He was paid to gather information. He was not paid to do opposition research. That is a very important and yet, basis distinction that people seem to have trouble grasping.

The conversation wasn't "see if you can dig up all the bad shit on Trump."

The conversation was "we hear Trump goes to Russia a lot and want to know what he's doing there. Can you find out?"

Quote :

"So the question is did the FBI have any other evidence to warrant re-opening/extending the FISA warrant on Page? Still don't know, the memo answers nothing."

Correct. It's safe to assume they had plenty but you can't refute the claims in the memo factually without having access to the entire FISA application along with supporting intelligence. Precisely what the GOP is taking advantage of.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 2:06 PM. Reason : a]

2/2/2018 2:05:04 PM

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/959499923346677762

Release the fucking transcripts. This is all bullshit fake transparency all around..

2/2/2018 2:06:51 PM

From what I've read, it was definitely opposition research, unless you have some other information.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/politics/trump-dossier-paul-singer.html

^yes

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2018 2:07:11 PM

Sorry, trying to be more clear.

Christopher Steele himself was not tasked with gathering opposition research. He was tasked with going to Russia to find out what Trump was doing there.

Fusion GPS was contracted, effectively, to do opposition research. What Fusion GPS actually does is fact gathering. In other words, they don't only dig up dirt, they gather all information available. But the motive behind the people who hired Fusion was certainly opposition research, both by the GOP and then the Dems.

But Christopher Steele himself was strictly gathering intelligence. There was no motivation beyond that with him from the standpoint of what he was doing. So, he himself was not doing opposition research and as such, was not cherry picking information in a biased manner to damage Trump.

Now, once he saw the information he received, he realized serious shit was going down and contacted the FBI. Furthermore, it's certainly possible he at that point had an opinion about Trump becoming President of our country, but I'm not sure how that's relevant at that point.

2/2/2018 2:12:09 PM

It doesnt do much as far as a legal memo, but it does put doubt in the publics mind as far as the DOJ, the DNC and the old regime.

I think it's meant to put pressure on the DNC to show they will do anything to be in charge.

The main thing I think Trump's staff wants it to do is to raise concerns about the DOJ and the integrity of the FBI. That way they can fire the guy that is in charge of the Mueller investigation and make that go away but making those changes from the top like Rosenstein.

2/2/2018 2:28:11 PM

The Fox News crowd is irrelevant

Not that this is new info but devin Nunes is the dumbest person in congress

2/2/2018 2:48:36 PM

^^^ adultswim is the victim of republicans/republican propoganda outlets intentionally conflating fusion gps and orbis business intelligence

^^ the purpose of all of this is to cause confusion and doubt, it is gaslighting

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2018 2:49:30 PM

This is how Fusion itself claims they framed the question to Steele:

"Why did Mr. Trump repeatedly seek to do deals in a notoriously corrupt police state that most serious investors shun?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/opinion/republicans-investigation-fusion-gps.html

Sounds a little biased to me (even though it's true). And I do think it's a little naive to assume they didn't further direct the evidence gathering, given that they were being paid to find specifically negative information.

I think one of the funniest things about this is that "normal" people are put under investigation for much less on a regular basis. We have legal protections that aren't being honored. And we have no way of knowing which investigations are legal or not because the reasons behind them are secret, including this one.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 3:00 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2018 2:59:36 PM

okay earl

just in - new video of Nunes releasing the memo: https://youtu.be/P84OKTUx6LY?t=23s

2/2/2018 3:03:21 PM

I still don’t even understand the plot to this movie. Like everything the FBI did from the first Comey/Clinton thing was inadvertently but squarely helping Trump, full stop. The original Comey pressure, the reopening letters regarding email, the leaks from NY about Clinton and the non-leaks of the Trump/Russia stuff. The FBI has a history (some past) of doing awful things like with MLK but I’m not even saying they did anything wrong here. Comey probably should have never started the whole ball rolling but he made a business decision and HRC put herself in that position and no one else.

You literally have to suspend all reality, though, to look at all of this and say to yourself, “yeah they were out to get Trump and in favor of HRC.” It’s just crazytown.

But, yeah, once you realize it’s all gaslighting who cares I guess..

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 3:14 PM. Reason : Unintentionally helping Trump — didn’t want to sound conspiratorial ]

2/2/2018 3:12:46 PM

^^^this is from Simpson's testimony, pages 82 and 83:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4345522/Read-the-full-transcript-of-Glenn-Simpson-s.pdf

Quote :

"18 Q. And specific to the engagement with regard 19 to the research on Candidate Trump, why did you 20 specifically ask Mr. Steele to do that work? 21 A. The way our firm runs we pursue things, 22 you know, somewhat out of curiosity. So we didn't 23 know -- it was opaque what Donald Trump had been 24 doing on these business trips to Russia. We didn't 25 know what he was doing there. So I gave Chris -- 1 we gave Chris a sort of assignment that would be 2 typical for us which was pretty open ended. We 3 said see if you can find out what Donald Trump's 4 been doing on these trips to Russia. Since Chris 5 and I worked together over the years there's a lot 6 that didn't need to be said. That would include 7 who is he doing business with, which hotels does he 8 like to stay at, you know, did anyone ever offer 9 him anything, you know, the standard sort of things 10 you would look at. I don't think I gave him any 11 specific instructions beyond the general find out 12 what he was up to. "

And then his House testimony from 11/14/2017, pages 103-105:

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/20180118/106796/HMTG-115-IG00-20180118-SD002.pdf

Here's his testimony from 11/8/2017, but I didn't find anything in there related to Steele aside from two very brief mentions of his name on pages 11 and 16:

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/20180118/106796/HMTG-115-IG00-20180118-SD001.pdf

You're quoting an opinion piece and once again, they weren't paid to find negative information, they were paid to find information.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 3:31 PM. Reason : a]

2/2/2018 3:17:54 PM

i'm seriously wondering if trump wasn't supposed to approve the memo, or if someone was supposed to stop it before that point. the memo is full of nothing, it was much more damaging before it was released.

2/2/2018 3:24:50 PM

It would be hilarious if comms were shown between Nunes and his staff saying "this only works if Trump does not release it."

and then "jesus what was he thinking?"

2/2/2018 3:25:55 PM

Like I said, he got caught up in the conservative media bullshit feedback loop. Once Hannity started screaming at the camera (or even on the phone with Trump) "Release the memo!!!" it was a done deal.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2018 3:27:14 PM

NYT:

I've never said the FBI was partisan. They clearly aren't, but they do have an interest in maintaining power structures that aren't benevolent toward the general population.

Cherokee:

That leaves a lot up to interpretation if you read into his phrasing.

Quote :

"You're quoting an opinion piece and once again, they weren't paid to find negative information, they were paid to find information."

It was written by the founder of Fusion.

Buuuut I won't argue the point anymore. I think the investigation is 100% worthwhile, for what it's worth.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2018 3:32:04 PM

The "benevolent" remark is interesting and definitely debatable from both sides. I suppose it comes down to an evaluation of what is worse: terrorists/enemies succeeding in attacks or innocent Americans being wiretapped.

It's a fair point to debate.

And I know that the NYT article was written by him, but again, it's an op-ed. Paul Manafort was trying to write an op-ed. Trump says shit every day to the media that makes no sense.

What matters in this particular circumstance, because there is legal, sworn testimony, is the legal and sworn testimony. The op-ed, if I'm not mistaken, was written after the GOP started trying to say that the dossier was an op-research piece paid for by Hillary. He wrote that to try and set the record straight and to encourage the Senate to release his testimony (which they ultimately did).

It just so happens that that op-ed from him resonates with the testimony.

FWIW I may have misunderstood your intent on publishing that article so apologies.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 3:42 PM. Reason : a]

2/2/2018 3:36:28 PM

Quote :

"I suppose it comes down to an evaluation of what is worse: terrorists/enemies succeeding in attacks or innocent Americans being wiretapped."

There's a lot more to it than that (ex...going to war for profit), but it's for another thread.

Quote :

"He wrote that to try and set the record straight"

you mean to "Correct the Record" (his words, lol)

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 3:41 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2018 3:37:50 PM

Haha it's the same thing.

2/2/2018 3:43:16 PM

Did we already know there were 7 extensions to the FISA warrant, or is that new? because that's significant

2/2/2018 4:06:58 PM

7 extensions seems new to me if it's actually being reported. Unless it's referencing older stuff regarding his prior FISA warrants.

2/2/2018 4:09:39 PM

For anyone looking to take a ride for a bit on the crazy train

https://twitter.com/repgosar/status/959508977095602176

2/2/2018 6:08:30 PM

Wow. I guess DDS means Dumb Dip Shit.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 6:22 PM. Reason : a]

2/2/2018 6:22:23 PM

where are you seeing 7 extensions to the FISA warrant? wouldn't that mean the warrant is still active?

2/2/2018 8:08:50 PM

since this memo didn't mention McCabe in much detail, I'm assuming that the rumors the Inspector General is investigating McCabe for altering 302s may have some merit to it.

2/2/2018 10:00:44 PM

Any links on the 302 thing?

I'm pretty sure he was always going to do terminal leave. As for the 302 thing that I've seen regarding Hannity, it keeps referencing back to the four page memo so I'm going to call BS on this considering it doesn't once mention anything related to that.

[Edited on February 2, 2018 at 11:00 PM. Reason : a]

2/2/2018 10:43:45 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-dept-told-court-of-sources-political-bias-in-request-to-wiretap-ex-trump-campaign-aide-officials-say/2018/02/02/caecfa86-0852-11e8-8777-2a059f168dd2_story.html?utm_term=.08932882b00c

Quote :

"The court that approved surveillance of a former campaign adviser to President Trump was aware that some of the information underpinning the warrant request was paid for by a political entity, although the application did not specifically name the Democratic National Committee or the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the matter. A now-declassified Republican memo alleged that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court was duped into approving the wiretap request by a politicized FBI and Justice Department. The memo was written by House Intelligence Committee Republicans and alleged a “troubling breakdown of legal processes” flowing from the government’s wiretapping of former Trump aide Carter Page. But its central allegation — that the government failed to disclose a source’s political bias — is baseless, the officials said."

Quote :

"The Justice Department made “ample disclosure of relevant, material facts” to the court that revealed “the research was being paid for by a political entity,” said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity."

Quote :

"If the FISA application to surveil Page referred to funding by political opponents “or included similar references that revealed a motivation against then-candidate Trump, even if they did not name the DNC .?.?. then the FISA applications would be fine,” said David Kris, a FISA expert who led the Justice Department’s National Security Division from 2009 to 2011."

Quote :

"The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.), said, “Only very select parts of what Christopher Steele reported related to Carter Page were included within the application, and some of those things were already subject to corroboration.” A potentially damaging allegation is that the FISA application, which was based in part on information from Steele about Page’s July 2016 trip to Moscow, also cited a September 2016 Yahoo News article by reporter Michael Isikoff. “This article,” the memo states, “is derived from information leaked by Steele himself to Yahoo News.” In other words, the memo alleges the Yahoo News article amounted to redundant information. Schiff said the article was not included in the application to corroborate Steele. That was one of the memo’s “serious mischaracterizations” about the FISA application."

2/3/2018 12:51:45 AM

Quote :

""I don't believe somebody like Mr. Page should be a target of the FBI," Nunes says"

What in the actual fuck? Imagine dying on the Carter Page hill. There almost certainly cases of FISA wrongdoing and over-application but if there is one guy almost certainly justifiably surveilled it’s Carter fucking Page. That’s how you know this is solely a desperate act to protect Trump. If they were acting in good faith it certainly wouldn’t be over a “coffee boy who had a minimal role in the campaign who left before October.”

2/3/2018 7:27:30 AM

Did anyone catch that video of the Chris Hayes interview of Carter Page from October 2017?

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/maddow-carter-page-knew-nunes-memo-months-advance-nutty-msnbc-interview-last-year/

Looks like the video will eventually be at that link. I saw it here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/959543653000675335

Skip to the 7 min mark.

It's Carter Page, grinning like an idiot, saying "I think when the truth comes out, when Speaker Raul Ryan says the FISA warrant or the details about the dodgy dossier and what happened and all the documents surround that is gonna be released, that’s what I’m excited about,” Page said in the October 30 interview. “I think the truth will set a lot of people free.”

4 months ago. Total coincidence or has this memo been in the works for that long?

[Edited on February 3, 2018 at 8:07 AM. Reason : ^i continue to think someone WAY more important got caught on Page's monitoring]

2/3/2018 8:07:00 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/29/politics/chris-wray-mccabe-fbi/index.html

between this, the Hannity report, and other less than stellar news sources, it seems plausible.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/wow-ig-horowitz-probing-reports-mccabe-demanded-fbi-agents-change-interview-summaries-fired-next-days/

2/3/2018 9:48:58 AM

the upcoming report is about the clinton email investigation, so not very helpful for your anti-trump narrative

2/3/2018 10:25:58 AM

Kinda crazy Congress is leaking classsifed info to protect the president from a criminal investigation

I can’t tell what’s normal anymore

2/3/2018 11:30:05 AM

I guess technically it's not a leak (if you're referring to the memo) since they went through a process to do it. What truly amazes me is that they selectively chose one aspect of a plethora of intelligence to leak knowing that the rest of the supporting and exhonorating information couldn't be released.

THAT is a new low.

2/3/2018 12:38:39 PM

i think staking all this on carter page is the craziest part

2/3/2018 12:58:09 PM

He may be the most dangerous link to them. He's publicly gone back and forth to Russia. He's previously been under investigation for espionage against the United States and for Russia.

If they can prove out Rosneft's sale, for sure (the 19.5% thing).

It's also the only publicly known FISA situation. If you discredit that, you potentially discredit the "fruit of the poisonous tree" results. You also potentially sway public opinion, which is quite important given that Congress is ultimately going to have to vote to impeach (House) and then convict (Senate). You sway the preponderance of public opinion and Congressmen are going to go with that. I have zero confidence they'll stand up for what's right if it means potentially angering the public.

It's a dangerous gamble but from Trump's perspective, it's the only move he can make without completely destroying himself. At most I suspect it's a delay tactic. Perhaps it's a desperate, near last resort (last resort being fire Mueller) from someone who knows the walls are closing it.

Or, perhaps he's simply an insanely paranoid guy who truly believes the government is out to get him and doesn't now what to do. For now I find this the least likely situation since all publicly known commentary strongly suggests he's complicit. But, it's still a possibility at this time.

Additional context on Page: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/memo-points-to-fbis-ongoing-interest-in-trump-adviser-carter-page/2018/02/02/89bfdee2-077c-11e8-8777-2a059f168dd2_story.html?utm_term=.5ab163eef797

Let me know if it's pay walled for everyone and I'll post bits.

[Edited on February 3, 2018 at 3:24 PM. Reason : a]

2/3/2018 3:12:07 PM

^under investigation that he cooperated with and they found nothing. are you hanging your hat on FBI incompetence in that case while banking on them finding an insane conspiracy this time around? you seem to be heavily invested in the transfer of Rosfnet stocks being due to treason/Putin holding his word and not Putin fucking with Americans while simultaneously swindling more Russian assets for himself and his cronies.

daily reminder that the FBI used a yahoo news article for a FISA warrant. if they had anything else credible at all for evidence, that shit would not have been used. regardless of what you want to think of Trump, that should at a minimum let you know that the FISA process is a joke and the FBI takes advantage of that.

2/3/2018 7:56:06 PM

Quote :

"daily reminder that the FBI used a yahoo news article for a FISA warrant. if they had anything else credible at all for evidence, that shit would not have been used."

And your credibility is now less than zero. Enjoy the weekend.

2/3/2018 8:14:57 PM

^^ they should have just used the letter Carter Page wrote himself saying he was an informal Kremlin advisor.

It’s still bananas insane the GOP is choosing their adventure on Carter Page.

2/3/2018 10:19:19 PM

^http://time.com/5132126/carter-page-russia-2013-letter/

2/3/2018 11:01:24 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/

2/4/2018 12:29:06 AM

lol, the hill republicans are so eager to die on

Quote :

"Over the past half year, I have had the privilege to serve as an informal advisor to the staff of the Kremlin in preparation for their Presidency of the G-20 Summit next month, where energy issues will be a prominent point on the agenda"

2/4/2018 11:31:12 AM

Quote :

"Representative Devin Nunes, a man of tremendous courage and grit, may someday be recognized as a Great American Hero for what he has exposed and what he has had to endure!"

Lol, this was after he went on Fox and Friends claiming Papadopoulos never meant with the President despite their being photos of him meeting with the president.

2/5/2018 10:20:21 AM

It's honestly hilarious at this point.

2/5/2018 11:53:08 AM

Nothing new in this link, I just wanted to back up a statement I had made previously, possibly in another thread, regarding the fact that the journalism aspect of most of the outlets is actually sound. It's just the talking heads that people need to ignore, on all sides.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/05/trump-and-russia-investigation-what-to-know.html

2/5/2018 12:49:36 PM

I think the dueling memos are complete hackery and no positive or meaningful change would come about this way.

But with that being said, is there ANY way Trump allows Schiffs memo to be declassified? He has no shame, is dumb so he believes Nunes and wants to force Schiff to read it in to the record and then will blame him for harming NatSec. Can see this coming from a mile away..

2/5/2018 2:10:19 PM

I kind of think he will.

2/5/2018 2:21:56 PM

Did y'all know Page was an FBI informant before he joined the Trump campaign? Fun speculation ahead:

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/is-carter-page-an-fbi-informant-who-wormed-into-trumps-campaign/

2/5/2018 7:45:15 PM

Looks like a credible source

2/5/2018 8:16:07 PM

JPR is just a radical left forum. Everything in that post is sourced.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politics/carter-page-russian-official/

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/05/08/carterpage.pdf

[Edited on February 5, 2018 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/5/2018 8:25:15 PM

democrats shouldn't have voted to release their memo, they already won that narrative and now they run the risk of losing

2/5/2018 9:16:46 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2018/02/05/daily-202-more-memos-are-coming-here-are-six-questions-about-phase-two-of-the-nunes-investigation/5a77cb0930fb041c3c7d762c/?utm_term=.334eb9165d51

The answer to #3 here, regarding Page.

3. Will Republicans continue rallying to the defense of Carter Page?

It’s baffling that the former Trump adviser has become a cause celebre on the right. Beyond the dossier, the feds seem to have had a litany of legitimate reasons to surveil him.

“Far from demonstrating that the FBI was out to get Trump, the memo suggests that the Trump campaign could have had an active Russian spy working as a foreign policy adviser,” writes former FBI special agent Asha Rangappa, now a senior lecturer at Yale.

“I used to obtain Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrants, so I’m familiar with the procedures Nunes implies the FBI abused in this case,” she explains. “To initiate surveillance on [Page] … the government would have had to demonstrate that Page was ‘knowingly engaging in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of’ Russia. It takes months and even years to obtain enough relevant evidence for a FISA application, which can include details from physical surveillance, phone and financial records, items recovered from the target’s trash and intelligence obtained from other sources. So the FISA application would probably have outlined the bureau’s efforts going all the way back to 2013, when Page was approached by the FBI, which warned him, based on recordings of Russian intelligence officers, that he was being targeted for recruitment as a Russian spy.

“Nunes’s memo also discloses that the government obtained three renewals of the FISA warrant, which occurred every 90 days after the initial authorization. In order for a judge to allow the surveillance to continue, the government has to demonstrate that the intercepted communications are, in fact, providing foreign intelligence,” she continues. “Even worse for Nunes, he managed to showcase concrete proof that the FBI was looking into Trump’s Russian connections before they heard from [Christopher] Steele. The memo confirms that Australian intelligence was aware of possible ties between George Papadopoulos, another Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, and Russian intelligence, and that the Australians were alarmed enough to alert the FBI, which opened an investigation in July 2016.”

Moreover, the surveillance on Page was not authorized until October 2016 — a month after he left the Trump campaign.

Time reported this weekend that Page bragged in a 2013 letter to a publisher that he was an adviser to the Kremlin. Page, who denies wrongdoing and has not been charged with a crime, told the magazine that he was offering the Russians “really plain-vanilla stuff.” [/quote]

[Edited on February 6, 2018 at 1:31 AM. Reason : a]

2/6/2018 1:28:59 AM