Quote :

"LOL, I knew someone was going to say something to this effect. Some of you people are more delusional than the folks blindly supporting creationism. We can actually apply theories about gravity to produce the results we want (like gravity assists [see sling-shotting around the moon])."

i believe that these results are not the result of some liberal "science based" force you call "gravity" but by invisible undetectable fairies that really like smaller things to move closer to bigger things

prove me wrong.

11/20/2009 12:32:41 AM

Obviously this argument will never be settled because you basically have three groups of people all playing by different rules. Group 1 says that there is absolutely no way God (the one spoken of in the Bible) exists and thus everyone who thinks differently is an idiot. Group 2 says that God has to exist and therefore any theory that remotely refutes anything in the Bible must be wrong. Group 3 says that there is not sufficient evidence to support either claim as being 100% right or wrong, so it is possible that either side is right, or that neither is right and something totally different created the earth. IMO anyone who doesn't fall in Group 3 is an idiot, but that is just my opinion. You can't debate or argue with people like God because he is too arrogant to think that there is even a possibility he is wrong. He clearly is a horrible debater, and unfortunately people like him are often fail to realize that they are simply the mirror image of the zealot Christians they love to hate on.

11/20/2009 12:49:23 AM

false fucking equivalency

11/20/2009 1:24:30 AM

Quote :

"LOL, I knew someone was going to say something to this effect. Some of you people are more delusional than the folks blindly supporting creationism. We can actually apply theories about gravity to produce the results we want (like gravity assists [see sling-shotting around the moon]). When was the last time someone got a big lump of matter to spontaneously explode outward (and I'm talking about without some outside force...so don't come back to me with these experiments where they launch atoms at each other or some such thing)."

jesus christ there is so much retarded in this thread

11/20/2009 1:49:07 AM

Show me that smile again. (Show me that smile)
Don't waste another minute on your cryin.
We're nowhere near the end (nowhere near)
The best is ready to begin.

Oooohhh. As long as we got each other
We got the world spinnin right in our hands.
Baby you and me, we gotta be
The luckiest dreamers who never quit dreamin.

As long as we keep on givin
We can take anything that comes our way
Baby, rain or shine, all the time
We got each other Sharin the laughter and love.

11/20/2009 2:12:27 AM

Quote :

"jesus christ there is so much retarded in this thread"

Are you also arguing that the big bang theory is just as substantial as the theory of gravity?

11/20/2009 8:14:36 AM

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/expedition-week/4290/Overview

i want to watch this sooooo bad.
but alas, i dont have cable

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 8:20 AM. Reason : jiokjl]

11/20/2009 8:20:15 AM

Quote :

"You can't debate or argue with people like God because he is too arrogant to think that there is even a possibility he is wrong."

I don't think you understand the way science works.

I'll gladly consider an opposing opinion. Just make sure to bring me it in a peer-reviewed journal or a research paper, not on Sunday morning or from a guy holding a sign shouting at me from the street.

11/20/2009 8:23:37 AM

Yeah you're right, the are a lot of things about science I don't understand... string theory, quantum mechanics..... hell I finished with a 3.9 at NCSU in Mech Eng, but it's safe to say there are certain aspects of mechanical engineering that I just "didn't get" too. I think it's pretty safe to say that nobody out there totally "gets" science.

On the other hand, I don't understand a lot of things that are no considered "scientific." I don't understand all the weird phenomena out there related to ghosts and spirits, mind reading, aliens, moving shit with your mind..... I could go on forever but the point is made.

And so, understanding that I don't totally understand just about anything in the world, I can safely say that I can rule out no theories as being possible. I don't necessarily believe in the God that many Americans think created the world, but it certainly is a possibility. On the other side of the coin, I don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory, but for me to totally rule it out as impossible would be ridiculous.

But you (and others like you) are so fucking arrogant that you think you are 100% right and that the billions of people who believe the earth got here some other way than the theory you prescribe to cannot, no way, no how, never ever ever ever possibly be right. Yes, I know you graduated from high school and maybe even college, and by-God you've read books and been to classes and seen documentaries, and golly-gee-whiz you know it's just impossible for God to have created this world because you KNOW. You're just as fucking stupid as the people who show up in movies like Jesus Camp. Actually, you're worse because at least they are being so stubborn in the name of some kind of faith. You're just being stubborn because you're an arrogant idiot who somehow has convinced himself that he knows more than anyone else.

11/20/2009 8:50:52 AM

Quote :

"And so, understanding that I don't totally understand just about anything in the world, I can safely say that I can rule out no theories as being possible. I don't necessarily believe in the God that many Americans think created the world, but it certainly is a possibility. On the other side of the coin, I don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory, but for me to totally rule it out as impossible would be ridiculous."

At some point you have to make a decision. How do you feel about Faeries and Unicorns? Ghosts? Telepathy? Magic? Demons? Do you think these are possibilities too? If *anything* is possible, then why spend any time using your senses to figure it out. I mean, we could just be inside a giant test tube experiment run by gigantic aliens. That's a possibility, right?

That's why I put in with the scientists. They don't start out with a theory and then try to prove it. They build theories based on empirical observation. If that ain't the best way to try to explain the universe then we're kinda fucked since that's how we interact with the universe.

Scientists (and people who agree with their findings) don't think that they're 100% right. They know that they could be wrong and are ready to adjust their theories or scrap them entirely and start over if that's the case. God doesn't know that it is impossible for God to have created this world. It's just that there is absolutely no evidence to support that, and plenty of evidence to suggest that God is a creation of man and as plausible as unicorns etc.

Make no mistake, if God showed up and proved empirically that he was God, God would immediately get on his knees in worship. Me too.

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM. Reason : not bj. ]

11/20/2009 9:10:52 AM

Can you prove with 100% certainty that the pyramids pf Giza were not built by unicorns? If you cannot, then you ought to shut your arrogant mouth with all that "the pyramids were definitely not built by unicorns" bullshit you and your Ivy League elitist friends love to SHOVE DOWN MY THROAT.

11/20/2009 9:11:43 AM

Quote :

"I don't understand all the weird phenomena out there related to ghosts and spirits, mind reading, aliens, moving shit with your mind..... I could go on forever but the point is made."

What "phenomena" are you referring to? Ghost Hunters? You know that show is faked, right? Do you know what cold-reading is? Derren Brown?

How about James Randi's $1,000,000 challenge, where all someone has to do is prove they can mind-read, or move objects, or be a psychic medium, and which has never been fulfilled in the past decade? It's free money! Surely if there is a psychic out there, why would they turn down a cool million?

Quote :

"But you (and others like you) are so fucking arrogant that you think you are 100% right and that the billions of people who believe the earth got here some other way than the theory you prescribe to cannot, no way, no how, never ever ever ever possibly be right."

Because I am right. Do you believe that the sun is a sentient being, a god? Do you know that there are people out there who do? Do you believe they're wrong? Does that make you "so fucking arrogant" because you know that the sun is just a star?

Quote :

"Yes, I know you graduated from high school and maybe even college, and by-God you've read books and been to classes and seen documentaries, and golly-gee-whiz you know it's just impossible for God to have created this world because you KNOW."

I only "know" because there has never been any evidence to contradict my position in the entirety of written history. Why should I think otherwise? Bring me something and I'll reconsider.

Quote :

"You're just as fucking stupid as the people who show up in movies like Jesus Camp. Actually, you're worse because at least they are being so stubborn in the name of some kind of faith. You're just being stubborn because you're an arrogant idiot who somehow has convinced himself that he knows more than anyone else."

Doubtful, and yes, I would wager I know more about the natural world than them. Those are the kinds of people who believe in witchcraft.


EDIT: I forgot to comment on "aliens" that you mentioned. I do believe that aliens exist, only because of the fact that it's extremely probably given the trillions and trillions of planets out there. The odds of none of them having any life is incredibly rare.

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 9:14 AM. Reason : ]

11/20/2009 9:13:07 AM

Quote :

"It's free money! Surely if there is a psychic out there, why would they turn down a cool million?"

Either that or the psychics are fucking assholes, since they could donate the money to charity.

11/20/2009 9:16:36 AM

Quote :

"Group 1 says that there is absolutely no way God (the one spoken of in the Bible) exists and thus everyone who thinks differently is an idiot."

Uh, there is no way that the God of the bible exists. It's logically impossible. The bible says God is both changing and unchanging. There's no way I can accept that. Of course, what you're really trying to convey here is that there are people the blindly "don't believe" in God and hate anyone that does. That's actually not the case. It's compartmentalism, on your part. You are probably reasonable about most other things, until something comes into conflict with your precious holy book (or whatever gave you the impression that "God did it"). Then, you have to find some way to reconcile your newly acquired knowledge with a bronze age relic.

Anyway, these threads are pointless. I've already learned that. If someone wants to believe in make believe stuff, go for it. People believe many stupid things. If people want to pretend that we got poofed into existence by God, fine. The people that do believe that will tell themselves whatever they have to in order to sustain the illusion in their mind.

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 9:47 AM. Reason : ]

11/20/2009 9:43:50 AM

Scientists are also sexy, let's not forget that.

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 10:01 AM. Reason : V]

11/20/2009 9:46:56 AM

What was the "mouse_hover" message for that?

11/20/2009 9:56:17 AM

The size of the universe in and of itself puts serious doubts on the existence of a God as portrayed in the Bible or any other religious manifesto. The Earth is a grain of sand on a beach and we are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. If you remember the church had a geocentric view of things and the likes of Copernicus and Kepler threw that out the window in terms of just our own solar system. Religion to me is not all that separate from ancient mythologies that seek to explain things we can not understand and perhaps fear (such as death). In fact Christianity has borrowed ideas from these mythologies from its inception (Hades or the underworld and Hell for example). I am not saying there couldn't be some higher order of being or another plane of existence but I just don't think it is defined by scripture or other holy books. There are just too many things beyond our comprehension and we are limited by our own egos and the view they provide. I feel religion exists as a result of that.

11/20/2009 10:42:09 AM

Even Dawkins admitted that there could be a higher intelligence that was involved in the creation of man. For all we know, aliens could have seeded our world with life billions of years ago. However, that higher, more advanced intelligence would have evolved normally just like us.

11/20/2009 10:43:44 AM

hell, even a "supernatural" god would do its thing within the confines of existence

ya feel me

you play video games... simulators if you will... where you control lots of elements

the sims, populous, black and white... whatever

you're their god

and you're not very special

11/20/2009 11:03:41 AM

we arent even a grain of sand in our own galaxy

in the universe we are less than an atom

Quote :

"The bible says God is both changing and unchanging. There's no way I can accept that."

But you're OK with electrons being in two places at 'once'?

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:14 AM. Reason : *]

11/20/2009 11:13:03 AM

if you're going to use size comparisons, why don't you use real ones...

go ahead and do some calculations

11/20/2009 11:14:05 AM

^ my point was saying we are a grain of sand in the universe is over-stating our significance

11/20/2009 11:16:08 AM

yeah, but you're just saying things that mean nothing

ok

or

all of you are just saying things that mean nothing

...

and why give me the rolly eyes

why not MAN UP and do the calculation

it's really easy, fun, and then you can say something

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:18 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2009 11:16:41 AM

this coming from the genius that posted this gem?

Quote :

"hell, even a "supernatural" god would do its thing within the confines of existence ya feel me you play video games... simulators if you will... where you control lots of elements the sims, populous, black and white... whatever you're their god and you're not very special"

give me a break

11/20/2009 11:17:54 AM

no

I won't give you a break you lazy shit

and what I posted was fine... and vague and really kind of philosophical

but you were really making a size comparison

and didn't know what you were talking about

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:20 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2009 11:19:00 AM

Im not going to educate your dumbass on the scale of the universe. You grasping simple concepts is not my responsibility.

11/20/2009 11:20:53 AM

shut the fuck up

i've done those calcs... for fun

you could not "educate" me on anything

I don't know what your position is in this thread... and honestly I could care less, because you're useless.

...

and honestly, insulting me because you're too lazy to do something worthwhile instead of just saying nothing... when it's been pointed out that you could do something really easy to understand the situation much much better, that's mind numbing

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2009 11:22:04 AM

hey

maybe talk more about how you're the god of your video game!!

that will be sure to add usefulness!

Im not going to spell out calculations for dimwits like you who dont grasp that the earth is much smaller than a grain of sand when compared to the size of the universe.

youre the one that started with the insults chief. Your whinny complaints dont even make sense.

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:26 AM. Reason : *]

11/20/2009 11:25:30 AM

Quote :

"But you're OK with electrons being in two places at 'once'?"

Why shouldn't I be?

^You're taking his simple metaphor and acting like he was trying to make some definitive scientific point.

We're rats on a sinking ship.

BUT WE'RE NOT REALLY RATS. THEREFORE YOU'RE WRONG. YOU MADE A WRONG STATEMENT AND I'M NULLIFYING EVERYTHING YOU SAY FROM NOW ON YOU IDIOT. I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN HOW WE'RE NOT RATS TO YOU ARRGH.

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:27 AM. Reason : fuck]

11/20/2009 11:26:03 AM

^^

yeah, that's what I thought... just repeat the same crap over and over... defensive and dumb

I didn't insult you. You felt insulted.

but you should reflect on it

because this isn't on me

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:27 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2009 11:26:19 AM

Quote :

"Why shouldn't I be?"

You should absolutely be. We know this to occur.

I just think it is odd if someone is ok with that, which defies conventional 'logic' but then can go and make an absolute statment that they cannot accept that a being can be changing and unchanging.

Yeah we know one occurs for sure and do not know the other occurs. At best I would hope someone would take the wait and see position instead of the 'will not accept it' position.

11/20/2009 11:31:52 AM

how can we care about anything you have to say?

11/20/2009 11:32:47 AM

Quote :

"You're taking his simple metaphor and acting like he was trying to make some definitive scientific point."

No, I knew he wasn't trying to be scientifically accurate.

The grain of sand is a very common metaphor. I was just trying to highlight that even it vastly overstates our significance.

its not a hard concept

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:35 AM. Reason : *]

11/20/2009 11:34:00 AM

but you could of done much much better

and decided to take the route of a hurt lazy child

...

do you see that

OH I DON'T WANT TO THINK, I DON'T WANT TO DO WORK

SHUT UP MEAN PERSON

STUPID MEAN PERSON

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2009 11:35:51 AM

Quote :

"But you're OK with electrons being in two places at 'once'?""

I'm not really a pro when it comes to physics or any hard sciences, so I'm not sure what this refers to. It doesn't seem to be a logical contradiction in the same way that something being both changing and unchanging seems to be. Either something does change, or something never changes.

11/20/2009 11:36:53 AM

trust me

he doesn't understand it either

11/20/2009 11:38:35 AM

except my first response to your drivel was explicitly stating my entire point. Yet you continued to complain.

11/20/2009 11:38:57 AM

you're not even listening

you could be done with the calculations ages ago

and contributed

11/20/2009 11:39:59 AM

I mean, the double-slit experiment could be considered something that defies conventional logic.

11/20/2009 11:40:44 AM

here

I'll even give you step one

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1+light+year+in+meters

11/20/2009 11:41:24 AM

you are STILL crying?

11/20/2009 11:46:45 AM

are you still being stupid and obstinate?

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 11:49 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2009 11:49:28 AM

Quote :

"I'm not really a pro when it comes to physics or any hard sciences, so I'm not sure what this refers to. It doesn't seem to be a logical contradiction in the same way that something being both changing and unchanging seems to be. Either something does change, or something never changes."

Essentially at the quantum level particles can occupy an infinite number of locations simultaneously.

11/20/2009 11:49:57 AM

again

Quote :

"how can we care about anything you have to say?"

11/20/2009 11:50:27 AM

at least quagmire02 stopped spraying inane and borderline retarded shit around in this thread

11/20/2009 11:50:34 AM

Christ on a cracker.

The Earth has a volume of 1,083,207,317,374 km³.

Concerning the universe, let's just work with the current observable matter and ignore the fact that it's probably infinite. We'll call it 89000000000 ly across or 842005012059691200000000 km. This would give it a volume of 1.5628333009331322877721013051277e+71 km³.

Which means you could fit 1.44278318274463001751086738512e+59 Earths in the volume of the observable universe.

How many grains of sand are in a beach?
http://www.tufts.edu/as/physics/courses/physics5/estim_97.html gives an estimate of
4e+21 for the number of grains of sand on every beach on the planet.

So, given their approximation, there is an order of magnitude 37 difference greater in favor of the number of Earth's in the Universe verses the number of grains of sand on all of the beaches on Earth.

"We are but a grain of sand" is an extreme understatement. And that's if "we" is referring to the entire fucking Earth, which is pretty big by my scale of things. AND the "grain of sand" is not just a grain vs a sandbox, but every beach in the world.

So, can nastoute STFU now?

[Edited on November 20, 2009 at 12:21 PM. Reason : fix'd]

11/20/2009 12:14:17 PM

Are we really analyzing his grain of sand metaphor or

11/20/2009 1:02:26 PM

LOL it was only a metaphor as stated above. I think most got the point of what I was trying to say.

11/20/2009 1:12:06 PM

Yeah I know, but it was fun to figure. Of course it's a metaphor. I just wanted nastoute to stfu.

11/20/2009 1:13:18 PM

how are you going to tell me to STFU and in the process defend that lazy piece of shit?

who wasn't able to do the tiniest bit of what you just did?

whatever, take whatever fucked up side you want

11/20/2009 1:35:52 PM