we "got involved" in the middle east therefore we have terrorist attacks coming our way, its only fair
8/10/2006 5:39:13 PM
8/10/2006 5:40:37 PM
hey OEPQuote :"im also interested as to why islamo-lunatics would attack so many other countries when they all mind thier own business??"also...Quote :"I still want to know why the run of the mill westerner isn't innocent and if he dies in a terrorist attack its okay."
8/10/2006 5:41:01 PM
the issues not that we became involved in the middle East, the problem is we supported corrupt regimes (Shah, Hussein) and stopped by an impartial arbitrator and started to favor Israel.
8/10/2006 5:42:51 PM
well we cant change what we did in the past so why do we keep complaining about it
8/10/2006 5:43:52 PM
Because we can change what we do in the future.
8/10/2006 5:49:47 PM
if we pullout of there completely and isolate israel, they will still hate usor israel would destroy the place
8/10/2006 5:53:54 PM
i do believe the next step is to not allow humans on the planes
8/10/2006 5:57:51 PM
8/10/2006 6:05:31 PM
It's kinda tough to offer other solutions when the legislative doorways through which they'd have to pass are slammed shut.
8/10/2006 6:22:28 PM
And why are they slammed shut? That's right, because the people spoke on election day and told the pussy ass liberal french-looking democrats to keep their goddamned cowardly ass fingers out of our national security.
8/10/2006 7:33:56 PM
Great. I'm happy to hear that you understand the situation so thoroughly, you fucking ignorant prick.Now the Soap Box won't have to listen to you bitch about liberals bitching about foreign policy ever, ever again. Because when the legislative means through which they could affect policy are shut, and speech is still free, there isn't much left for liberals to do than bitch.Since you're obviously so intelligent to have finally understood, I'll trust that you'll not lose an IQ point or two and forget why so many liberals bitch so often about foreign policy...---
8/10/2006 7:46:00 PM
8/10/2006 7:52:22 PM
You forgot this one:...while GWB and Pals emulated the previously rejected idea of the DHS as proposed by a prominent Senate Democrat.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14290815/
8/10/2006 7:55:26 PM
8/10/2006 8:23:05 PM
hmm.well dammit. i like alcohol and fornicatin.i guess were gonna hafta go bomb some more brown people.
8/10/2006 8:26:32 PM
^^well now isnt that amazing...it seems as though he hates us because of how we are....who would have thought that??
8/10/2006 8:38:27 PM
You don't think we should change our ways Joe? I mean, they don't like it, shouldn't we give in?And hey, if 51% of the people don't want our policies the way they are, vote against the leaders.It isn't that fucking difficult.As to specific responses
8/10/2006 8:44:56 PM
The three reasons cited by bin Ladin in his Fatwah are:
8/10/2006 8:46:11 PM
8/10/2006 9:41:43 PM
^exactly...you people are trying to establish some moral equivalence between us and them. but you cant. because there is not one. these people are insane and want to kill us just because we are americans and not muslims. there is no moral equivalence. they are not sane people who just have a difference of opinion. they are insane religeous zealots who will would just as soon kill us as look at us.
8/10/2006 9:45:28 PM
Osama bin Laden is a new type of terrorist. He isn't really a revolutionary because he's not part of any revolution. His long term goal, if you can call it that, is to establish I guess what would be an Islamic empire ruled by Islamic law. I mean really, there's no sanity to apply to his or any other religous extremist. They believe in their faith absolutely, and faith exists only in an absense of logic. That being said, however, the way we've handled Iraq isn't helpful in reducing terrorism. Quite the contrary, the way we handled Iraq shows to even moderate muslims that America acts only in its own self interest and if that interest is contrary to that of another people, then we will bulldoze through them by God. This gives a sense of legitimacy to everything Bin Laden is saying in their eyes.I know TWW isn't capable of any form of empathy, but imagine if you're a lebanese youth who three weeks ago went to school and dreamed of being a soccer player, and just yesterday your entire family died to an Isreali bombing. How would you rationalize it? How would you view Isreal, or the United States?No, everything we've done in the middle east post 9/11 has weakened the United States militarily and polarized the nation politically and drove more middle eastern youth into the clutches of extremism. It couldn't have played out better for them.
8/10/2006 10:27:48 PM
that's the short-term outlook, to be sure.
8/10/2006 10:31:20 PM
8/10/2006 10:59:26 PM
It seems like brutality is the only language the durka durks understand, unfortunately.Seems like giving in at this point teaches them that brutality works in their favor, and brutality is the only way to defeat them. It's sad.
8/10/2006 11:01:21 PM
excuses excuses...there is no moral equivalency...periodthese people believe that by killing american infidels they will gain a free pass to heaven.....they are insane and they should die before they can kill us...what is so hard to get??
8/10/2006 11:44:37 PM
8/11/2006 12:12:19 AM
8/11/2006 12:26:17 AM
^and ^^ ...all a bunch of words...and look where all this talking has gotten usok so they hate us because we support israel...they want to see every Jew who lives in Israel dead....we are opposed to that...for that reason (plus the fact that we are american infidels)...they want us dead too...
8/11/2006 12:46:49 AM
what's it like living in a world where everything is black and white?
8/11/2006 12:49:40 AM
this foiled terrorist plot is propoganda intended to save face for the current administration
8/11/2006 4:53:14 AM
you moron
8/11/2006 7:04:38 AM
8/11/2006 7:17:58 AM
there is no arguining with neo-conservative douchbages like^.they refuse to support changing this countries policy and hegemony in the middle east, so as to insure more terrorist attacks. they want us to be attacked.they think admitting fault is insane, even thought any individual would be judged certifiable if they proclaimed that they were perfect.[Edited on August 11, 2006 at 7:28 AM. Reason : dfg]
8/11/2006 7:28:13 AM
Josh, go back in that thread about blaming the girl who got raped and talk about her personal responsibility for her attack.Oh, wait...that would require you to have a consistent position about these kinds of things.
8/11/2006 7:39:58 AM
Please run to the nearest dictionary.
8/11/2006 7:41:24 AM
well...i know...lets talk to this perfectly normal sane person and see if we can get him to explain to us exactly why he killed 3000 innocent people in our country. you got that? he killed 3000 innocent people. Now what do we call someone like jack the ripper or jeffrey dahlmer?? we call them crazy. we call them insane. they say they have thier "reasons" for killing a few people but ultimatly people go "man...that guy was sick in the head" ...people dont draw a moral equivalence between you and me and jeffrey dahlmer because there is no moral equivalencyso how in the world you liberals can try to justify what someone like OBL does is so far beyond me. to try to paint him as a normal person like you and me who just has a difference of opinion is disgusting. he killed 3000 innocent people, ok. he is insane. whatever his "reasons" are, are not relevant. he is an insane muslims fanatic who hates americans because they are infidels and infidels must die.[Edited on August 11, 2006 at 8:31 AM. Reason : asdf]
8/11/2006 8:08:37 AM
Please point out where:1) I've said that we should just go talk to the guy.2) I've tried to justify his actions.3) I've tried to draw moral equivalencies.4) I've tried to paint him as a normal person.5) I've said that OBL is not a monster.
8/11/2006 8:25:21 AM
geez..1) im not just talking to you...get past yourself2) im talking to any liberal who tries to justify in any way what OBL or any muslim terrorist does3) you did in fact suggest that there are "reasons" for what OBL did...my response to that is who cares what his "reasons" are...he is a crazy person and as such, his "reasons" do not matterback to the real topic...hey OEP"im also interested as to why islamo-lunatics would attack so many other countries when they all mind thier own business??"also..."I still want to know why the run of the mill westerner isn't innocent and if he dies in a terrorist attack its okay.[Edited on August 11, 2006 at 8:34 AM. Reason : asdf]
8/11/2006 8:31:11 AM
our involvement in Gulf War I was not OBL's "reason" for terrorism. It was his excuse.the reason for his terrorism is nutjobbery[Edited on August 11, 2006 at 8:39 AM. Reason : s]
8/11/2006 8:39:29 AM
Christ, A Tanzarian, could you get your head any further up Osama bin Laden's ass? You're practically defending him and his fatwah.[Edited on August 11, 2006 at 8:45 AM. Reason : .]
8/11/2006 8:44:46 AM
This thread illustrates the level of discourse that is typical, now, in this country. You can't even try to know your enemy without being called his best friend. While ignoramuses toss around epithets about knowing too much about bin laden, the people who are tasked to get intelligence on our enemies know better.Bin laden isn't crazy -- he's religious. He is like a Crusader.The evidence from both his words and his actions overwhelmingly shows that he is quite rational. Was OBL crazy when he fought the soviet invaders in afghanistan? It's on that same basis that he fights the US. Contrary to being called crazy, people who literally fight to defend their religious beliefs are admired. This is certainly what most muslims think, and this is much closer to the truth than the caricature of craziness.However, it does make childish people feel warm in their loins to pretend that they are fighting someone who is irrational. It could be one of many pretend victories these people have created in their heads.
8/11/2006 10:31:56 AM
i saw someone drive around with an OBL sticker that looks like the OBX stickerjust kidding
8/11/2006 10:33:07 AM
Difference: bin Laden fought the Soviet invaders. If bin Laden fights our military in Afghanistan, that's his right. It's a war. We invaded.But to call someone rational who orchestrates the mass murder of civillians, using civillian modes of transportations as missiles, pays families of suicide bombers who strap bombs to themselves and detonate them inside of pizza parlors and disco tecs... I'm sorry, but it is disgusting to even use the word rational with such irrational modes of warfare.You sir, are a fucking idiot.Every civilized nation tries to minimize collateral damage. But why doesn't bin laden? Because he not only hates our government, he hates our people and what we stand for. To him, the war is against not the American government, but the American people and the American way of life.[Edited on August 11, 2006 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]
8/11/2006 10:34:36 AM
^ i think there was a tape he released where he said that it wasn't the American people, but rather the American leaderhsip that he was angry atbut we were all too busy watching Bubba Sparx's Miss New Booty video
8/11/2006 10:39:05 AM
ok what he says and what he does are two different things. If you hate a government, but love the people, you don't kill the people (see both WTC disasters). That is ridiculous. 3,000 CIVILLIANS died. Not GI's or Marines.
8/11/2006 10:44:10 AM
he never said he loved the people...i'm not really arguing a point here, i'm just saying what he saidbtw, remember the bombing of Dresden?
8/11/2006 10:50:01 AM
Now you are arguing that terror is an irrational strategy against a much stronger opponent? Try reading a book about war tactics, some time. Also, try reading an american history book, too. Terror doesn't only need to be used against a much stronger enemy to be rational or effective.I don't know where you get that bin laden draws a distinction between our government and our people. In fact, he has said as much. Only dumb westerners think people can wage wars without the consent of the governed. OBL does not ( and neither should we. )[Edited on August 11, 2006 at 10:55 AM. Reason : 46sdf]
8/11/2006 10:53:17 AM
I'm arguing from the POV of us. Yes, it is disgusting, his tactics. To him, his tactics may be the only rational thing to do. HOWEVER, it is digusting for someone on our side to sympathize with the someone who has murdered > 3000 of our citizens and still plots to do so.
8/11/2006 10:56:20 AM
Did you seriously just rationalize 9/11 as a defense of his religion? I think he moved onto offense around the same time he started bombing Americans in non-muslim countries.You can't possibly call a massive attack, purposely orchestrated on civilians is defense.Our nukes are not defensive weapons.
8/11/2006 11:01:02 AM