You have to hit 30 rounds within the target to pass. It is not the paper only requirement.

1/24/2009 1:11:55 AM

This all depends on the Instructor though.

Ours was 75% of shots within a 2' silhouette. that was all

1/24/2009 10:48:47 AM

Quote :

"It is not the paper only requirement."

It was for our class, and probably every class by that instructor/range.

1/24/2009 10:58:03 AM

Yeah that's no worries then, were I to do it I was just debating what I would bring depending on the distances involved. (target .22 vs pf-9 carry piece vs glock etc)

But I'd probably just qualify with what I'd actually intend to be carrying in that case, shouldn't have any trouble at that distance with any of them.

1/24/2009 11:26:57 AM

in my class, there were required reloads, but other than that just straight shooting. take some thing you dont have to stop every 7 rounds and reload though, or at least bring enough magazines so you dont have to keep going to the bench to reload magazines.

and yeah the performance test is complete crap. the only people that had issues in my class were want to be tactical kids, i think one had a full size usp tactical which he couldnt keep on target when firing fast. when youre focused and not threatened that target at that distance is HUGE

1/24/2009 3:47:55 PM

Hey guys, I got a Sig Mosquito a few weeks ago and am looking for something to CC with. What would you guys suggest that would be comparable to the sig? I want a subcompact and do realize that if i don't get a sig, it will be different.... what would you guys get?

1/24/2009 6:33:25 PM

I have a Taurus subcompact and holster for sale in the classified thread. I've been carrying it for almost a year, so I can assure you that it's comfortable and easy to use.

My .02 is that a subcompact is best for a first CC gun, but service pistols are fine if you're used to carrying something around. They're much heavier and harder to conceal, so you have to be comfortable with the possibility of printing or exposing it momentarily. They also require better gear and a good feel for where your clothing can handle that extra weight.

1/24/2009 7:51:10 PM

^^ take a look at Kahr or Glock.


Both are simple to use and offer a wide range of calibers and sizes. Glocks are cheaper, Kahrs are a bit more concealable.

1/24/2009 8:06:43 PM

I dont have any clue about concealing, but I have a Sig Mosquito too, and it's VERY similar in feel and size to my Sig P226 9mm.

1/24/2009 9:44:06 PM

With the right holster you can conceal just about anything.

1/24/2009 10:00:25 PM

I had a gun control discussion with a friend the other day and I found that I wasn't able to defend gun rights in a certain area.

Basically, my friend's argument was that stricter gun control laws help to decrease domestic crimes - such as friends getting into a fight and someone ends up shooting the other, angry SO's shooting their spouse, and accidental gun deaths (basically, gun deaths as a result of accidents and crimes of passion).

He conceded that gun control laws don't do anything to deter typical criminals, thieves, etc.

I know education and being smart with your firearms is one argument to the accidental cases, but how do I defend gun rights in relation to crimes of passion. Obviously, once someone shoots another out of passion/arguments, they are no longer law-abiding citizens, but the case stands that these people are often law-abiding citizens before this occurs. And AFAIK, there is no way to weed these people out during typical BG/MH checks.

1/25/2009 1:23:27 AM

for an absolute defense, I'm not sure.... BUT, the number of criminals committing gun violence is MUCH higher than the "heat of the moment" gun violence. It's like saying banning cars or alcohol would stop Drunk driving deaths. #1, it's just not true. Many people will still find a way. If someone would go get a gun to kill their spouse that they found in bed with someone else, they'll still grab a knife, bat, car, etc. I'll concede that deaths may be lower but it's not going to stop because guns aren't available. #2, the number of people killed by drunk drivers is lower than the number of people that absolutely depend on vehicles or can handle alcohol with no problems. By banning it, you're affecting the majority for a relatively minor (but ugly & noticed) problem. In the case of guns, you're actually taking away someone's ability to defend themselves. While both are unlikely, I'm more likely to have a gun/knife pulled on me by a criminal than my girlfriend going crazy and trying to shoot me in the middle of the night.

Then ask your friend how much not having guns around helped the girl who got beheaded at VT recently? Does he feel that knives should be banned as well? Would he not have rather heard that some CCP holder illegally (it was on campus after all) shot the crazy fucker in the head and ended the situation before the girl's death?

Unfortunately, there's no real way to win an argument with an anti. They're either anti for life or they'll realize that we don't live in a perfect world and as a result, there are no good arguments for the banning of guns. Anyway, hopefully that makes sense. It's late & I'm exhausted so everything is kinda jumbled.

1/25/2009 2:00:28 AM

Quote :

"Hey guys, I got a Sig Mosquito a few weeks ago and am looking for something to CC with. What would you guys suggest that would be comparable to the sig? I want a subcompact and do realize that if i don't get a sig, it will be different.... what would you guys get?"

If you want the best, go HK P2000sk. If you don't mind a DAO-type trigger, then you can also consider Sig P250 (they have a subcompact on the way if not out already), S&W M&P compact, or Glock 26/27

1/25/2009 11:01:54 AM

^^thanks. makes sense to me.

He's not anti-gun (as in no guns period/making it nearly impossible to get guns), just in favor of strict gun control laws - dumb ones (IMHO) like those being proposed now

1/25/2009 12:44:49 PM

Quote :

"^^ take a look at Kahr or Glock."

we picked up a Kahr P9 at the gun show last weekend for the wife's CC. I had really not ever heard much about them until we started looking at sub-compact size guns. Can't say that we've shot it yet because we had to send it back to get the front night sight replaced, but from handling it and breaking it down, it looks like a quality piece. Can't wait to get it back and "break" it in with a couple hundred rounds.

1/25/2009 6:49:27 PM

READ THESE Then act.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=34&t=343007

http://www.whatbubbaknows.com/shallnotbeinfringed/

There is nothing ILLEGAL about carrying at this event, btw.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 10:45 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2009 10:44:57 PM

You shouldn't post that there's nothing illegal about carrying at this thing. It sounds like a demonstration to me and that would make it illegal to carry there under GS 14-277.2. I'd be pretty surprised if the Capital Police and/or Raleigh PD wouldn't feel the same way. Both links you posted also specifically states that guns should not be present. Don't give the anti's any more ammo than they already have by getting arrested for carrying at a demonstration/parade/whatever else you want to call this.

1/25/2009 11:21:32 PM

Quote :

"Rules of Engagement In order to maintain compliance with applicable regulations, some "Rules of Engagement" will be in effect. 1 - Firearms: No firearms will be present, concealed or otherwise. "

And it is a permitted demonstration. Carrying is not allowed.

1/25/2009 11:26:32 PM

N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.

It is not ILLEGAL to carry at a demonstration unless you are at a health car facility.
They may have filled something out saying that there would not be weapons present, but the right to peacefull assembly cannot limit the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

1/26/2009 12:10:25 AM

^

1/26/2009 12:16:31 AM

Quote :

"or demonstration ((upon any private health care facility) or (upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions)) to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon."

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 1:21 AM. Reason : Clarifying.]

1/26/2009 1:16:22 AM

Quote :

"upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions"

So you're telling me the sidewalk and road are "owned or under the control of the state"?
That sounds like a load of bull to me, you know, public property and all that. We are not a police state.

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 9:10 AM. Reason : .]

1/26/2009 9:06:52 AM

We are not a police state, but there are rules, and this is not the time to make an example of any of us.

The law is clear - carry is not permitted during a public demonstration. The last thing we need is to give the other side any more ammo - "Look, they can't even follow the laws we have..." the whole point of this demonstration is first, to exercise our right to peaceably assemble, to second, reinforce our right to bear arms. Let's make sure we're following the rules for one, then we'll have a better shot at accomplishing two.

I will be there, but I will not be carrying. I hope all you guys will be too.

1/26/2009 9:52:28 AM

Who around here offers the cheapest FFL Transfer? I'm only ordering a receiver if that makes any difference. I was at Davi's not long ago and they said it would be $40, that just seems a bit high to me.

1/26/2009 11:07:16 AM

http://www.gunbroker.com/user/DealerNetwork.asp

Go there and put in your zip code. Then chose whichever ffl holder fits your needs.

1/26/2009 11:31:50 AM

Quote :

"Mike Bucalos CAROLINA SHOOTERS SUPPLIES 1100 Capital Blvd Raleigh, NC 27603 email: Click here to email me phone: 919-844-1704 Hours: Wed 5:00pm-9:00pm. Other times by appointment. Transfer fee: $20.00 per transfer Jim Jim's Gun Shop 609 Woodland Rd Raleigh, NC 27603 email: Click here to email me phone: 919-772-0995 Hours: 10:00 am-6:00 pm Transfer fee: $20.00 "

If Mike still does it, I transferred with him a while back, he seems like a good guy.

But Jim will do it same price and he's got better hours, I've done business with him before as well.

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 1:49 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2009 1:47:32 PM

But Jim isn't reliable. That's the dig. Good transfer price, poor service. He WILL forget about your gun even if your info is written all over the box.

1/26/2009 4:21:27 PM

It's a little more at $30, but PDHSC has done several for me and they're always very quick and helpful. I've always had a call or voicemail within an hour of when the tracking info indicated it was delivered.

1/26/2009 4:51:25 PM

Quote :

"But Jim isn't reliable. That's the dig. Good transfer price, poor service. He WILL forget about your gun even if your info is written all over the box."

as long as YOU remember to call him once the gun should have been delivered, is that really a problem?

1/27/2009 10:06:26 AM

I've had a good experience with Gunner's Alley in downtown Cary. $25 with prices subject to drop upon becoming familiar with the owner, Ed.

1/27/2009 7:35:36 PM

Quote :

"as long as YOU remember to call him once the gun should have been delivered, is that really a problem?"

YES, it is a problem. The last pistol I had transferred to him arrived when the seller said it would. I called Jim and he told me it wasn't there, when it WAS. I called everyday for 3 days and he finally said it was there AND he joked that if I hadn't called he would have kept it for himself.

1/27/2009 8:23:58 PM

Ed at Gunner's Alley is a great person to deal with, and has one of if not the best holster selection in the area.

1/27/2009 9:44:02 PM

Quote :

"The law is clear - carry is not permitted during a public demonstration. "

Thank you!!!

It amazes me the assholes that think they are fighting for gun rights when the really just continue to fuck things up.

Just like you open carry idiots, you need to get a ccp and hide that shit. I fucking despise you under trained cocksuckers that want to show off your guns in public.

Im the most pro gun asshole you will find, but goddamn if yall dont fuck it up for the rest of us

1/27/2009 10:23:40 PM

Open carry is a right. I have gotten my CCP, however that does not remove my ability to open carry. It just gives me more options. The biggest issue is Sheeple who are scared shitless of guns. The more they see peaceful, polite, well dressed open carry, and the more they see open carry folks get along fine with police, the less panicked they become about it.

1/27/2009 10:56:41 PM

^^ people like you give bad names to all gun owners.

1/27/2009 11:05:21 PM

^^,^the fact is that just as you WANT guns, some people want you NOT to have them and that wont change by simply wearing them for everyone to see. disturbing the peace simply by showing your weapon isnt exactly the best idea to get your agenda done. If you have your concealed carry license, use it. at the least concede to the FACT that if someone has ill intentions, you probably wont know until you have to act, so you should plan accordingly and dont give them a reason to shoot you before you can draw the gun that they can clearly see. while he was a little more stern with his wording ^^^is right. the people youre trying to MAKE comfortable around guns werent brought up the same way we were. period. they dont want you to possess one, much less around them. so stop trying to force it on them and make them uncomfortable to the point that they become more apt to be anti-gun asshats.

1/28/2009 12:16:33 AM

Lets not get an OC argument started here.
OC is not for everyone. It has times and places that are more appropriate than others.
All gun people should agree: at least you are carrying.
What right does the gov't have to regulate the 2A? If someone doesn't want to pay, the OC is the option available. One state doesn't offer CC permits, specifically because OC is legal.

OC is a great way to increase pubic awareness and knowledge. Just because you want your 'tactical advantage of surprise' when there is a gun in your face doesn't mean that an OCer will be shot first.

There are literally thousands of pages of argument on this topic, and you have no proof that OC hurts the 2A movement.

1/28/2009 12:25:52 AM

im pretty sure you and i are "in agreement." Im not trying to start a discussion on OC from a gun owners perspective, im saying that in certain situations it helps to look at things from a different perspective. i prefer to carry concealed around town but "tactical advantage of surprise" - come on. is a pretty silly term and doesnt have anything to do with it. i dont look menacing and i like that. If i see a person open carrying i take notice. i dont care to be remembered or singled out for any reason. true, most people with the intent of committing a crime dont "open carry", but my stance on it is just to avoid things alltogether. so for my everyday situation, that is my case, although a personal one, which i am not trying to push on anyone else. i went through school in the college of design (not that this means anything, but i would imagine i was around a more "liberal" group of friends) so i have had this conversation countless times with people on the exact opposite end. i am simply stating the fact that i know that some people take open carry in a different way than us. you dont have to read thousands of pages to tell that some people just dont like guns. while it is good for non gun-owners to see people open carrying and being civil (i agree here), it is also good for US to hold up our end and use reason and not allow it to add fuel to an already hot fire.

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 12:50 AM. Reason : (cod clarification)]

1/28/2009 12:47:42 AM

Just gonna throw in .02 here and say that while I think OC is fine, in a state where CCP's are so easy to get, I can't think of a *good* reason not to have one, unless you just can't swing $200. If you can't afford $200 for that, the bills are going to really suck ass when you lawyer up after an SD incident.

I don't agree with -

Quote :

"Just like you open carry idiots, you need to get a ccp and hide that shit. I fucking despise you under trained cocksuckers that want to show off your guns in public."

The few OC'ers I know are pretty well trained individuals, but it still completely escapes me why anyone would want to do that in a (relatively) free state like ours that has CCP's.

I also respectfully disagree with -

Quote :

"The more they see peaceful, polite, well dressed open carry, and the more they see open carry folks get along fine with police, the less panicked they become about it."

Most, but not all, people that oppose gun ownership do so out of sheer ignorance, and the rest are either idiots or downright malicious. Ghandi and Mother Theresa could have OC'ed every day of their life and 99% of those people wouldn't change their opinion in the least. Stupid people will be stupid people, and all the responsibility in the world can't change that. It's based on a fear of objects, not so much the people with them, so paint OC'ers any way you want, they will still raise hell.

Summarized nicely with -

Quote :

"the fact is that just as you WANT guns, some people want you NOT to have them and that wont change by simply wearing them for everyone to see."

This is simply an unfortunate truth. I am grateful that I live in a state that affords me the option of concealment, so I take full advantage of it and avoid the possibility of trouble.

OC is fine in my opinion, but there is no way you can say that it affords any political or social advantage with our society's way of thinking. Carrying a gun at all is still too far from the norm to say that openly carrying is in any way advantageous.

1/28/2009 11:45:08 AM

Quote :

"the people youre trying to MAKE comfortable around guns werent brought up the same way we were. period. they dont want you to possess one, much less around them. so stop trying to force it on them and make them uncomfortable to the point that they become more apt to be anti-gun asshats."

If I could type without cussing or insulting someone, that would be exactly what I was trying to say.



[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 5:08 PM. Reason : 1]

1/28/2009 4:54:49 PM

I have a genuine question for the people who OC; Do you routinely practice gun retention techniques? I mean like hardcore, not just some half ass attempt playing by yourself.

1/28/2009 5:08:11 PM

I taught beginning karate for a number of years to young children, as well as basic self defense classes. I was a bouncer for a while. I trained with a few marines for a while. I carry a knife strong and weak side.
All of my OC holsters have at least 2 forms of retention.

Does that answer your question some?

I could ask the same of people who regularly CC. Do you practice weapon retention? If not, you should.

1/28/2009 6:01:38 PM

***Please Note: I'm not anti-CCH or OC, just interested***

Do you practice weapon retention? Karate, being a bouncer and a 2 forms of retention are not practicing weapon retention. Thugs and psychos know karate too. But a thug or psycho who wants your gun, is going to try and get that gun. I just ask this because it would make me personally uncomfortable to openly carry a gun knowing that some lunatic might just walk up and take my gun because its there and they want it. You can't just rely on retention. Bad guys know how to open holsters and struggle can break a holster or cause it to open.

1/28/2009 6:21:15 PM

My answer was a yes, not a no.
If you ask anybody if they actively practice weapon retention the answers will be mostly the same:
Personal Awareness
Previous Training
Retention Holster

If you are asking if people practice force on force drills regularly, then the answer will dramatically drop to near none I would guess. People may practice force on force once a year, maybe more, maybe less. I occasionally spar with my brother. There are schools and programs you can attend on retention training.
This is stuff that is difficult to replicate all the time. If someone thinks about it, practices it by themselves, or has attended any course, then I would say they practice regularly.

There are not any incidents on record of a person (not an officer) loosing their weapon in the scenario you described. I'm not saying it is impossible, just that it is unlikely and there are no statistics to support the idea.

1/28/2009 7:14:27 PM

Its cool. I'm just trying to understand the mindset, thats all. Just for me, I wouldn't open carry; I've never heard of any OC'er having their firearm taken but again not impossible. That would be my biggest reason not to OC. But to each his own.

1/28/2009 7:18:16 PM

I OC quite a bit, it's perfectly legal, my right, and there is truly nothing wrong with it.

Hell, it's been a positive thing in my life - Many people are now a little more educated because they've seen me OC and they ask questions. I've even been thanked twice for OC'ing. I've even OC'ed in banks (legal, though many people would say to never to this) and the teller knew it was legal and struck up a conversation about it. The teller said she likes the idea of people OC'ing in banks.

There is no reason to hate on or chastise people for OC'ing, even in a CCH state. I'm getting my CCH for numerous reasons, but until I can make the trip back home, I'll continue to OC.

[Edited on January 29, 2009 at 1:22 AM. Reason : .]

1/29/2009 1:22:10 AM

I'm not hating of chastising anyone. Its just curiosity to be honest. There are inherent risks to OC, and before I went through this thread, I've really never heard of anyone doing it. So, out of curiosity, I wanted/want to know more about it because in my mind, OC sounds crazy.

1/29/2009 6:05:41 AM

^yeh, I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to those who posted earlier.

OC doesn't really seem crazy to me, I haven't seen tons of people do it, but I've probably seen 15-20 people OC'ing during my life.

[Edited on January 29, 2009 at 8:59 AM. Reason : ,]

1/29/2009 8:58:54 AM

yeah- now that I have my CCP, I'd just prefer to keep it my little secret when I'm carrying (no need to rustle any feathers)


I have nothing against OC (if I were camping or hiking or something along those lines, that is probably how I would carry)- I just don't feel that comfortable doing it when I am in foodlion or out to dinner or something


to each their own, i guess...

1/29/2009 9:49:32 AM

set em up

1/29/2009 8:46:33 PM