http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/10/snowden-offers-to-fix-health-insurance-marketplace.html

10/22/2013 4:59:22 PM

^ lol what a troll

10/22/2013 5:00:38 PM

there is another law suit that looks promising...

Quote :

"Obamacare” looks increasingly inevitable, but one lawsuit making its way through the court system could pull the plug on the sweeping federal health care law. A challenge filed by the Pacific Legal Foundation contends that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional because the bill originated in the Senate, not the House. Under the Origination Clause of the Constitution, all bills raising revenue must begin in the House. The Supreme Court upheld most provisions of the act in June, but Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. took pains in the majority opinion to define Obamacare as a federal tax, not a mandate. The court there quite explicitly says, ‘This is not a law passed under the Commerce Clause; this is just a tax,’ "

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/31/obamacare-lawsuit-over-health-care-tax-will-test-c/?page=all

[Edited on October 22, 2013 at 5:17 PM. Reason : f]

10/22/2013 5:16:13 PM

Quote :

"you people trust the government with your health insurance when they can't get a simple website working (in 2013?!)?? "

The government hired you to teach our kids, what does THAT say about them...?

10/22/2013 5:17:09 PM

Quote :

"you people trust the government with your health insurance when they can't get a simple website working (in 2013?!)??"

no, none of us are getting government health insurance

(well some people here might, from Tricare, but that has nothing to do with this)

10/22/2013 5:26:37 PM

none of us are getting healthcare through healthcare.gov either

10/22/2013 5:44:54 PM

That's because the demographic of TWW isn't likely to be uninsured generally.

Practically all jobs that use a college education offer health coverage already. Healthexchange.gov is for poor people, dumb people, self employed, and people who are thinking about changing jobs and careers and are worried about losing their health coverage (thanks to Obama you don't have to worry anymore, you can always get coverage).

10/22/2013 7:26:53 PM

^great! now people can quit their job so they can get a subsidy and have plenty of money left over for bud light and cigarettes.

10/22/2013 7:57:50 PM

Aside from a pre-existing condition and costs, what was preventing people from getting health insurance in the first place? This exchange makes it seem like this is the first time in American history that people who don't have jobs can get insurance.

What stopped anybody from calling up BCBSNC and buying a plan?

10/22/2013 8:12:13 PM

preexisting conditions and cost most likely.

[Edited on October 22, 2013 at 8:15 PM. Reason : durr didnt see your first sentence ]

10/22/2013 8:14:59 PM

Quote :

"That's because the demographic of TWW isn't likely to be uninsured generally. "

No, it's because the website is broken

10/22/2013 8:15:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvD0BmgNPV4

10/22/2013 8:25:16 PM

Quote :

"Aside from a pre-existing condition and costs the two major reasons why people are uninsured, what was preventing people from getting health insurance in the first place?"

10/22/2013 8:27:25 PM

^^ LOL, wasn't this fucker running from the law because he was wanted for murder or something?

10/22/2013 11:14:13 PM

as long as you purchase insurance during the open enrollment period (by March 31) you will not have an IRS penalty.

thanks Obama

10/23/2013 8:03:19 PM

Quote :

"^great! now people can quit their job so they can get a subsidy and have plenty of money left over for bud light and cigarettes."

You think people are going to quit their job so that the government will pay for part of their health insurance plan? And these people with no job are going to use the money they supposedly save by not having a job to buy Bud Light and cigarettes?

SRSLY?

[Edited on October 23, 2013 at 11:03 PM. Reason : l]

10/23/2013 11:02:31 PM

I'm still pissed my premiums are going up over 300% next year, to cover the costs of other peoples' insurance

like i got cash fallin out of my ass or something

10/23/2013 11:03:44 PM

Quote :

"beatsunc: ^great! now people can quit their job so they can get a subsidy and have plenty of money left over for bud light and cigarettes."

You have to be earning between 100 and 400 percent of the federal poverty line (with no employer-provided insurance plan) in order to qualify for subsidies...so like $11,000/year for a single person. If you earn less than that (don't have a job), then you get nothing...unless you're a woman with children--then you get Medicaid.

10/23/2013 11:19:53 PM

so if you make $10,000 a year, you don't get free healthcare?

10/24/2013 12:26:51 AM

That is correct in the state of North Carolina. All those people are getting is either 1) an increase in their premiums if they manage to pay for their own insurance, or 2) an extra tax for not being able to pay for their own insurance (they will remain uninsured).

So someone earning $11,000/year qualifies for very generous subsidies. Someone earning $10,000/year qualifies for nothing (except the opportunity to pay more). If the $10,000/year guy manages to pay for his own insurance, he will kind of be subsidizing all the people earning more than him. If he can't afford his own insurance, he will definitely be subsidizing others with the extra tax he has to pay. It's hilarious.

[Edited on October 24, 2013 at 12:54 AM. Reason : Women with children and people with disabilities are still covered.]

10/24/2013 12:36:01 AM

Ignoring Obamacare/subsidies for a minute and just focusing on medicaid. For a single individual to get medicaid in Mississippi, don't they have to bring home LESS than ~$2600 a year? I think I heard that on NPR once and think I actually checked the accuracy later. And these fuckers didn't expand medicaid

10/24/2013 12:57:01 AM

AHA, I don't think Medicaid for single people is even really a thing. You practically have to be indigent with no earthly possessions and in desperate need of medical care. And, at that point, you can probably find some kind of disability to get you covered. If you wanted Medicaid, you'd like have to sell the car that you live in in order to qualify.

10/24/2013 1:10:56 AM

lol

poor people just get fucked every way possible, huh

[Edited on October 24, 2013 at 1:15 AM. Reason : ]

10/24/2013 1:15:20 AM

Quote :

"You have to be earning between 100 and 400 percent of the federal poverty line (with no employer-provided insurance plan) in order to qualify for subsidies...so like $11,000/year for a single person. If you earn less than that (don't have a job), then you get nothing...unless you're a woman with children--then you get Medicaid."

I'd call beatsunc a partisan hack, but his political stances aren't coherent enough to pin on one single political party. He's like the 5' 1" guy trying to run full-court pickup.

10/24/2013 1:18:11 AM

while beatsunc's last post in this thread seemed a bit ignorant, though his username is something we can all agree one, why does one need to look for political ideologies to argue or agree with something about the ACA? seems like a shitty policy...sure, "healthcare for all" sounds great, but it seems that the ACA is nothing like that

10/24/2013 1:33:07 AM

^

10/24/2013 1:33:36 AM

Man, I've now read way too much about this. I'm learning a lot about Medicaid and how hard it is, even for impoverished people with children, to qualify for it in some states.

I think the system is designed with the expectation that people will lie and cheat to get what they need. An honest person would never get any help under these rules.

10/24/2013 1:36:32 AM

Quote :

"$10,000/year guy...extra tax he has to pay"

His income would be so low that he'd be exempt from the mandate: https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/

10/24/2013 3:21:50 AM

Quote :

"why does one need to look for political ideologies to argue or agree with something about the ACA? seems like a shitty policy...sure, "healthcare for all" sounds great, but it seems that the ACA is nothing like that "

obama in 2007 said himself that solving the problem of people not having health insurance by mandating you purchase it makes about as much sense trying to cure homelessness by mandating people by housing.

the unaffordable care act is just a Trojan horse for single payer IMO

10/24/2013 3:33:14 AM

^^AHA, sweet. So they only have to pay more (in increased premiums) if they can actually afford insurance on $10k/year. Otherwise, they get to stay uninsured and avoid the penalty?

10/24/2013 6:11:40 AM

Quote :

"the unaffordable care act is just a Trojan horse for single payer IMO"

that would be awesome, but why do you think that?

ACA is the biggest obstacle to a single payer system, we basically have no chance at a single payer system now. exchanges and the individual mandate is the conservative "free market" solution, a single payer system would be a much more effective compromise.

10/24/2013 9:03:14 AM

Yes, and it seems like that's the reason why this is a partisan issue. Conservatives hamstrung reform efforts, and liberals compromised like they always do. And the result is that everything stays the same except some people will get more affordable insurance, and the healthcare industry will make even larger gobs of money.

The cost of healthcare will remain exorbitantly high, right? And emergency rooms will still be clogged with people who can't pay their bills?

10/24/2013 10:02:25 AM

^^

brian cates says it better than i could:

Quote :

" The goal of ObamaCare is a national transformation from a country where 85% had health insurance & of those 87% were happy with their plan, to one where almost no one will be happy with what they have been forced to take. After a few years of this new situation, Progressives figured people would be ready to hear their solution to the problem: a single payer system. Since American citizens were never going to voluntarily hand over their health insurance plans, a strategy was formed in which those plans would be stripped from them involuntarily. And that strategy was the Affordable Care Act and the multitude of lies that Democrats told about it. They repeatedly lied to the country about keeping plans and keeping doctors and premiums being lower, knowing full well the entire time that this would not be the case. But by the time the public figured this out, it would be too late. The law would have already passed and be in force, and millions of people will have had their insurance plans ripped from their fingers before they could even protest about it. Obama and the Democratic Party knew they had to deliberately mislead as many Americans as possible about what the ACA would do to their health insurance plans in order to pass the bill. President Obama asked the country to trust him when he repeatedly promised it the ACA wouldn't affect people who liked their current plans and wanted to keep them. He performed perhaps the biggest political dirty trick ever pulled on the American people and he did it openly and brazenly. He could do that with a clear conscience because like many Progressives, Obama believes in lying to people for their own good. "

10/24/2013 4:45:31 PM

so you think they are intentionally making it bad so people will realize that a single payer system is the solution? really? you think that is actually their intention, you think they actually want this to be bad?

i doubt that and haven't seen anything to support it.

[Edited on October 24, 2013 at 4:48 PM. Reason : more power to them though if it gets us a singly payer system]

10/24/2013 4:47:32 PM

^you have to believe they made premiums and deductibles go up intentionally or they or horribly incompetent. I dont think they are that dumb

there is also the added benefit of getting millions more voters on the govt dole. so they can say if you vote for the republicans they will take away your health care subsidies.

10/24/2013 4:59:18 PM

why do i "have to" believe that they made premiums go up intentionally

realize that this is a lot different than saying that their policy directly caused them to go up. what you are claiming is not just that they caused premiums to go up, but that they intentionally wanted premiums to go up to hurt people.

its very different, and i don't see any reason why we should make that conclusion

10/24/2013 5:18:43 PM

Quote :

"so you think they are intentionally making it bad"

Haven't you heard? All the developers were republicans.

10/24/2013 5:56:11 PM

http://www.wral.com/now-it-s-democrats-who-want-obamacare-delayed/13033915/

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10/24/2013 6:03:11 PM

the deadline was already moved

10/24/2013 6:08:27 PM

now the democrats want to postpone it for a year. (sound familiar?)

specifically it's the democrats who are up for reelection... they realize how obamacare is taking a huge shit on their constituents and want their votes.

10/24/2013 6:10:54 PM

Wait the penalty is only $95?

10/24/2013 6:19:32 PM

^^

LOL

They don't want to delay "it". they want to delay enforcement of the individual mandate (you still have to GET the insurance, you just won't pay anything if you don't this year). This is what was done for the employer mandate.

10/24/2013 6:21:38 PM

lalwz at smath's political analysis

10/24/2013 6:26:45 PM

Obama's statement at SEIU's New Leadership Health Care Forum on March 24, 2007 --

Quote :

"As I indicated before, I think that we're going to have to have some system where people can buy into a larger pool. Right now their pool typically is the employer, but there are other ways of doing it. I would like to -- I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can go through their employer to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort. But I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out where we've got a much more portable system. Employers still have the option of providing coverage, but many people may find that they get better coverage, or at least coverage that gives them more for health care dollars than they spend outside of their employer. And I think we've got to facilitate that and let individuals make that choice to transition out of employer coverage. "

video the quote came from

http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/healthforum/7_obama.mp4

10/24/2013 6:29:12 PM

wow so he wants the workers of the future to no longer hang on to a generally shitty job just because it happens to offer health insurance, because there would be viable options in the non-group market

omg the horror, OBAMMUNISM is upon us!!1!

10/24/2013 6:54:50 PM

Quote :

"^^ LOL They don't want to delay "it". they want to delay enforcement of the individual mandate (you still have to GET the insurance, you just won't pay anything if you don't this year). This is what was done for the employer mandate. "

the individual mandate is the blood and guts of the entire program. if they are delaying the penalty then they are effectively delaying the mandate.

10/24/2013 6:56:57 PM

Quote :

"video the quote came from"

is this in reference to my question to you? because it doesn't respond to it.

[Edited on October 24, 2013 at 6:57 PM. Reason : ^the exchange is the blood and guts]

10/24/2013 6:57:10 PM

i disagree. the exchange is a tool, but without a mandate the whole thing falls apart.

10/24/2013 6:59:00 PM

the mandate is how you make it viable, the exchange is what ACA is about

(and medicaid expansion is also how you were supposed to make it viable)

10/24/2013 7:15:18 PM

there's a lot of doom and gloom going on right now, but one of the things which should be obvious is that when people WANT something, they are much more likely to predict that thing happening, or believe it will. it's a form of confirmation bias.

weathermen and meteorologists don't predict the weather by using their gut, they use models of past activity and simple statistics. it's just my opinion, but i would think the best way to understand what's going to happen would be to look at past situations in states or other countries or our own country when we have implemented similar plans.

10/24/2013 7:40:05 PM