all of this as someone who lives in a city where traffic cameras (speed and red light) are overused because they are a cash cow for the city.

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 9:07 AM. Reason : J]

9/21/2016 9:07:35 AM

Nothing at all.

The opposition to so much of this reform and criminal justice reform comes from public sector unions. The FOP wields enormous influence as do the correctional officers unions. These folks have a vested interest on the job security that comes from having many awful laws being over zealously enforced. It's going to be a hard thing to reform.

9/21/2016 9:08:52 AM

Wait, so you can get an automated ticket for speeding in DC?

9/21/2016 9:09:00 AM

Those laws are enforced so police can have cause for the "entanglement." Also, for money.

The police would never want to give up their ability to pull over hundreds of thousands of people and investigate them.

9/21/2016 9:10:46 AM

While we're talking about reform and shrinking the police force, Chicago add's 1000 to theirs.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/chicago-police-department-hire-thousand-officers/index.html?adkey=bn

9/21/2016 9:13:01 AM

Quote :

"Wait Wait Wait, what happens today if you're pulled over and don't have a registration? The officer writes a citation, right? People ignore those citations today, at the risk of having their license revoked and having to pay a fine. I still don't see what having a police officer physically present adds to the equation. "

The officer writes a citation which includes a court date and there is verifiable proof that the driver was informed of said court date. The driver then has to meet the court date or gets a warrant out for his arrest.

If the system relies purely on cameras, I can promise you that issues would happen, people not get their bill in the mail for whatever reason, people just forget about it, etc and that would result in more warrants and more police having to track people down.

In short, the officer, in my opinion, creates more proof that the driver actually received the citation and makes it more likely that the driver will do something about the issue.

9/21/2016 9:13:16 AM

In DC:

Red light violation: $50
1-10 mph over: $50
11-15: $100
16-20: $150
21-25: $200
26+: 300


DC also likes to play a game of 'hide the camera'. Their portable cameras seemingly move around the city bi-monthly.

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 9:17 AM. Reason : ^ eh, those are the same problems prevalent with speeding tickets mailed to the home.]

9/21/2016 9:15:30 AM

Or you could just boot their car in the driveway rather than issue an arrest warrant. I guarantee you that boot will get more done than the warrant ever would.

How many escalations or shootings have resulted from the attempt to issue some stupid warrant for minor violations?

^Wow I didn't realize we'd already automated speeding violations.


[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 9:17 AM. Reason : edit]

9/21/2016 9:16:46 AM

I dislike the idea of booting someone's car at their home. Eliminates their ability to do simple things like take kids to school, drive to work, or seek emergency medical aid if needed. It seems like it would be a greater revenue generator than tickets.

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 9:20 AM. Reason : a]

9/21/2016 9:19:24 AM

I think your argument for police physically stopping people is stronger for those driving without a license, registration, and insurance. Fuck those guys.

9/21/2016 9:23:35 AM

Traffic stops are not about traffic safety. They are about escalating to greater charges, primarily drugs and drunk driving, the cash cows. Cops will admit this and the ones who won't are lying.

9/21/2016 9:38:08 AM

Exactly, so why not introduce reform (from the outside) that will limit the number of traffic stops.

9/21/2016 9:43:02 AM

You'll get screaming opposition from the criminal industrial complex. The only way that it might have a chance is because of good old cronyism as some corporate interests donate money and grease palms for those juicy contracts to supply equipment, store data, repair, etc.

Speed cameras are pretty shitty, they're wildly unpopular everywhere they exist, but I'd prefer them to cops on the highway with radar guns.

One of the problems is that they'll be used the same way as cops, for revenue. Speed limits won't be based on safety, they'll be set to collect cash.

We just need fewer laws and fewer cops in general, but the courts, prisons, and LEO industries are so massive that they're an impediment to change just like the military industrial complex.

9/21/2016 11:11:51 AM

Quote :

"I dislike the idea of booting someone's car at their home. Eliminates their ability to do simple things like take kids to school, drive to work, or seek emergency medical aid if needed. It seems like it would be a greater revenue generator than tickets."

if they booted a car at my home, that boot would disappear and i would have no knowledge of it.

9/21/2016 11:15:02 AM

So you think it is just like term limits for senators.

See, reforms like the reforms we're talking about, will take a convention of states to enact. And that sounds waaaaay too much like something the right would come up with. But there's no other way. The people that pull the strings in Washington will always pull them, unless something drastic is done.

9/21/2016 11:16:30 AM

Quote :

"^Wow I didn't realize we'd already automated speeding violations."

DC and Maryland both have them. If you're in a school zone or a construction work zone, be assured that they have a camera set up to write tickets for 12mph over. They randomly move a couple of them around

Quote :

"I think your argument for police physically stopping people is stronger for those driving without a license, registration, and insurance. Fuck those guys."

I'd be all for that if they would set up video scanners for cop cars that can automatically scan license plates and target that kind of information.

9/21/2016 11:18:02 AM

well if there aren't cops actually out patrolling traffic, what is stopping people from just obscuring their plates?

9/21/2016 11:28:33 AM

I don't think anyone is saying cops don't have a place patrolling. Just that they shouldn't be responsible for minor traffic violations.

9/21/2016 11:32:48 AM

^^Nah, you still have them out there, they just aren't pegging speeders. They're looking out for reckless drivers, they could enforce dangerous equipment violations, but they aren't stopping you for failure to signal as a pretext to go fishing for something else or trying to jam up somebody they think won't have the time or resources to contest things.

It's amazing how much less scrutiny I got from cops when I went from a 1986 Nissan pickup to a newer pickup and from that to a luxury vehicle. Same driver, just suddenlyess interesting.

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 11:33 AM. Reason : Djdjms]

9/21/2016 11:33:08 AM

Quote :

"See, reforms like the reforms we're talking about, will take a convention of states to enact. And that sounds waaaaay too much like something the right would come up with."

?

9/21/2016 12:42:36 PM

Do you honestly think that term limits will come from the people directly unemployed by term limits?

Same thing with the LEO machine. Unions and lobbyists control congressmen, they aren't going to do anything about it.

9/21/2016 12:47:10 PM

how does that sound like something the right would come up with?

9/21/2016 12:51:06 PM

A states' convention doesn't sound like something Sean Hannity would say? Pfffttt.

9/21/2016 12:56:42 PM

over LEO's and our prison system?

9/21/2016 1:08:36 PM

Among other things - things that our government needs to work on but refuses to.

Oddly enough, term limits would be the one bipartisan item that would get 100% support among the public.

9/21/2016 1:13:28 PM

I like how some people truly believe that police departments are infallible organizations, while the rest of government can't be trusted.

#ALaCarteGubmint

9/21/2016 2:08:19 PM

I don't know of anyone in the last couple of pages that has mentioned a perfect law enforcement organization.

9/21/2016 2:15:13 PM

I'm primarily speaking about the #BlueLivesMatter fanatics.

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 2:58 PM. Reason : respect our cops...dammit!]

9/21/2016 2:58:06 PM

You can respect individual police officers and still raise an eyebrow over the institution for which they work.

9/21/2016 3:02:18 PM

yeah, no shit. hence, why I'm referring to the fanatics.

9/21/2016 3:04:02 PM

It should be the opposite. Critique the individuals when they deserve it. Blaming an "institution" is vague nonsense.

9/22/2016 2:17:39 PM

^except when it's "the blacks" amirite?

9/22/2016 2:19:12 PM

and the "SJWs", and the "liberals", and the "media", and the "BLMs"......

[Edited on September 22, 2016 at 2:20 PM. Reason : ]

9/22/2016 2:20:17 PM

^^whats the point in asking that?

[Edited on September 22, 2016 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

9/22/2016 2:25:23 PM

the point is...there is no point.

9/22/2016 2:34:06 PM

but why respond to him, what is the point?

9/22/2016 2:45:07 PM

If an 18 wheeler crashes on the highway every now and then you don't start petitioning the trucking industry or the stores that rely on trucks... Individual drivers make mistakes. I think it's clear the police don't like these events happening any more than we do. It isn't the "institution" that causes it though. It's inevitable that humans make mistakes. Acting as if this is evidence of "institutions" being racist is just giving the thugs an excuse to steal TVs.

9/22/2016 2:49:27 PM

If there's a problem with how these truck drivers are vetted and then trained you surely blame the industry as well as the driver.

But man, it's just funny how all of these mistakes seem to happen disproportionately to black people.

9/22/2016 2:58:45 PM

It's almost as if black people disproportionately commit violent crime. As has been explained countless times.

Do SJWs just repress this knowledge? It must be a necessary defense mechanism to maintain their narrative.

9/22/2016 3:04:29 PM

Oh snap, JCENumbers is back. Time for the thread to turn all again!

9/22/2016 3:13:43 PM

So that statistic justifies the killing of non-violent black civilians? Oops sorry, the 'mistakes'?

Are some police just trying to even out the proportions? I'm confused by your logic, if any exists.

9/22/2016 3:13:49 PM

If a truck driver crashes and kills someone and found negligent he will get fired and/or goes to jail.

There is zero accountability in the police. No one will be fired and here we are.

[Edited on September 22, 2016 at 3:15 PM. Reason : V]

9/22/2016 3:14:08 PM

Looks like they are charging the woman who shot the guy in Tulsa maybe things will calm down a little now?

9/22/2016 4:55:01 PM

1st degree manslaughter apparently.

You've got to give it to Tulsa, they're handling this situation amazingly well.

9/22/2016 5:00:22 PM

The charges don't mean shit. You honestly think a conviction will take place?

9/22/2016 5:01:24 PM

^^ they really are

9/22/2016 5:15:02 PM

Quote :

"The charges don't mean shit. You honestly think a conviction will take place?"

what would you suggest they do? trial by ordeal?

9/22/2016 5:29:59 PM