http://homepages.at/slush/evol/youngeart.htm

Quote :

"THE SUN IS GETTING SMALLER. It burns off 5 million tons per second!! That means it used to be...BIGGER! 6,000 years ago (Creation) is no problem! But 70 million years ago?--that's when evolution claims that there were still dinosaurs and many other life-forms. But million of years ago, the Sun would have been too close to the Earth! No life, not even germs or viruses (forget dinosaurs!) would have been possible! Also, INCREASED GRAVITY would have meant that even the planets could not exist except in far, far more distant orbits.--More problems for Evolution. Because, as the Sun decreased to its present size, the planets would not have been pulled in to smaller orbits, but due to less gravity from the Sun, their speed would have spun them in ever-widening orbits until they drifted off into space. THE MOON IS MOVING FURTHER AWAY. (2-3 inches per year.) That means that it used to be...CLOSER! If the Moon is 6,000 years old there is no problem. But 70 million years ago? The Moon affects the tides, and the closer it gets, the greater the gravity! ( Gravity increases by the "inverse square"--meaning if you half the distance you quadruple the gravity.) Only a few million years ago the Moon would've been close enough to cause the tides to drown the entire surface of the Earth--twice a day! And, as everybody knows, you can only drown properly once a day! Ha! THE EARTH'S ROTATION IS SLOWING DOWN. You've heard of Leap Year but not everybody knows about Leap Second! (No joke!) Every 10 months the scientific community sets the clock back one second. (Atomic clocks are very picky!) The Earth is presently spinning at a speed of 1046.6 miles per hour at the equator. If the Earth is slowing down, that means it used to be going ...FASTER! If the Earth is 6,000 years old like the Bible says, that's no problem. But 4.5 billion years old? 70 million years ago the Earth would've been spinning too fast for life to exist! If we believe what Evolution teaches, that the Dinosaurs went extinct around 70 million years ago... they didn't die off by that imfamous stray aisteroid, they were thrown off into outer space! That's where they went, and there wouldn't be any skeletons either! Ha! THE EARTH'S MAGNETIC FIELD IS GETTING WEAKER. We're slowly losing it. Of course, if it is getting weaker, that means that it used to be ... STRONGER! 6,000 years ago is still no problem. But if you go back only a few million years, it would've been too strong for life to exist. MAGNETIC FIELD AND CARBON DATING By the way, the declining magnetic field is one of the things that explains why carbon dating doesn't work! Because more C-14 is being formed today than it was 6,000 years ago and thus more radiation gets through to us now than it did then because the magnetic field is weaker today than it was then. Thus, every old thing judged by today's amounts of radiation will appear even older than it actually is. One other thing that can block out C-14 is water, and if you read Genesis you find that there used to be a cloud-covering over the whole Earth ("the waters above the firmament [sky]") that came down during the Flood. After it came down, not only was there more C-14 but also more ultra-violet rays which cause us to age faster and thus die sooner! "

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 4:51 PM. Reason : 1]

10/26/2005 4:48:42 PM

Your buddy Jeffrey H. Schwartz seems to be a big fan of evolution, little fella.

Quote :

"There are two general theories to explain this absence of transitional creatures. One group has insisted that the intermediate examples will be found; the other has argued that geographic separation and environmental change drive rapid development of new species. Schwartz sides with the latter group and tackles two important unanswered questions in his “New Evolution” as to the underlying cause of novel characteristics that lead quickly to new species: “How will novelty look when it does appear?” and “how does more than one individual come to have a novel structure?” The answer, he writes, lies in a class of genes called homeobox, whose importance was not fully appreciated until recently. These genes regulate the development of creatures from embryo through adult."

You're really reaching at this point.

10/26/2005 4:52:59 PM

OMG!







Hey Mr. doofus. I know that he supports evolution. My point in referencing the article was that he admits there are no transitional fossils.

10/26/2005 4:57:50 PM

so youre saying that evolution is correct!

sweet, glad were done with that.

10/26/2005 4:59:18 PM

so youre saying that evolution is correct!

sweet, glad were done with that.

10/26/2005 5:01:01 PM

I've read that article before salisbury, it's basically like any other "evidence" agianst evolution.

It points at the disagreements between scientists on exactly how evolution works and discounts the whole theory based on those.

WE DONT KNOW EXACTLY HOW EVOLUTION WORKS SO OBVIOUSLY GOD MADE THE WORLD.

10/26/2005 5:17:46 PM

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"The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word."

Pet peeve. This article is right that entropy is not a measure of a system's disorder or complexity but this isn't usually stressed in this debate. In fact, in some systems entropy increases with the increasing spatial order of a system--even in closed systems. A self gravitating gas is one example and other there are many other examples in systems with long range or strong interactions between particles.

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 5:23 PM. Reason : x]

10/26/2005 5:23:25 PM

Quote :

"THE EARTH'S ROTATION IS SLOWING DOWN. You've heard of Leap Year but not everybody knows about Leap Second! (No joke!) Every 10 months the scientific community sets the clock back one second. (Atomic clocks are very picky!)"

So... what does setting your clock back have to do with the Earth slowing down?


Every time I hear a creationist start a sentence with the words "second law," I want to punch them in the face.

10/26/2005 10:50:53 PM

the earth is slowing down
i dont know what he's trying to make that mean though

10/26/2005 11:03:36 PM

but setting your clock back isn't a fucking argument for the earth slowing down

and if it isn't, then you can't use that to measure how fast it used to be going

the whole thing is retarded

10/26/2005 11:08:13 PM

only suckers believe in crap like evolution and gravity.

10/26/2005 11:10:13 PM

the thing that really gets me...

is that he can say that natural selection is magical,

but he doesn't think a fucking invisible, all powerful creator is magical

10/26/2005 11:13:21 PM

Belief in a Creator or Higher Power is ENTIRELY logical.

Simply put, any sane person can see that the physical universe, with all of its complexity, etc., was created or designed. It just didn't come into existence by accident.

Explaining in more detail, the physical universe is finite in time. In other words, it had a beginning. The universe could not have existed forever, or else there would now be infinite disorder. This means that there was a "force" or "entity" that caused the universe to come into existence. Furthermore, there must be something that has existed forever (ie, a "first cause").

Now, whatever "caused" (or "created") the physical universe to come into existence obviously has very high intelligence and great power. This highly intelligent and powerful "force" or "entity" that created the universe is what you might refer to as the "higher power", "Creator", "God", etc.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 8:25 AM. Reason : 1]

10/27/2005 8:25:11 AM

Quote :

"Simply put, any sane person can see that the physical universe, with all of its complexity, etc., was created or designed. It just didn't come into existence by accident. "

Then how did God come into existence? If you are going to say He has always existed somebody could say the universe has always existed going through Big Bang cycles.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 8:29 AM. Reason : ed]

10/27/2005 8:27:29 AM

EVOLUTION!

10/27/2005 8:28:49 AM

Quote :

"If you are going to say He has always existed somebody could say the universe has always existed going through Big Bang cycles. "

If the physical universe had existed forever, according to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the universe would now be in infinite disorder. This is not the case, so we know the universe has not existed forever.

10/27/2005 8:41:54 AM

Quote :

"Then how did God come into existence?"

10/27/2005 8:42:32 AM

SOMETHING has to have existed forever. Either the physical universe (which is not possible)...or the "first cause" that created the universe.

10/27/2005 8:50:16 AM

there is evidence for evolution, it makes logical fucking sense, you call it "magical"

I have never, in my entire life, seen a shred of scientific evidence(or even decent logical reasoning for that matter) for the existence of a God

Quote :

"If the physical universe had existed forever, according to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the universe would now be in infinite disorder. This is not the case, so we know the universe has not existed forever."

Go back to highschool.

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"SOMETHING has to have existed forever."

so... you still don't know shit about God, it's just magic...

10/27/2005 8:52:49 AM

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"SOMETHING has to have existed forever. Either the physical universe (which is not possible)...or the "first cause" that created the universe. "

maybe the "first cause" that created the universe doesnt exist anymore...and maybe it wasnt the first cause at all...maybe it was created by something else, that was created by something else, etc....with none of those things existing anymore. how do we know?

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 8:57 AM. Reason : f]

10/27/2005 8:56:52 AM

I just noticed....

Quote :

" If the physical universe had existed forever, according to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the universe would now be in infinite disorder. This is not the case, so we know the universe has not existed forever."

So if God has existed forever, why wouldn't he apply to the 2nd law of thermodynamics...

wait for it...

10/27/2005 9:03:55 AM

you know if you people keep using logic and reason, he's going to end up killing himself.

and we'd all cry ourselves to sleep.

10/27/2005 9:35:38 AM

God and evolution can coexist

10/27/2005 9:53:56 AM

Quote :

"So if God has existed forever, why wouldn't he apply to the 2nd law of thermodynamics... wait for it... "

The 2nd law of thermodynamics only applies to NATURAL phenomenon (ie, physical matter). The "first cause" or "Creator" of the physical universe is SEPERATE from the physical universe (hence, supernatural or "above and apart" from the natural).

10/27/2005 10:08:33 AM

Quote :

"maybe the "first cause" that created the universe doesnt exist anymore...and maybe it wasnt the first cause at all...maybe it was created by something else, that was created by something else, etc....with none of those things existing anymore. how do we know? "

The physical universe is finite in time. It cannot be infinite. BUT, something has to have existed forever. Something has to be INFINITE.

The "Creator" or "first cause" IS INFINITE. Something that is infinite just doesn't "go away." By defintion, it exists forever.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:13 AM. Reason : 1]

10/27/2005 10:11:40 AM

for some reason watching salisburyboy try to think about and comprehend the deepest questions of existence makes me smile

10/27/2005 10:14:29 AM

^^ first you ask everyone else to think about things that are out of nature, but then your restrict your own thoughts and assume that "something" has to be infinite. explain to me why "something" has to be infinite, if you're thinking supernaturally.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:17 AM. Reason : *]

10/27/2005 10:15:38 AM

Quote :

"Something has to be INFINITE."

why do you say that? maybe that something "was" infinite, but now its gone. why does that something have to still be around today?

Quote :

"The physical universe is finite in time."

thats fine, but maybe there was some other "physical entity" that was around before the physical universe. maybe that physical entity (which for all we know could be something beyond our current comprehension) created the physical universe we know today.

my point, is that we dont know....we are just going by the scientific observations that we can make. saying that "something has to be infinite" is merely just a baseless claim.

Quote :

"Something that is infinite just doesn't "go away." By defintion, it exists forever."

then maybe we are defining this "first cause" incorrectly. once again, you're just assuming that the way things work fit into your own definitions.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:25 AM. Reason : df]

10/27/2005 10:22:54 AM

are we REALLY having this argument AGAIN?

and besides

Quote :

"Simply put, any sane person can see that the physical universe, with all of its complexity, etc., was created or designed. It just didn't come into existence by accident."

there are at least 2 logical fallacies in that statement

1.) "any sane person" implies that anyone who agrees with you is insane, rendering the argument moot
2.) there is no proof that jsut because something is complex it has to be created. as for that argument, "The odds of winning the lottery are so incedibly astronomical, I could not have won this! Therefore, this winning lottery ticket that I'm holding in my hand is obviously not the winning ticket...."

10/27/2005 10:22:59 AM

Quote :

"sober46an3: why do you say that? maybe that something "was" infinite, but now its gone. why does that something have to still be around today?"

Now, do some of you reading this who believe in a Creator see the incompetence or mental disability we're dealing with?

Do you even know what "infinite" means? BY DEFINTION, IF SOMETHING IS INFINITE IN TIME, IT MEANS THAT IT EXISTS FOREVER. SOMETHING THAT IS "INFINITE" IN REGARDS TO TIME CAN NEVER "GO AWAY" OR STOP EXISTING.


[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:32 AM. Reason : 2]

10/27/2005 10:31:04 AM

Quote :

"then maybe we are defining this "first cause" incorrectly. once again, you're just assuming that the way things work fit into your own definitions. "

^thats why i put "was" in quotation marks....i think its pretty obvious what the definition of infinite is, and it furthur shows your own lack of confidence by resorting to name calling to gain support.



[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:35 AM. Reason : f]

10/27/2005 10:32:22 AM

Quote :

"saying that "something has to be infinite" is merely just a baseless claim."

No, it's not. The physical universe is finite in time. Something had to cause it to come into existence. Now, if that "cause" was finite in time itself, then there must have been a prior "cause" that caused it to come into existence. You can theorize that there were numerous finite causes, but ultimately you cannot have only finite causes. There must be something that has existed forever (is infinite) to have set the whole thing in motion.

That is why something has to have existed forever. Something must be infinite.

10/27/2005 10:38:10 AM

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"once again, you're just assuming that the way things work fit into your own definitions. "

you obviously wont waiver from your preset notions, so this is going nowhere.

10/27/2005 10:39:26 AM

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"SOMETHING THAT IS "INFINITE" IN REGARDS TO TIME CAN NEVER "GO AWAY" OR STOP EXISTING."

What about start?

10/27/2005 10:40:28 AM

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"you obviously wont waiver from your preset notions, so this is going nowhere"

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Are you "waivering from your preset notions"?

No, I'm not going to waver from the fact that there must be a Creator. Or the fact that the universe is finite in time. Those are facts. It is reality. To deny reality is insanity.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:43 AM. Reason : 1]

10/27/2005 10:41:12 AM

^ it means you're a douchenozzle. that's what it means.

Quote :

"No, I'm not going to waver from the fact that there must be a Creator. Or the fact that the universe if finite in time. Those are facts."

facts can be proven. prove both those statements. do it now.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:43 AM. Reason : *]

10/27/2005 10:42:31 AM

im willing to admit that we honestly don't know enough about the creation of the physical universe and what happened/existed before that to attempt to corner a solution into present day definitions.

Quote :

"there must be a Creator"

Quote :

"those are facts"

alright...im done here. have fun.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 10:44 AM. Reason : df]

10/27/2005 10:43:04 AM

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"The "first cause" or "Creator" of the physical universe is SEPERATE from the physical universe (hence, supernatural or "above and apart" from the natural)."

Then how can claim to use physical evidence to prove he exists?

10/27/2005 11:02:00 AM

Quote :

"The 2nd law of thermodynamics only applies to NATURAL phenomenon (ie, physical matter). The "first cause" or "Creator" of the physical universe is SEPERATE from the physical universe (hence, supernatural or "above and apart" from the natural)."

What you're saying is that anything you want to believe to be true can be explained with "supernatural" causes.

Let's look past your bullshit reasoning about the universe, since there's no way we can convince you that you have no idea what the fuck the 2nd law of theromdynamics is. You claim the universe was created by something supernatural... Ok, so what? Does that mean it has to be God? No. It could be fucking ANYTHING. Does that disprove evolution? No. Evolution still happened. Can't you see how stupid your argument is?

Most rational people aren't arrogant or naive enough to think they know everything about everything, especially the origin of the fucking universe.

10/27/2005 11:26:55 AM

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"Does that disprove evolution? No. Evolution still happened."

Evolution really happened? How do you know? I thought it was just a theory.

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"Most rational people aren't arrogant or naive enough to think they know everything about everything, especially the origin of the fucking universe."

But you apparantly know enough to know that evolution DEFINITELY "happened"?

By the way, when I say "evolution", I'm talking about MACRO-evolution (ie, the bogus idea...and THEORY let me remind you...that all life orignated from inorganic matter and somehow transformed into complex organic beings via the process of small mutations...such that "transitional organisms" resulted, etc.).

And usually, when people talk about this theory of macro-evolution, they assume or believe that no higher power was involved and that this process of "mutation" and forming complex organic beings from non-complex inorganic matter happned purely by chance due to nothing but passage of time.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:40 AM. Reason : 1]

10/27/2005 11:38:11 AM

I just want to point out that you people are arguing with SALISBURYBOY.

10/27/2005 11:40:13 AM

Tells you something doesn't it? I'm not really "crazy" as some here say. Most everyone knows that I'm not "crazy." If they REALLY believed it, why spend all the time carrying on discussions about issues such as this? They just say that in the very weak attempt to smear and discredit me.

10/27/2005 11:42:51 AM

YES BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING.

WE'RE ALL ZIONIST GOVERNMENT AGENTS SENT ON A MISSION TO "DISCREDIT" AND "SMEAR" YOU. THAT'S OUR SOLE JOB AND RESPONSIBILITY. YOU ARE THAT IMPORTANT A TARGET.

10/27/2005 11:44:45 AM

Quote :

"WE DONT KNOW EXACTLY HOW EVOLUTION WORKS SO OBVIOUSLY GOD MADE THE WORLD BUT ITS STILL OBVIOUSLY CORRECT."

We just dont know enough and probably cant percieve enough to ever know exactly how time or reality works. We are only aware of our 3 dimensions and our measured passage of Time, which in their own right could be fucking up our view of how everything works.

10/27/2005 11:50:38 AM

Personally, I don't believe in evolution, but it doesn't mean I'm right.

10/27/2005 11:51:01 AM

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"Most everyone knows that I'm not "crazy.""

Yes we do, Annz made a thread about it:
message_topic.aspx?topic=360532

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"If they REALLY believed it, why spend all the time carrying on discussions about issues such as this?"

The same reason people watch movies about crazy people.

10/27/2005 11:54:17 AM

Quote :

"Most everyone knows that I'm not "crazy.""

AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAHHAHA
HAHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAH
AHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAH

10/27/2005 12:01:32 PM

Actions speak louder than words. Say I'm crazy all you want. You're lying. You'll still be back here trying to argue with me in the future.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 12:10 PM. Reason : 1]

10/27/2005 12:10:27 PM

our lying what? what do we have that is lying? a floormat? some carpet?

certainly you don't mean we are not telling the truth!

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 12:11 PM. Reason : *]

10/27/2005 12:10:59 PM

spelling NAZI

10/27/2005 12:11:38 PM