-1 credibility for retweeting Kevin Corchiani is first movie.

12/13/2011 2:31:47 PM

Didn't this same credibility swing happen with Lowe?

12/13/2011 6:12:12 PM

^^that is more like -1000

SMH

12/13/2011 6:44:34 PM

at some point gotta start turning these "great efforts" into W's to have any chance to make the tourney

that said, good partial effort against the #1.

one thing that is clear after today if it wasnt before is that we are 5, maybe 6, man team. no depth to speak of and if anyone comes out we see a huge dropoff. also, leslie needs to man the fuck up. as dumb as he is, he is def our most valuable player and when he isnt on floor the offense gets stopped up worse than me on a 7day cheese diet.

12/17/2011 8:40:52 PM

^Agreed. I like the improvements we've made this season, but the L's are never fun. Depth is certainly our key issue.

12/17/2011 9:35:00 PM

At the end of the day we are still losing games. The improved opposition is nice, but lets remember sid lost a lot of games the same way against good teams. You wonder if teams just get used to losing.

12/17/2011 9:45:07 PM

St. Bonnie game will be a good reality check for us

12/17/2011 10:22:27 PM

^Yep, on the road after a big game which we lost. Definitely has the potential to be one of the games where we come out flat and uninspired...let's hope it's not, however.

12/17/2011 11:40:02 PM

The offence is exciting as I have ever seen in it. We r coming along well.

12/18/2011 12:38:28 AM

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2011/12/17/1144147?sac=Sports

Bringing Alejo on board +1

12/18/2011 3:33:32 AM

^^ just a second there professor... there defense does not exist though.

So we are not coming along well.

12/18/2011 8:49:10 AM

St. Bonaventure nearly beat Illinois in Champaign. We can not take them lightly.

12/18/2011 8:52:33 AM

Our defense is abysmal. I'd be very surprised if that's something we can turn around significantly midseason.

I still like this team...but we're going to have to go 10-6 in the ACC to make the tourney. And I DO NOT feel confident in that happening.

12/18/2011 10:29:40 AM

Howell is a head case. Just seems permanently pissed off at everybody.



edit: not 10 seconds after typing this i see him on espn. howell:"where did you learn to guard the 3" alex: "same place you learnt to make a layup"




[Edited on December 18, 2011 at 10:46 AM. Reason : -]

12/18/2011 10:42:38 AM

Quote :

"Howell is a head case. Just seems permanently pissed off at everybody."

What happened to you nut-jobs who were demanding that he get more minutes? I remember getting into very heated debates last year (and the year before) when I stated he was good for a change of pace off the bench but he was too short and had no verticle which made him a defensive liability around the basket. Oh the fickle fanboys of TWW...

12/18/2011 11:51:04 AM

^ I don't think anyone said Howell is the perfect player but he definitely needed more minutes the past few seasons. He played great alongside Smith and we went on a huge surge late in the season and the ACC/NIT tournament when we started playing Howell.

Last year he didn't get it going fully but he's been productive this season except for his two game shitfest vs Indiana and Stanford.


Anyway, our tournament hopes are down to a nub now. Our RPI and kenpom have both slipped out of the top 70 and its a long road back to a respectable top 40 and NCAA appearance.

12/18/2011 12:25:17 PM

gottfrieds face in that espn pic needs the 4 frame zoom

12/18/2011 1:01:01 PM

Where does this "Howell is a headcase" talk come from? Obviously in that picture it looks like he's arguing a little with Johnson...but that makes him a headcase? He's had a couple rough games, but has been pretty productive aside from that.

12/18/2011 1:02:42 PM

well he pretty much always looks like someone pissed in his milk, but idk if there has been talk of acutally being pissy in the locker room

he MUST get yelled at alot, b/c he makes some really dumb decisions on the court

12/18/2011 1:09:36 PM

Quote :

"Where does this "Howell is a headcase" talk come from?"

Folks just looking for anything to complain about. We're far from a top25 team and getting there doesn't happen over night. It's clear that guys are still figuring out their roll on the team. I thought Howell did a great job rebounding for us down the stretch and ran the floor pretty well on the break though. He made some pretty tough shots on put backs as well. He mishandled a few tough passes, but overall did a lot of things well for us.

Our bigs really need to learn how to set some screens though. We were passing the ball side to side way too much against that zone. We became a little too predictable at times and that's where a lot of our turnovers came from. Additionally, Brown still has a long way to go in learning his roll as a PG. Learning how to create for his teammates within the offense and when he needs to take the game over.

12/18/2011 1:24:02 PM

Coach not wearing a tie -1 credibility.

12/18/2011 1:29:38 PM

fuck ties +2 credibility

12/18/2011 1:46:11 PM

BigMan157 giving credibility -100 credibility

12/18/2011 1:57:19 PM

who the fuck are you?

[Edited on December 18, 2011 at 1:58 PM. Reason : Bigman is a fucking saint]

12/18/2011 1:58:30 PM

had to be warm last night with all those layers.

12/18/2011 2:09:15 PM

Quote :

"He mishandled a few tough passes"

Yeah, he does that pretty regularly....

12/18/2011 4:49:47 PM

Our defense is aweful, but you have to look at it under the same scope as what do you expect from Gottfried. At Alabama, Gottfried won games by having an overpowered offense and a 'decent' defense. If you look at our offense compared to our defense, it seems like both are pretty proportionate to what you would expect from Gottfried. When you look at the loss margins we've had this year, they are much slimmer than what we've experienced in the past.

This is last year's results compared to this year's results prior to the Syracuse game.


LINK

As far as "we saw the same thing out of Sidney his first season", I think this logic is flawed because you aren't considering what preceded Sid. Lowe coached a team of players that had been developed in "a system" that was NCAA quality. If Gottfried is "looking like Sid his first season" (which I disagree with, but we'll assume it's correct), given the lack of accomplishment the last 5 years, I'd say that's a huge improvement.

12/19/2011 9:57:14 AM

http://www.gopack.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121911aac.html

12/19/2011 11:53:10 AM

Quote :

"As far as "we saw the same thing out of Sidney his first season", I think this logic is flawed because you aren't considering what preceded Sid. Lowe coached a team of players that had been developed in "a system" that was NCAA quality. If Gottfried is "looking like Sid his first season" (which I disagree with, but we'll assume it's correct), given the lack of accomplishment the last 5 years, I'd say that's a huge improvement. "

Uh, what?

12/19/2011 11:55:26 AM

^In other words, Sidney had developed players. Gottfried does not. If Gottfried is able to get Sid's undeveloped players to perform the same or better than Sid was able to get Herb's developed players to perform, that's improvement.

12/19/2011 12:09:52 PM

Quote :

"In other words, Sidney had developed players. Gottfried does not."

Top MP in Sid's first year: Costner (Fr), Grant (Jr), McCauley (So), Fells (So), Atsur (Sr)
Top MP in Got's first year: Brown (So), CJW (Sr), Howell (Jr), Wood (Jr), Leslie (So)

So, not really

And neither team has any bench at all

You can say Got inherited a team that didn't know how to play basketball because they had a dumbass for a coach, and you're probably right. But Sid inherited a team that didn't know how to play basketball in the post-peach basket era.

I'd say it's draw, but I really don't know what the fuck we're talking about.

12/19/2011 12:28:46 PM

It boggles the mind when people still attempt to defend one of the absolute worst coaches in ACC history. Every player on our team is better than they were last year. Every one. Howell is the closest to being the exception, but he's always been a tad bit overrated, and at least Gottfried whipped him into shape.

12/19/2011 12:30:35 PM

Let the record show that I, one of the most vocal members of the Sid Sunshine Squad, called him a dumbass

12/19/2011 12:33:32 PM

^^Exactly.

^^^All you did was rattle off names of players and call it a draw. Grant had talent, he just hated Sid. Part of being a coach is winning over the players or parting ways (see how Gottfried handled Harrow). But having Grant and Atsur? Seriously, you are going to tell me that Gottfried's squad is probably a "draw" having Atsur there at point compared to LoBo?

It's no contest. With few exceptions, Sid was handed a team with players who had gone to an NCAA tournament and knew how to get there. Sid's job was to modify the existing squad into something that could do more than just become a bubble team. Gottfried, on the other hand, was handed Sid's terribly developed players and is catching flak from some fans for not beating #1 Syracuse. How quickly we forget the 39 point drubbing at Wisconsin last year...

12/19/2011 12:38:28 PM

I'm so confused right now.

12/19/2011 12:44:05 PM

Quote :

"Part of being a coach is winning over the players or parting ways (see how Gottfried handled Harrow). But having Grant and Atsur? Seriously, you are going to tell me that Gottfried's squad is probably a "draw" having Atsur there at point compared to LoBo?"

I was talking about experience, not talent. Go back to SFN where this bullshit flies. I don't like you.

[Edited on December 19, 2011 at 12:46 PM. Reason : I fucking swear I'm not going to argue the merits of Sidney Lowe ever again]

12/19/2011 12:45:29 PM

Trust me, it was very obvious you were talking about experience. Experience means NOTHING if it's not developed into a solid player. One of the biggest complaints against Sidney was his lack of a disciplined training regimen that developed players.

Atsur and Brown may be every bit as equally talented. Actually, I'd argue Brown could be much more talented. It has nothing to do with talent, though, it has to do with development.

Why you're getting so frustrated about this is completely lost on me.

12/19/2011 12:59:10 PM

Healthy senior-year Atsur was 10x the PG Brown is now

12/19/2011 1:00:40 PM

....yeah................ that's kind of the point. Senior year Atsur was X10 better than current Brown because Atsur had good player development that Brown did not get from Sidney.

That would give Sidney in his first year a much better PG than Gottfried has in his first year; the conclusion being that Sidney had much more to work with than Gottfried does.

12/19/2011 1:03:54 PM

This is dumb

I hate you

12/19/2011 1:09:12 PM

What the fuck does Sid Lowe have to do with Gottfried's credibility? Shoo troll

12/19/2011 1:11:00 PM

Seems like people are really focused on body language

12/19/2011 1:22:49 PM

Dude, Grant hated Sid! HATED him! I read it on PackInsider!

12/19/2011 1:26:30 PM

^^^^It's only dumb because you're trying to make the point that because the seniority (or "experience") was similar that neither coach had an advantage which is fucking stupid.

So one year after 21-9 (10-7), Lowe takes his players to a 18-15 (8-12) record and an RPI rank of 91 (it was 50 the previous season). He did much worse with Sendek's players than Sendek did one year prior.

Last year Lowe finished up with an RPI of 125 and a record of 15-16 (5-12). Gottfried is currently at 6-2 with an RPI of 72. His loses have been by 7, 11, 4, and 16 against opponents who are all in the top 50-ish RPI (I think Stanford just edged up to 51... still well within NCAA tournament teams). Last year we also lost against teams all in the top 50 at this point in the season. The difference is that we lost our games by an average of 17.5 points. Gottfried, so far, has been able to accomplish much more with Lowe's players than Lowe proved he could in 5 years. Maybe things will change, but for now he's looking like a coach that can coach up talent.

If you have some point to make about Gottfried other than "his players had similar seniority" (which is still not a great argument), then I'm all ears. Right now it just sounds like trolling.

12/19/2011 1:32:55 PM

I only tallied up experience because I thought that was the point you were making. Didn't realize you had a way to quantify player development.

I'm not reading the rest of your post. Fuck you.

[Edited on December 19, 2011 at 1:37 PM. Reason : You're pulling out RPI? How old are you? What was State like during the War?]

12/19/2011 1:34:48 PM

Quote :

"...because I thought that was the point you were making."

Quote :

"I'm not reading the rest of your post."

Yeah, I, too, find it difficult to understand the point someone is trying to make when I don't read people's posts that give me facts and statistics to back up their claims.

Gottfried's performance stumping the few Lowe insurgents still trolling the boards = +1 credibility.

Quote :

"You're pulling out RPI? How old are you? What was State like during the War?"

Holy shit................. You do realize that the NCAA selection committee uses RPI to help them select tournament teams, right?

12/19/2011 1:42:02 PM

Quote :

"I'm so confused right now."

12/19/2011 2:31:25 PM

holy shit, NCStatePride is trying to make a case for most retarded sports talk poster in history.

also after reading that complete shit...

Quote :

"I'm not reading the rest any more of your posts. Fuck you."

12/19/2011 2:43:22 PM

It's great how he uses bold to emphasize his points. It's kind of like a real sports writer.

12/19/2011 4:50:31 PM

we have a legit chance of winning our next 9 or 10 games in a row...all of you will shut up if we are 16-4 (5-0)

12/19/2011 4:56:13 PM