what a real cunt thing to do

anyway, chin up and concentrate on that bar

then use it's passage as a pickup line for your next girl

7/16/2010 3:07:49 AM

That blows. Nobody wants that shit on their mind when preparing for the Bar exam. Good luck even more now!

7/16/2010 10:58:46 AM

WHAT? if someone did this to me a week before the bar exam i think i'd be sitting in jail.

because i think i would go on a murderous rampage.

what. a. bitch.

GOOD LUCK! and please, when you pass and get your job and she comes crying back to you, DO NOT TAKE HER BACK.

7/16/2010 11:51:27 AM

thanks guys! yeah, this behavior is definitely inexcusable. i'm definitely using this as a motivating force...get that bar license and don't look back.

7/16/2010 11:59:57 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zsTHY4g2J8

7/16/2010 2:03:04 PM

haha, great video ^

One week until the motha f'ing BAR!! Oh shit!!

7/19/2010 11:38:11 AM

^^

This one is even better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhjhHuMKqgs&feature=related

7/19/2010 11:56:58 AM

Fuck me running...its already Friday before the bar

7/23/2010 9:36:43 AM

Good luck this week to everyone taking the Bar!!

7/25/2010 4:06:32 PM

Quote :

"Good luck this week to everyone taking the Bar!!"

7/26/2010 12:40:01 PM

Done!!! (hopefully) I'm scared because I felt like I killed the essay portion, but I definitely didn't feel good about the MBE. We'll see in 5 weeks.

7/28/2010 5:52:31 PM

We need to talk if you feel like you killed the essay portion bc I definitely don't feel that confident. The afternoon session of MBE was way harder than the morning, it wasn't even close. Sleeping tigers, and regulating private discrimination based on weight, and unilateral conspiracy laws???

7/28/2010 6:37:41 PM

i felt shitty about the entire thing

i know i failed

i didn't think that it could get worse yet today somehow made me feel better about yesterday

and i thought the afternoon sesh of the MBE was easier than the morning but i thought the entire MBE was incredibly hard. wayyyy harder than i was anticipating. there were 1 or 2 questions that i'd never even SEEN/HEARD of before. that made me feel really awesome. not.

and i feel more confident about the essays than the MBE and i don't feel confident about the essays AT ALL

95% sure i failed the shit out of it. make that 99% sure. gross. retaking it is going to suck ass.

[Edited on July 28, 2010 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2010 8:27:02 PM

well if it makes you feel any better, i felt great after walking out of last year's exam and i failed. didn't feel so great after yesterday and today, so i'm hoping that means i passed this time. apparently the fire alarm went off at least once during the san diego MBE, so it could have been worse i guess...

i thought the essays were tough, but fair. i think the only one i completely guessed on was the corporations question. the civ pro was probably my second least favorite.

7/28/2010 9:29:49 PM

that does make me feel better, thanks

i always like talking to people that failed - not because i like to bring others down with me but because i like to hear their perspective and see that LIFE WENT ON even with the failure

i especially like hearing their subsequent passing stories so make sure to tell me that one when you get your results back

7/28/2010 9:33:30 PM

I'm getting ripped tonight,

also, Khcadwal, did you hand-write?

7/28/2010 10:14:07 PM

as sad as it is, im too tired to even drink tonight, im waiting until saturday.

7/28/2010 11:02:35 PM

Quote :

"and i thought the afternoon sesh of the MBE was easier than the morning but i thought the entire MBE was incredibly hard."

In SC they switched up the sections. So while you were talking one half, the person beside was probably taking the other half. Everyone was confused at the end of the exam when I took it because everyone was all, "You thought the first part was hard?? I thought the second part was hard?!?!?!?" And vice versa. it was kinda funny.

7/29/2010 11:07:46 AM

^^^ nah i took it on the computer.

^^ same :/ i just woke up from sleeping almost 14 hours straight. whoops.

^ that is true i forgot that there were different versions

ugh. it was awful.

7/29/2010 11:51:46 AM

If it helps, I was 100% sure I failed.

I knew I did well on the MBE. And I don't know how it is in NC, but in SC, if you do well enough on the MBE, you are allowed to fail one of the six essay questions. So I was hoping I did really well on the MBE and only failed one essay question.

There were two essay questions I feel like I bombed, Probate and CivPro (they hadn't given a Probate question in 25 years and no one studied and everyone thought they failed it), and one that I thought was a possibility, Business Associations.

I never knew which section I failed, but I was astonished to learn that I passed.

7/29/2010 3:13:36 PM

i think i failed like all of the essays

but i know i failed more than one. it was turrible

and the MBE was so hard.

ugh i'm a failureeeeeee

but i feel pretty confident that i'm not dumb enough to fail twice so...hopefully i'll pass eventually :/

i saw some people there that were taking it for the 3rd time. props to them, cause that shit was not fun.

7/29/2010 4:26:00 PM

Have you seen the pass rate for people who take it multiple times?? It's not good...at all.

I told myself that if I failed I would NOT take it a second time. I would take failing as a sign that practicing law just wasn't for me. That, and I just couldn't imagine studying and taking that test one more time.

And I think people who take it again fall into all sorts of traps. They think can't possibly fail it a second time and maybe they don't study as hard. Or they overcompensate for the subjects that they failed and neglect the one that they passed. They only advantage I think multiple test-takers have is that they won't have that initial shock about how long and hard the test is that first-times have.

7/29/2010 5:25:41 PM

yea i know. but i also know several people that failed first and passed the second.

if i failed TWICE i wouldn't take it again

but if i failed this time i'm definitely retaking. i just recently started feeling like a normal human being again after the worst year of my life (ie: not waking up everyday wanting to die) so if i failed i'm definitely giving it another shot (and i've been banking on failing for months now). HOWEVER if i fail twice, then i'm dunzo.

but i know more than a handful that failed the first try and then passed and are doing fine now one fail is not enough for me to totally give up. two fails and i'm out! but i didn't spend $$$ on a degree not to give it my BEST shot at passing. unfortunately my best shot this summer was definitely sub-par. but really its all i could do so i'm not going to beat myself up about it. i think i should have waited and signed up for the feb bar initially, but what is done is done and i just rolled with it.

but yea, i know what you're saying. some of the people i know taking it for the third time definitely did NOT try the first time, or the second time and i bet they didn't try this time either! they've just spent time partying and not studying at all. but that isn't me so if i failed (and i know i did) then i'm taking it over again. oh and i did the requirements for my kaplan stuff so that if i failed i can retake the class fo free. which is nice.



[Edited on July 29, 2010 at 6:58 PM. Reason : .]

7/29/2010 6:54:35 PM

^I feel ya.

I do think the stats for pass rate the next time around are weighed down a lot by stupid people who are just never going to pass. But I know some really smart people who have now failed three times and they made it their lives studying for the Bar. In addition to the reasons I gave above for failing the exam and just being plain dumb, I think some people just aren't good at taking that exam. I can't think of another exam that compares to it. You sit there and think about how hard you had to study for all your exams during law school, then you think about combining most of that into one test...its just ridiculous. And if you have any trouble taking tests like that (whether it be anxiety or just the capacity to retain that much information for a short period of time), then you're pretty much fucked.

I didn't feel good about the test at all...but I'm still a really good test taker and I pretty much have zero anxiety or stress heading into a test. I remember goofing off the whole time in between sections and pissing off everyone around me who was pulling out their hair and biting their nails to the bone. There are so many variables that go into passing that test that its a wonder anyone passes it. Although I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they don't grade it particularly strict. If they graded it as if it was a test answer in law school, no way over 50% of people pass.

7/30/2010 9:29:49 AM

gah i know. it was awful. i didn't feel that anxious IN the test but i definitely felt nervous the entire week before.

i don't know if i'm a good test taker. law school exams, yea i was great. and i could do decent with moderate effort. college i did fantastic with no effort. this was just like...a whole different game!

Quote :

"But I know some really smart people who have now failed three times and they made it their lives studying for the Bar"

oh god. i haven't met one of those yet and i don't care to haha. i like my little bubble of failures that passed on the second try

luckily most of the people from my school weren't freaking during lunch, which was good cause we all were in this one building together since our school got us lunch. there were a couple but i just walked away from them.

Quote :

"Although I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they don't grade it particularly strict. "

for serious? that is good to know. i was thinking the other way around. if it was a law school exam i KNOW i wouldn't fail because there would be a huge curve and i'd at least get a C. is that how this is??? haha wishful thinking. gosh i just really don't want my letter. i dread that day :/

but yea, if i failed this time, and study hard next time and still fail...that is when i'll probably highly consider giving up and just do something else with my degree that doesn't require bar passage.

[Edited on July 30, 2010 at 9:48 AM. Reason : .]

7/30/2010 9:47:26 AM

so it looks like you ^ went to elon? all i know is the girl behind me just graduated from elon and she finished every section so fast it was unbelievable. i was writing during the essay sections almost the entire time and i basically took all but about 15 mins on both MBE sections and she was out like an hour early. i just don't know how some people finish as fast as they do.

and i might have to disagree with jbrick, i think it's graded a little differently up here in NC than in SC. they told us in SC that the bar examiners really were looking to pass people and would try to give us as many points as possible on each essay, but in NC each answer is graded 1-10, so you basically only get as many points on that answer as that bar examiner thinks you deserve. and unfortunately, we don't have that whole do well enough on the MBE and you can fail one section of the essays rule in NC. if only we had that rule bc i know without a doubt i failed the sec. transaction question on the SC bar and i still passed. they had to have thrown that question out for me.

basically, just try not to completely stress yourself out over the next month waiting for results. and good luck finding a job.

[Edited on July 30, 2010 at 11:02 AM. Reason : asdfads]

7/30/2010 11:01:34 AM

Quote :

"and i might have to disagree with jbrick, i think it's graded a little differently up here in NC than in SC."

Part of my reasoning for saying that is that I feel like I could have failed every section. I know I did better in some sections than others, but I feel like if they graded it as tough as a law school exam (where there pretty much is a right answer or you have to get somewhere close to that answer to get a decent grade) then I wouldn't have passed any of the sections. I think Bar graders will give you extra points if you at least regurgitate information that is in relation to the question, but might be off point. Just for example, my Secured Transactions question was one of those "You got a check for your birthday, it was stolen and your name was crossed out, but then that person lost the check, the person who found it gave it to Person X for mowing a lawn, etc etc etc" And there is no way in hell I got even close to the right answer on that question, but I pretty much explained any possible outcome and that's the only way I passed that section. That, and there was an outrage over the Probate question and they HAD to have graded on a curve on that one or maybe 30% of the people would have passed.

Quote :

"they told us in SC that the bar examiners really were looking to pass people and would try to give us as many points as possible on each essay, but in NC each answer is graded 1-10, so you basically only get as many points on that answer as that bar examiner thinks you deserve."

The only difference being that ours is a 100 point scale and NC is a 10 point scale. Its the same method of grading. You probably have a slightly better chance in SC because there's a little leeway in getting that passing grade. A bar grader who is debating between a 69 and a 70 can nudge it a point to be favorable a lot easier than someone trying to figure out whether to give a 6 or a 7 on a 10 point scale. That is the only difference I see where passing in NC would be tougher.

Actually...I just looked it up, the NC Bar Exam is graded completely different. In SC, if you don't make a certain grade on the MBE, they don't even look at your essays. You've automatically failed. Even if you only miss it by a point. Then if you make that certain score, they'll grade your essays. If you fail one essay, you're done. Unless you get a really high MBE score, then you are allowed to fail one.

NC is just 40% MBE, 60% essay. In SC you could ace every single essay, then get a 69 on one...and fail (I had a friend who failed for the third time by passing every section except for one, and he failed with a 69...they show you your essay grades if you fail). And NC is two days, SC three. We have 6, 2-hour sections. I don't know how they divide ya'lls.

Either way, after comparing the two, it looks like a wash to me.

7/30/2010 11:24:48 AM

^^ yea elon. so you've taken SC, too?

there were a TON of people from my school that finished really fast, cause when i went to the building they reserved for lunch each day there were already like 10 people in there at least. and i finished early. i finished like 30 - 45 minutes early for the most part. except for the first section of the MBE which i thought was horrible.

i dunno, i just can't sit there and scrutinize over questions for that long. i am also a really fast reader. but if i don't know it, its not going to come to me so i try to narrow it down and then either answer it or if i just feel super uneasy, i'll skip. i didn't skip any on the 2nd half of the MBE, although i totally could have, but by that point i was like in the testing zone. the morning 1/2 was super rough for me. i felt so disorganized and unfocused.

and ugh the essays. i think i did HORRIBLE on 2. i can only hope the other ones i knew enough to pass, but i'm not feeling confident at all.

*SHRUG* nothing i can do now i guess

and holy crap 3 days of testing would be horrible.

ours is 2 days. 4 3 hour sections. of course you're there for like 9 hours total with check in and the insanely long excruciating lunch break.

NOT fun. i would like to pass but i'm not holding my breath. the worst part is all my worrying about failing isn't like sinking in for people that know me IRL. because i've ALWAYS been the person throughout college and law school that says "omg i totally failed" and then i get an A. but THIS TIME i'm serious. i seriously failed. but everyone is just like "oh whatever." i'm like the girl who cried wolf but this time there really is a wolf!

[Edited on July 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2010 1:07:53 PM

yea, but i actually passed in sc the first time unlike up here. but i didn't take a bar prep course last summer, just used somone's old materials. took barbri this summer so i hope it helped.

ok you gotta tell me which two you think you did horrible on since you seem so convinved of it. i think the corps. ? was the only one i genuinely didn't know and basically guessed on. civ pro was also kind of hard i thought since they tested post-trial and most people focus on pre-trial. and i know i got one part of the ev. essay wrong, the no contest plea. i also am pretty certain i mislabeled the future interest in the property ?. the only one i feel completely confident in though was the crim ? on homicide. i really don't know what else i could have written for that one,

7/30/2010 1:27:18 PM

PM SENT!

7/30/2010 6:09:35 PM

Anyone else taking the MPRE next Friday?

7/30/2010 8:39:48 PM

i was GOING to. but now i'm taking it in the fall. i couldn't handle rolling from the bar into the MPRE. even though at first i was like, it will be easy because PR will be fresh in my mind. then i was like, tooooo much testing all at once.

so the fall it is.

GOOD LUCK

7/30/2010 10:33:46 PM

got my first schedule, looks like this

Quote :

"Mon Torts 10am-11am Procedure 1pm-2pm Property 2:15pm-3:45pm Tue Legal Method 8:30am-10:30am Contracts 11am-12pm Wed Torts 10am-11am Procedure 1pm-2pm Property 2:15pm-3:45pm Thur Legal Method 8:30am-10:30am Contracts 11am-12pm Legal Research 1pm-2pm Fri Torts 10am-11am Procedure 1pm-2pm"

so I think i'm going to take a 7am train from Raleigh to Greensboro on MWF and then find some people to carpool with on TuTh, that way hopefully my car only gets the mileage a couple days a month.

already got my books too, i used BigWords, Chegg, and compared what Elon was charging for new/used/rentals so everything even the recommended reading was about $400 for 8 books so $50 each isn't too bad I don't think.

I plan on building/commissioning a DIY book scanner (probably the latter) so I'll have everything on my computer with searchable text and such.

8/4/2010 9:57:47 AM

You haven't ruled out the possibility of living in Greensboro?? Isn't it about an hour and a half drive??

I couldn't imagine living that far away from law school. How reliable are trains??

8/4/2010 10:06:07 AM

i know a couple of people that lived in raleigh/durham/chapel hill and commuted to elon. i don't know how they did it but they did. NONE of them did it all 3 years though.

is there something keeping you from living IN greensboro? or even burlington?

just keep in mind commuting is something that can have an impact on your grades (negative impact, that is). also there is MUCH more that you need to be at the law school for than just class - especially 1L year. you are also going to miss all the nights out with your classmates/professors and such and functions with them, which i would advise against. plus the library...kind of useful and necessary.

and i would be worried about the reliability of trains as well. just because for your 1L classes, arriving late might not be an option. you will get counted off, yelled at and perhaps not even let in the classroom.

the people i know that commuted did so 2 and/or 3L year via carpool.

some of the married folks shared apartments during the week in greensboro and then went to raleigh/durham/chapel hill (one even to asheville) on the weekends.

i know it is probably too late now, but for your 1L year it is just super important to be near the school. i don't know anyone that commuted that year. if you have a serious reason why you need to be in raleigh, then i guess stay. otherwise, i wouldn't want to put my grades and getting to know classmates and professors at risk.

[Edited on August 4, 2010 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

8/4/2010 1:25:07 PM

I agree with what ^ and ^^ have said. You WILL be miserable commuting. I went from Chapel Hill to Greensboro for work the summer after my 1L year. That was bad enough. Your grades will suffer and you will get burned out. I know you want to live with your SO (at least I think that's what you've said), but it has to be REALLY worth it, and not just from a monetary perspective. There are plenty of cheap rental options. But not being able to camp out in the library when you need to, and wasting 3 hours a day on drive time during exam week is going to end up biting you in the ass.

8/4/2010 2:01:03 PM

Ive been looking and i may continue to look in greensboro but nooone yet has responded to any ads ive made or replied to for rental purposes. Ive got a set budget to work with and i cant go over. Period. If someone knows a better way to look ill listen but when i tell people i wont split utilities halfway or go over 3oo for any reason that usually endd the convo. Im used to 8o hour workweeks and driving for 12 hrs a day so maybe im just not as miserable in the same situation. And i never said my car wouldnt stay in greensboro making late nights at the library possible. And im not going to make new friends so im not really worried about that aspect. Even if i had a place id try and be with my wife and best friends in raleigh as much as i can.

8/4/2010 4:07:33 PM

Quote :

"And im not going to make new friends so im not really worried about that aspect."

That's not a good way to look at things.

Trust me, I probably couldn't stand "law school" kids as much as anyone (except for khdwacal), but you cannot go in there with that mentality. These are going to be your peers for the rest of your career. Even the married students were extremely social and made sure to try and make as many friends as possible. Heck, I wouldn't have my job now if I wasn't a little tolerant with this one girl I couldn't stand. I put up with her and hung out a couple times and she helped get me a job two years later.

These are going to be attorneys you will be working with and judges who will be presiding over you for the next 25+ years...so you better go in and "make new friends."

8/4/2010 4:16:12 PM

^ exactly. i hated "law school kids" too. lol. and as much hate as i have, i actually have some pretty good friends from law school. i just like to whine

its not really about making friends, but it doesn't hurt to have one or two in your class. what if something happens and you need notes? what if you want to study with people? you can't completely shut everyone out. i mean, you can but good luck with that. and like jbrick said, that isn't reality or how the career field works. Elon (and i'm sure other schools) constantly have networking events. its great to meet people and connect not with your peers and professors, too. and they bring in outside attorneys and judges from the local area. and you'll have a preceptor that you share with other students that you'll meet with regularly. isolating yourself is a mistake. and thats fine if you want to rationalize it and hang out with your friends in raleigh, great - i spent my fair share in raleigh on the weekends with my friends and SO but i also spent MORE time with people in my school. if i didn't, i'd be totally screwed. and that is true for the married people in my class as well. they have a group for married people and people with SOs. SOs are always included in events. like jbrick said, the people who were married, much older, with kids were ALWAYS social as well.

you are shunning the advice of people who HAVE BEEN THROUGH law school and are currently going through it. so i think we have an idea of what to expect and what has to be done if you want to do well and survive.

it doesn't matter if you are used to 8 hour work days and driving 12 hours a day. you weren't getting graded in a place where grades matter. that is fine if driving normally isn't miserable for you, but it has the potential to seriously impact your schoolwork whether you like it or not. being married will impact your schoolwork whether you like it or not. we are just trying to help you here.

and i don't understand why you would go to a school in another city if you couldn't afford to live there?? why wouldn't you split utilities half way? wtf? did you not take out any loans? is $300 a month really a realistic budget? it seems like you need to live a little more in reality-ville. and perhaps should have worked harder on figuring out these issues before august.

and yes, there is a better way to find a place than scouring the internet or posting your own ads: DRIVE TO GREENSBORO AND LOOK AND ASK AROUND. talk to people face to face at apartment complexes. if you drive down elm street right now you will see SEVERAL places with for rent signs. that is how i found my place, that is how others have found places.

we aren't trying to be mean, but we've done this. we are just trying to help. the less obligations and stresses you have, the better. even a relationship (and definitely marriage) is going to be a strain on your studies. commuting and isolating yourself from your peers and the school during your first year (like i said, i know several people who did it 2L or 3L year, it was still a strain, though) just does not seem like an even remotely smart option. hopefully you prove us all wrong, but we're trying to give advice from the other side. i know you are the super optimist, but a reality check is needed. being optimistic is great and there isn't anything wrong with that, but completely shutting out reality is going to leave you wide open for getting your ass kicked like a fat kid on the playground.

[Edited on August 4, 2010 at 5:14 PM. Reason : .]

8/4/2010 5:09:53 PM

Another option--rent a room from an older couple. A lot of older people in Greensboro will have a room above their garage or something that you can rent out. Tends to be fairly cheap, and they want someone who is going to keep to themselves and be quiet, and chances are they won't ask you to split the utilities. Check out the News & Record for those.

8/4/2010 6:05:22 PM

First of all i havent shunned anyones ideas or said they were wrong but im going to try something different in a trial basis and see if it works for me. Ive been told i cant or shouldnt my whole life and its done nothing but encourage me further. When it bites me in the ass ill be the first to admit it but i just see a challenge that im looking forward to crushing right now.

8/4/2010 6:20:55 PM

Quote :

"i just see a challenge that im looking forward to crushing right no"

well just stay motivated then! hopefully you can keep the motivation up. i just wouldn't want to do anything on a "trial basis" in law school especially not your first semester and first year. obviously it is your choice! and it CAN be done, its just going to be a lot harder than the alternative. which you seem to understand, i think! its just with the commuting the extra 3 hours a day you spend doing that could be 3 hours you'd spend on work or decompressing after class, i think that is the MAJOR bottom line here and something to consider. your time management is going to have to be beyond excellent. and honestly, the fact that you are commuting could translate into less time spent with the wife even though you'll be living with her. just cause of the amount of reading and studying you'll be doing.

good thing is since you're in the cameron village area you're close to the cameron village library (which closes super early, but yay weekends) AND the ncsu library which is open to the public to a certain point in the day. so you at least have access to those places. w/o legal books and reference help but i mean...it gives you a study environment and a place to study outside of your apartment.

^^ good idea!!

8/4/2010 7:46:11 PM

^^^ thats exactly what im looking for and ive made several classified ads saying so. wont be there on weekends, very quiet and studious, no other people over. ive literally gotten NO replies. i plan on actually going huntin orientation week in person.

also im still confused why 3 hours studying on a train is time not well spent. additionally ill have about an hour after class to hop on the train home and an hour and half before class each day to get into the library. if im not spending it doing what i need to do then thats on me, not the schedule. not to mention 2 hrs between my first and second class MWF. there is literally 6 hours each day I can study taking the train, 3 with easy library access.

8/4/2010 8:50:58 PM

Fall schedule

Conflict of Laws MR 11-12, T 10-11
Trusts & Estates MW 230-4
Technology Licensing Agreements T 6-8
Transactions Involving Patent Rights R 9-11
Copyright TWF 11-12
Ethics in Litigation M 6-8

8/4/2010 10:47:50 PM

^^why don't you just go to Campbell or UNC/Duke if you want to stay in Raleigh that bad?

8/5/2010 1:48:48 AM

^^Look into getting tapes as well. There were a decent amount of kids in law school who had long distance relationships, and they would always talk about listening to study guides on tapes while visiting their significant other and said they worked well (I would personally drive off a bridge if I listened to a Civ Pro study guide on tape).

You're also not addressing the social aspect of law school. You cannot ignore that. Shutting yourself off in law school is a bad idea.

Also...what's the story on the reliability of trains?? Honest question, because I have no idea.

8/5/2010 8:15:12 AM

Quote :

"^^why don't you just go to Campbell or UNC/Duke if you want to stay in Raleigh that bad?"

Quote :

"......"

8/5/2010 11:06:57 AM

I don't think he got into those schools. You're kinda limited to where you actually get in.

8/5/2010 11:12:39 AM

maybe my post wasn't clear. it was supposed to represent "did you really ask that? really?"

8/5/2010 11:32:39 AM

As an attorney, I probably should have figured that out.

8/5/2010 12:05:02 PM