^ Based on that review it seems I want to go with this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261075&cm_re=geforce_gtx_460_1gb-_-14-261-075-_-Product

Is it compatible with your earlier recommendation, J33Pownr?

7/28/2010 11:50:21 AM

I would prefer to stay with nVidia, I'll have to research out the 460.

7/28/2010 12:09:35 PM

the 4xx series are power hogs and furnaces and in 'most' scenarios just 'barely' out perform the ATI cards, it seems they've tweaked the drivers some but it still doesn't eliminate the fact that these cards were poorly engineered.

7/28/2010 12:21:45 PM

Incorrect. The GTX 460 is based on the GF104 architecture. It runs cool and is the new bang for the buck king at around $200. Do some more research.

7/28/2010 12:40:59 PM

didn't realize the GF104 was out yet, my bad

yea, the 460 looks great, awesome price-point, 50W less than the GF100's and faster to boot.

[Edited on July 28, 2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2010 12:44:44 PM

^^Nice call ... and it's humorous that you're telling him to do more research; he does plenty, you have no idea

7/28/2010 12:49:27 PM

Thanks for the suggestion. I looked into the 4xx series about 4 months ago and essentially wrote it off. Nice to hear nVidia has a new contender.

7/28/2010 12:52:55 PM

Quote :

"Is it compatible with your earlier recommendation, J33Pownr? "

YES. See the link below. The cards are very compariable in power and heat as well as fps. With the price being $60 less I should have recommended a GTX 460 instead of the HD 5850. Until I really read the reviews, I was under the impression that it was an over priced pci-e heater like the GTX 470/480 but I have been convinced otherwise. If you fold, I hear its one of the better ppd cards at the moment too.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/07/12/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460-graphics-card-review/11

7/28/2010 2:52:32 PM

So lets see I have a solid case and I recently bought a I believe 1000w PSU so Ive got those covered. Im currently using a Geforce GFX 260 card which I suppose could hold me over. Im thinking of replacing the mobo, cpu, ram and popping all the old stuff into another case and throwing most of the drives in that as a basic storage computer that I can just either remote into or pickup a monitor/mouse/keyboard switch. Decisions decisions...

7/28/2010 3:29:22 PM

^^ So then, my apologies but as I said I'm basically a noob in today's rat race.

Could you provide an updated build recommendation, including the 1GB GTX 460 and a hard drive, as well as Win 7 Home Premium 64 bit? Also considering the i7, so here's my current plan:

CPU Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8 GHz 289.99
Mobo OCZ Special Ops Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 84.99
GFX Pail GeForce GTX 460 1GB 229.99
RAM G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) 179.98
PSU CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-650HX 650W 119.99
Case Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower 54.99
HDD ??
Win 7 Home Prem 64

[Edited on July 28, 2010 at 5:29 PM. Reason : ]

7/28/2010 5:12:38 PM

i really would not suggest mix/matching RAM unless all specs are identical voltage, timings, freq..... er. your motherboard is wrong

[Edited on July 28, 2010 at 6:19 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2010 6:18:47 PM

nm

[Edited on July 28, 2010 at 6:25 PM. Reason : <-idiot]

7/28/2010 6:24:44 PM

Quote :

"RAM G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) 179.98"

Where the hell are you paying 180 for a set of 2GB sticks, this shouldn't be no more than 100 bucks, shit newegg has the 1600 versions for 90 after coupon.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277&cm_re=g.skill_4gb_1600-_-20-231-277-_-Product

It's a CAS 9 so it's a little slower, but with a budget gaming system, you probably won't notice the 1% difference. Also, you should check at the OCZ 700w PSU, I got mine bundled with my Lian case for $40 AR. It's $60 AR and after reading reviews on it, it's probably the best bang for the buck with good features for a cheap price. It's like 86% efficient around the 450-550 watt range, which beats a number of other PSU's in it's class.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018&cm_re=OCZ_Power_supply-_-17-341-018-_-Product

7/28/2010 11:13:08 PM

The Samsung F3 1Tb is the HDD I would get. For a boot drive the minimum cache is 16mb in my opinion. Excluding temporary sales, here is my reason for a 1Tb drive recommendation.

$48 - 250Gb WD Blue 16mb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136161
$55 - 500Gb Samsung F3 16mb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181
$75 - 1Tb Samsung F3 32mb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185

So for 63% more money you get 400% more space and twice the cache. I know you said you dont need it but with the way new games taking upwards of 10Gb, more is better. Newegg does run sale on HDD all the time so you should easily be $10 to $15 below the standard pricing. eg Today only 500GB WD Blue $40 with promo code EMCYVNP29 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

ALSO
Your build has two sets of ram and no MOBO. AMD only uses dual channel ram (2 sticks or 4 sticks) where intel I7 take tripple channel ram (3 sticks or 6 sticks). Its technically the same ram so neither is better. I would do this for an I7 build
$455 - i7-930 and EVGA X58 SLI LE combo http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.439924
$300 - OCZ 6Gb DDR3 and Gigabyte GTX460 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.453398
$60 - OCZ 700W modular http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018&cm_re=OCZ_Power_supply-_-17-341-018-_-Product
$65 - Antec 300 with shipping http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066
$40 - 500Gb WD Blue HDD if ordering today http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073 if not
$75 - 1Tb Samsung F3 32mb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185



[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 8:02 AM. Reason : no mobo]

7/29/2010 7:35:23 AM

^, ^^ Regarding the RAM, I had copy pasted something incorrectly.

So, ^ looks like a good build at 995. My only remaining two questions are:
1) Based on experience, do you really recommend the i7 over the Phenom II? AMD looks cheaper.
2) That build has 6GB RAM. Noticeable difference in stepping down from 8GB?

7/29/2010 9:52:20 AM

1) they are comparable bang/buck, i7 is still faster but it costs more
2) no noticeable difference

7/29/2010 11:03:33 AM

http://www.techspot.com/review/305-starcraft2-performance/

Quote :

"At 1920x1200 using the ultra quality settings, anything faster than the old GeForce GTX 260 is a little pointless and that's saying a lot in our opinion. For those better used to extreme resolutions, the newly released GeForce GTX 460 graphics card appears to be the ultimate weapon in StarCraft II. This card was able to match the GeForce GTX 480 and Radeon HD 5870 graphics cards even at 2560x1600. Therefore we can safely and happily conclude that you won't need to spend over $200 to enjoy StarCraft II in all of its glory at any resolution. [...] CPU clock speeds and thus overclocking can help enhancing StarCraft II performance considerably. We saw a whopping 32% performance increase when boosting the frequency of our Core i7 920 processor from the stock 2.66GHz to 3.70GHz, a 39% overclock. The Core i5 750 produced a massive 40% gain in average frame rates from a similar overclock, which is incredible. "

StarCraft II GPU/CPU comparisons at 1920x1200:

7/29/2010 11:09:17 AM

i JUST came in here to post that

looks like Core i5 & GTX 460 is best performance for the price

[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 11:13 AM. Reason : .]

7/29/2010 11:10:49 AM

Yes, I meant to post the best choice, thanks.

7/29/2010 11:16:55 AM

Looks like i'm going to be buying a GTX 460.

7/29/2010 11:29:28 AM

It looks like SC2 is very cpu limited. Overclock the cpu from 2.6 to 3.7 (39%), frame rates increase between 32-38%.

[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 1:52 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2010 1:50:34 PM

^^Yeah same here. Even though it drives the cost of my build up by $50, it looks like it destroys the 5770's performance.

I wonder how much of that is driver related? ...assuming Blizzard developed the game on systems with nVidia cards so out of the gates the nVidia performance is better, but given time new ATI drivers will bridge the gap a bit.

[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 1:54 PM. Reason : -]

7/29/2010 1:54:25 PM

Alrighty, I believe I've finalized my build. Could one of you folks give a thumbs up or down on it? Came in at right under my $1500 budget.

LG 22X DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH22NS40 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136180

Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TR3X6G1600C9
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145222

Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930
** combo with: ***
EVGA 141-BL-E757-TR LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX X58 SLI LE Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.439924

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Full
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716

SAMSUNG P2350-1 Rose Black 23" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001377

[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 2:18 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2010 2:17:48 PM

you're going to need a faster hard drive than the blue series. go with the WD Black 640GB, i know it's $25 difference, but it's faster (more cache)... the hard drive will be by FAR the biggest bottleneck

[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 2:39 PM. Reason : .]

7/29/2010 2:37:45 PM

^ That Samsung gets a lot of bad reviews.

7/29/2010 2:38:29 PM

i didn't mean the F1 i meant the F3, but neither are as fast as the black, i don't normally suggest them anyhow.

7/29/2010 2:40:28 PM

Okay, swapping the hard drive out for this one:

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319&Tpk=WD%20Black%20640GB

7/29/2010 3:13:25 PM

Okay, swapping the hard drive out for this one:

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319&Tpk=WD%20Black%20640GB

7/29/2010 3:13:25 PM

I'm trying to get my brother a PC for gaming. His budget is $600ish, $200 of which is best buy gift cards. What do you guys think of this plan:

HP Pavillion Refurb $450 + tax + shipping
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/HP+-+Factory-Refurbished+Desktop+with+AMD+Athlon%26%23153;+II+Quad-Core+Processor/9880641.p?id=1218188309007&skuId=9880641
Athlon x4 630
6gb ddr3
Win7
640gb SATA HDD
optical drive
keyboard
mouse

Sapphire ATI HD5670 1gb DDR5 $81 after rebate & free shipping
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-567_1GB&c=CJ

LG Monitor 23" 19xx by 10xx, 2ms, dvi, hdmi,
$160

TP-Link Wireless N Adapter
$25

[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 8:11 PM. Reason : .]

7/29/2010 8:04:03 PM

^ That monitor is not a true 2 ms. It's 2 ms gray-to-gray. Average is probably higher, around 8 ms, especially for that low price. Watch for shadowing and blur.

7/29/2010 8:08:22 PM

Since your upgrading the HDD get the 640 black from intrex on wake forest rd. Its the 64mb cache version and only $5 more than newegg. Not sure why newegg doesn't carry it. http://www.intrex.com/parts/parts.aspx

Also while your there get the Win7 Professional Edition DVD, 64-bit, OEM. I am not a fan of Home Editions http://www.intrex.com/parts/parts.aspx

7/30/2010 8:51:05 AM

^ I live in Maryland.

Also based on what I've read about the OEM I decided not to go that route. Went with a Full version.

Thanks for the help J33. Order is placed.

7/30/2010 10:56:44 AM

Quote :

"It looks like SC2 is very cpu limited. Overclock the cpu from 2.6 to 3.7 (39%), frame rates increase between 32-38%."

A lot of the newer games are CPU limited, I know Bad Company 2 is heavily a CPU driven game, which surprised me. Also food for thought, SC2 is a directx 9 game... because they spent too long developing it, blame WOW. If it wasn't for WOW, this game would be out and became another classic 2-5 years ago...

7/30/2010 1:20:28 PM

^another reason I'm keeping my 9800GX2 (supports DX10) is b/c SC2 is DX9 and not DX11, still one of the best graphics cards ever made.

7/30/2010 1:51:07 PM

So apparently I cannot or should not overclock my new processor with the stock cooling unit and stock grease?

Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930

Googling I've done says not to, but no one in here ever mentioned anything about it...?

8/4/2010 6:49:19 PM

You'd probably be fine unless you tried to take it over like 3.4 maybe.

What would a used e6750 G0 stepping go for? I recently picked up a q9450 from a friend for $100 and have absolutely no use for this anymore.

8/4/2010 7:55:31 PM

^^you can typically overclock any processor to "some" degree, the only limitation is typically heat and manufacturing process, unless of course the manufacturer locked the multiplier.

3.4Ghz is about what I'd say is safe based on other results I've seen before needing some other cooling, but in general because of the imperfections in a stock cooler and the 'typically' poor performance from the uneven thermal tape (instead of evenly applied grease), it's not normally suggested to overclock, you won't get very far, and likely will overheat the CPU too easily. it has a 130W TDP so i'd say keep it under 70'C at full load, 80'C would be max. just keep in mind, the higher the temp at prolonged amounts of time, the shorter life your CPU will last, and it's pretty exponential... i think they start throttling down at 100'C

^E6750 G0 would probably fall somewhere between $75-90

[Edited on August 4, 2010 at 8:17 PM. Reason : C not F]

[Edited on August 4, 2010 at 8:21 PM. Reason : .]

8/4/2010 8:10:20 PM

Wylock, the stock coolers are actually decent coolers, compared to the older dual core or the p4 days. Scrap off that thermal tape crap thats on it and spend the $10-20 on Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound. Shit, I bought my tube back in 98? and I've built like 2 dozen computers with it already and it's only halfway used. You should be able to get 3.2-3.4 with no issues on stock cooler. If you get a nice big after market air cooler, 3.4 is very obtainable maybe 3.5-3.6 (3.8 might be tricky...), but it's best to keep it at 3.4 to be on the safe and reliable side.

Unless you go water. 4.1 would be nice.

btw, I broke down and bought SC2, it sucks spending $60 full price for game, but damn, its fun as shit. Wished you could zoom out a bit, but yeah, its just SC1 with a few new units and the same interface. It's nice to jump right in and play multiplayer without any issues besides not knowing the new units.

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 8:46 AM. Reason : ]

8/5/2010 8:42:11 AM

OK FOLKS

I'm up and running. Nine minutes from first boot to Windows 7 desktop.

SC2 installing now.

Back in my day, 3dMark 2001 by madonion was the coolest. What's a good show-off tool today that I should download?

ALSO - what's the ideal freeware for monitoring temps, cpu, gpu, memory, etc?

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 6:45 PM. Reason : ]

8/5/2010 6:45:12 PM

I've been out of it awhile too, but here's what I'd use:

CoreTemp for CPU
NVidia nTune for GPU
SuperPi, HD Tach, 3DMark for benchmarks

8/5/2010 7:02:43 PM

I use the back of my hand to figure out the core temps of my cpu and gpu. lol

8/5/2010 7:40:17 PM

^^ CoreTemp works. nTune gave me a BSoD.

8/5/2010 8:52:41 PM

Okay, I overclocked the 930 from 2.8 to 3.14 and set my memory to 1600 - for some reason it was at 1066.

Temps:

SC2 at 1920 x 1080, Ultra everything, during two hours of play, the max of the four cores reached 63. Averaged around 60.

As for my GPU, ambient is around 35, and the highest it got during that play period was 52. Upon reading reviews, it appears the Gigabyte GTX460 I selected has the best cooling of any GTX460 available - I think these results support those reviews, right? The damn thing has two fans.

All stock cooling.

8/5/2010 10:38:43 PM

those are good temps to be at, though I'd say you can push the CPU more if you wanted.

8/5/2010 11:50:25 PM

I wouldn't unless he got rid of that thermal paste crap and got some real silver stuff. That can save you a few degrees in heat transfer, then a $30 after market cooler is another few degrees and you'd be back down to 45-50 area.

8/6/2010 5:48:20 AM

I did get the 9.99 Dynex tube from Best Buy, and used it. Sorry, I guess that's not stock cooling. The one exception.

8/6/2010 7:30:09 AM

^^except he's got 10'C to spare until 70, and 40'C to spare before the CPU starts throttling.

again, it comes down to heat. i would highly suggest replacing the thermal paste too as it will give you a couple more degrees to spare, but that is not the limiting factor yet.

the Corei series are a LOT more heat tolerant than the Core2 series.

[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 10:52 AM. Reason : .]

8/6/2010 10:39:02 AM

Ok, I'm really close to pulling the trigger on this. Anything terrible stand out? Forgetting anything (besides the optical drive)?

GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333
$230

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (I'll probably end up getting more memory in a year or so)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231180
$94

COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216
$90

OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018
$80

Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 32MB Cache
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136283
promo code brings this to $60

GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128412
$120

Intel Core i5-750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215
$195

Total: $869
Bonus - all items are free shipping. There's also $35 worth of mail in rebates (between the power supply and motherboard). I don't really count that, since I figure the MIR are nearly impossible to actually get.

[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 11:51 AM. Reason : -]

8/6/2010 11:49:49 AM

MIRs are easy to get, you just follow the instructions so long as it's a reputable brand.

I think the build is good, aside from your choice of case, but that's 90% subjective anyhow.

8/6/2010 11:56:00 AM

I'm not married to the case. Which would you recommend? P.S. I wouldn't really consider a case that's in the triple digit range. To me a case is a case. I just chose that one because my el cheap-o case was $55 + $20 shipping. So I figured why not get a better case with free shipping. At least the extra money is going toward a better quality case as opposed to something wasted like shipping.

8/6/2010 12:04:27 PM