i'm with Str8Foolish

if you don't think that the israelites should be eradicated, then you're an uninformed war-mongering piece of shit.




if you don't support this, FUCK YOU!!!!!!

6/17/2009 6:31:31 PM

!

6/17/2009 6:31:32 PM

Quote :

"Be, be, 'fore we came to this country We were kings and queens, never porch monkeys It was empires in Africa called Kush Timbuktu, where every race came to get books To learn from black teachers who taught Greeks and Romans Asian Arabs and gave them gold when Gold was converted to money it all changed Money then became empowerment for Europeans The Persian military invaded They learned about the gold, the teachings and everything sacred Africa was almost robbed naked Slavery was money, so they began making slave ships Egypt was the place that Alexander the Great went He was so shocked at the mountains with black faces Shot up they nose to impose what basically Still goes on today, you see? If the truth is told, the youth can grow They learn to survive until they gain control Nobody says you have to be gangstas, hoes Read more learn more, change the globe Ghetto children, do your thing Hold your head up, little man, you're a king Young Prince thats when you get your wedding ring Your man is saying "She's my queen" "

6/17/2009 6:31:55 PM

Quote :

"i'm with Str8Foolish if you don't think that the israelites should be eradicated, then you're an uninformed war-mongering piece of shit. if you don't support this, FUCK YOU!!!!!!"

Support of Israel IS support of this, how fucking stupid are you?

6/17/2009 6:33:24 PM

ha bobbydigital is with str8foolish

is bobby also with child?

6/17/2009 6:34:17 PM

^^ don't backpedal now, fucker.

6/17/2009 6:35:27 PM

Imagine asking an Israeli child the history of his country and its great achievements.

They basically reconstructed Nazi-ism except run by a different master race, aimed at a different inferior race, and they didn't even build the war machine themselves. It's on loan from America... or rather, it's a permanent gift.

I'll give them Saharon Shelah, but other than that...

Quote :

"^^ don't backpedal now, fucker."

It's not a backpedal. If you don't see support of Israel as support of a holocaust you're fucking blind.

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 6:36 PM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 6:36:05 PM

Yo waddup Godwin

6/17/2009 6:37:02 PM

Hmm does pointing out actual instances of rampant, violent nationalism and fascism count for Godwin's Law?

6/17/2009 6:39:09 PM

Quote :

"do you think Israel does or does not have the right to exist?""

It depends.

If they proceed as usual, without seeking peace and avoiding war, then No, they do not.

If they proceed by seeking peace, then Yes, they do.

The United States harps about "terrorism" and "states" that support terror... of any kind! Any rational person can see that the actions taken by Israel are exactly that, but these actions are defended by The United States as "Israel's right to defend its sovereignty." Think about it. Where do you draw the line with that logic? How can you honestly defend a state that is defending its territory... by gaining new territory?! You know who that sounds like don't you?

Here, I'll help you out:

6/17/2009 6:39:20 PM

Quote :

"Do the math."

Sure, no problem

550 billion / 14 trillion = 0.0392857143
13 billion / 162 billion = 0.0802469136

Quote :

"They spend almost 10% of their GDP on "defense", more than triple that of the US"

Hmmm, 3.9% * 3 > 8%?

FAIL

This is also using this recent year GDP numbers which has many years of consumption pulled forward via the home ATM to artificially inflate the GDP.

If you go back to 2005, before the housing bubble was in full swing, you'll see that the defense spending between the US and Israel is even closer

(here is a link, you know, supporting evidence, not just my pompous fucking mouth popping off like yours)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_exp_per_of_gdp-military-expenditures-percent-of-gdp&date=2005

Furthermore, if you consider all the off balance sheet spending the US does on defense (estimates as high as 50% more), the gap goes to zero.

So your entire point is dead. Try again.

6/17/2009 6:39:40 PM

I'm going to interject only a couple of points into this thread, because I really don't like dragging Soap Box into Chit Chat.

1) There is a significant difference between oppression and systematic eradication.
2) Denying that Israel has a "right to exist" is not going to help anybody.

6/17/2009 6:46:00 PM

Quote :

"1) There is a significant difference between oppression and systematic eradication."

The difference is speed. At this slow pace of settlement destruction and rebuilding, this type of terrorism is actually no different in philosophy. The evil deeds are simply more refined in nature, and occur at a much slower rate.

Quote :

"2) Denying that Israel has a "right to exist" is not going to help anybody."

...and how many more innocent people have to die until the "right to exist" and "a lasting peace" can coincide? Something must be done. Something that either saves Israel from itself, or stops the bloodshed, despite the flag. We are supporting terror dude.

6/17/2009 6:57:30 PM

Israel has a right to exist.
Israel is the victim.
Israel is not the aggressor.
Israel is a very moral and courageous country.
Isreal didn't steal any land.
Israelis didn't kick out Arabs from their homes and lands.
Israeli Army is the "most moral" army in the world (either Sharon or Olmert said it a few years back after the carnage of Gaza)

Are these statements true?

Let's see what Israel's own founders and leaders say and believe, shall we? I was going to bold the best bits... but then I would be bolding almost 75%. Unbelievable stuff.


David Ben Gurion
Prime Minister of Israel
1949 - 1954,
1955 - 1963

Quote :

""We must expel Arabs and take their places.""

Quote :

""There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?""

Quote :

""Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.""

Quote :

""Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.""

Quote :

""If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.""

Golda Meir
Prime Minister of Israel
1969 - 1974

Quote :

""There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist.""

Quote :

""How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to.""

Quote :

""This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy.""

Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel
1974 - 1977,
1992 - 1995

Quote :

""We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!""

Quote :

""[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat.""

Yizhak Shamir
Prime Minister of Israel
1983 - 1984,
1986 - 1992

Quote :

""The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple.""

Quote :

""(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." -- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988"

Benjamin Netanyahu
Prime Minister of Israel
1996 - 1999

Quote :

""Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories." -- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989."

Ehud Barak
Prime Minister of Israel
1999 - 2001

Quote :

""I would have joined a terrorist organization." -- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian."

Ariel Sharon
Prime Minister of Israel
2001 - 2006

Quote :

""It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." -- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998."

Quote :

""Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them." -- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998."

Quote :

""Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial.""

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM. Reason : ]

6/17/2009 7:23:57 PM

Oh, what the hell, I was trying to do homework but it bores me.

To Stimwalt--

I'm not sure I follow your first point, mainly since I don't see how current Israeli policy is every going to eradicate anybody. If that's their intent, they've failed horribly at it: there are five times as many Palestinians in the territory today than there were in 1949. Since 1970 the ratio of Arabs to Jews has increased steadily.

I'm not defending the oppression -- I wouldn't have used that word for it otherwise. But there is a pretty clear distinction between a system that allows a population to grow and a system that intends to eradicate or expel that population.

As to your question of "how many more innocent people have to die," well, no matter what happens, that answer is "a lot." If we keep the status quo, people will keep being killed and oppressed. If every other country in the world abandons the concept of "Israel's right to exist," then people will keep being killed and oppressed. I suspect that latter course would result in open war, presumably involving much more death and followed shortly by the harsh oppression of whoever loses.

Now, onto 0EPII1 --

As to your initial list of statements, I find the first to be beside the point, as I was trying to explain to Stimwalt. It's dubious whether nations of the "right" to do much of anything, including exist. I'm no more convinced that Palestine has the right to exist as an Arab/Muslim state than I am that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state or that anything has the right to exist as any kind of state in that or any other region. In principle I agree that people have rights; as a matter of practicality, if you gave both sides in the conflict equal rights in the same state, I think you'd quickly have two parties that are completely and violently at odds with one another -- pretty much the same thing you have now, as a matter of fact. This is not to say that I think one side should have fewer rights; I merely think that both sides should have their own state, and more importantly, that both sides would be better off in that situation.

I disagree with most of the rest of your statements, which is to say, I agree with you that they are false. The exceptions are:

1) I do think that the Israelis have often shown quite a bit of courage, if not always a great deal of morality. They put themselves in harms way enough to cross straight over from "courageous" and into "foolhardy."
2) I think that there have been times when Israel was a "victim" rather than an "aggressor." Many of the occupied territories are occupied because of wars Israel did not start. Maybe they would have taken them anyway; we'll never know, because they were attacked and given an excuse.

I won't bother with your extensive list of quotes, because we all know full well that I could find equally reprehensible things said by Arab and Muslim leaders throughout that period. And I'm sure that in both cases we could each find issues with context and perhaps translation that take some of the edge off our respective quotes.

---

Stimwalt said "Something must be done" and I forgot to respond to this. I agree wholeheartedly. I think the best course of action is for America to make a credible threat to Israel that if they don't start playing ball we're going to cut off all of our aid (and UN support) and place sanctions besides. I think enough Israelis realize who signs their checks that it will tilt the balance in favor of a much more agreeable solution.

Meanwhile, we should tell the Palestinians that cooperation will mean a great largesse of American aid -- hey, bribes worked to get the Egyptians to calm down. We should also tell them that failure to cooperate in the face of good-faith Israeli efforts will mean more bombs and guns for the Israelis.

Give both sides a very big carrot and a very big stick to consider, as opposed to giving Israel all the carrots and Palestine all the sticks.

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 7:52 PM. Reason : ]

6/17/2009 7:47:09 PM

There's some pathetic propaganda and rhetoric here. Keep comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. It really makes people want to take you seriously.

Quote :

" I did the project in college, faggot, and at least I had at the balls to offer an opinion...an educated opinion at that unlike you, who just stand outside the whole thing, pretending to know it all but offering no opinion whatsoever except to say "there is a history here that predates history" (OMG REALLY? Very insightful ) and "Whole lot of ignorance in this thread." (i.e. "I'm too much of a bitch to take part in the argument, so I'll just stand outside and throw a general charge of 'ignorant' at everyone.") fuck your mother "

You stand outside the whole thing as well. You don't live there. The ignorance statement wasn't in reference to you, but the fact that you think because you did a project (OH IN COLLEGE HOLY SHIT) while sitting your ass in front of some books doesn't give you any real perspective on the situation. The only say you have is if you believe the US should be involved, the fact that you are coming up with a victim/perpetrator over a history of thousands of years is pathetic.

If anyone should be compared to a Nazi, Str8Foolish is about the equivalent of Goebbels with all the propaganda.

6/17/2009 8:03:00 PM

Anybody with even a modicum of knowledge about the oppression going on in Gaza would immediately draw a parallel to a Jewish ghetto, except they are likely treated worse.

80% unemployment rates (gee I wonder why), the inability for practically anybody to leave (including students and professors with bright academic opportunities who are forced to pass them up to stay in Gaza), and the inability of any needed resources to come in (concrete and steel for the reconstruction of buildings that currently sit around in rubble), the list goes on

Even Palestinian hospitals are subject to the 8-10 hour rolling blackouts, and people have to carry their loved ones up the stairs to their rooms since the elevators don't work. Who the fuck would endorse collective punishment like this? Oh, that's right, imperialists.

6/17/2009 8:06:10 PM

Oh I see. The Nazis gassed and burned alive killing millions in the process of genocide.

Israel has kept the Palestinians from using their elevators.

That's pretty much on par.


footnote.

I think both are responsible for unacceptable acts and that a separate Palestinian state should be established. Continuing to perpetuate this situation with propaganda is a GREAT way to go about it though!

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 8:12 PM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 8:09:27 PM

Elevators in a hospital. Keep in mind this means that vital medical equipment can't be used either. People who require treatment basically sit around while their conditions get worse, all because they can't leave for treatment, and because treatment won't be allowed in Gaza (due to strangling resources and denying admittance).

It's a clear parallel to ghettos, not gas-chambers you fucking idiot. If you think that this shit is remotely justified because it's NOT a gas chamber, you're too far gone to understand any of the situation anyway. So you may as well jack-off in front of your mindless consumerist entertainment and ignore the situation altogether.

Palestinians in Gaza are forced to live in sub-human conditions, in complete humiliation with a lack of dignity.

Edit: ^ What exactly is propaganda in this thread except for the images that I posted, clearly as a troll?

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 8:14 PM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 8:13:03 PM

This thread went and got soapbox disease already.

6/17/2009 8:15:15 PM

The potential to save Israel has already been realized, but at a much smaller scale. There can be peace in the middle east. We have already planted the seeds:

Quote :

"Camp David Accords - Peace agreement reached between Israel and Egypt, the first between Israel and an Arab neighbor, signed March, 1979. Called for normalization of relations and return of the Sinai to Egypt."

The reality is, the world is dealing with a unique race of people, that believe since they are "Jewish" they are allowed to land-grab through bloodshed, as much and as fast as possible. A certain ally of Israel could bring peace, by stopping Israel's marches into evil. Hint - The United States:

Quote :

"Religious Zionism - Belief that Jewish nationalism is religious as well as political goal, to be realized as Jewish homeland in Eretz Yisrael based on "Torah v'avodah," a synthesis of Torah with practical labor."

So I guess what I'm trying to say is... Yes, Israel is a piece of shit... but it doesn't have to be. We can fix this epic problem, but we cannot fix it by sitting back, and doing nothing. The United States can make a difference, and I think that's why so many people hate us, because we haven't done enough to stop it.

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 8:22 PM. Reason : -]

6/17/2009 8:17:45 PM

it has shit posters disease and its cure is you staying out of the thread ^^

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 8:18 PM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 8:17:49 PM

No I understand the situation. By aligning Israel with Nazi extermination of others, you clearly don't understand shit.

And what are you doing that's constructive? Stop whining on a fucking message board.

Quote :

"What exactly is propaganda in this thread except for the images that I posted, clearly as a troll? "

Exactly you are a fucking troll.

6/17/2009 8:18:11 PM

Quote :

"Exactly you are a fucking troll."

While some of my rhetoric may be clear trolling (keep in mind we're in chit chat and I don't have the patience to pretend the person I'm talking to deserves respect), my criticism is still valid.

Quote :

"No I understand the situation. By aligning Israel with Nazi extermination of others, you clearly don't understand shit."

It's a pretty clear master-race land-grab to me that dehumanizes and humiliates a "lesser race", dooming them to live in utter squalor. What else would you compare this to other than the expansion of the US westward?

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 8:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 8:19:15 PM

There's a fine line between any criticism of yours that may be accepted as valid and rhetoric.

Quote :

"(keep in mind we're in chit chat and I don't have the patience to pretend the person I'm talking to deserves respect)"

Another reason it's propaganda. Why are you peddling this shit in Chit Chat anyway? So some human beings deserve respect, but only the ones that live in Gaza.

I think I'm done with this shit. Pathetic.

6/17/2009 8:23:02 PM

Quote :

"Why are you peddling this shit in Chit Chat anyway?"

Because it's unbelievably easy to yank the chains of a bunch of bigots in here, and it's fun. I barely have to put anything into it and I get a lot of bites.

Quote :

"So some human beings deserve respect, but only the ones that live in Gaza."

Yes clearly this is what I said. I'm embarrassed that people with minds as poor as yours are affiliated in any way with NCSU.

6/17/2009 8:25:30 PM

Quote :

"It's a pretty clear master-race land-grab to me that dehumanizes and humiliates a "lesser race", dooming them to live in utter squalor. What else would you compare this to other than the expansion of the US westward?"

Pretty much every nation's expansion ever.

But the fact that you think Israel, the US, and the Nazis are the only people capable of this says a lot about your ideology.

6/17/2009 9:13:13 PM

Quote :

"it has shit posters disease and its cure is you staying out of the thread ^^"

Ah I see what's going on here.

6/17/2009 9:21:46 PM

Quote :

"the fact that you think because you did a project (OH IN COLLEGE HOLY SHIT) while sitting your ass in front of some books doesn't give you any real perspective on the situation."

OK, fair enough. But "real perspective" hasn't seemed to help much either. The Israelis and the Palestinians all have "real perspective," and the result has been less than ideal. It's unrealistic to ask that everyone involved in policy decisions about the Middle East be from the Middle East.

Quote :

"Anybody with even a modicum of knowledge about the oppression going on in Gaza would immediately draw a parallel to a Jewish ghetto, except they are likely treated worse."

Now this is just silly. Some of the Jewish ghettos were burned to the ground with everyone inside, and they were universally just stop-gap measures for the nazis to finish their ultimate plan of extermination. Palestinians do get out of Gaza and the West Bank to other countries (though perhaps not as many as should), and they don't have to be smuggled by Swedes or anything.

Quote :

"Who the fuck would endorse collective punishment like this?"

Most people dealing with a hostile population would, at least at a certain point. Palestinian militants certainly don't seem to discriminate between different types of Israelis. The just and unjust alike get blown up -- on both sides.

Quote :

"a unique race of people, that believe since they are "Jewish" they are allowed to land-grab through bloodshed, as much and as fast as possible."

This isn't necessarily so. A unique race? Yes, as all races are. If two races were identical, they'd be the same fucking race. But the issue isn't that they think they're entitled to a land grab because they're special -- they think they need a land grab to survive as a state. Now, you may say, "They don't need to be their own state," but historically, that hasn't worked out too well.

Now I will concede that there are hardline religious elements who believe that they have God's own command to take shit over, but they aren't the majority. Every culture has elements that believe God wants them to take shit over.

6/17/2009 9:42:20 PM

Quote :

"do you think Israel does or does not have the right to exist?"

think it has the right to exist in europe where it happened

6/17/2009 9:48:24 PM

The over-use of the term "Nazi" has to be the most cliche form political speech there is. And that is about as close as I'm getting to this thread.

6/17/2009 11:53:48 PM

fucking nazi fucks

6/17/2009 11:54:58 PM

Quote :

"Now this is just silly. Some of the Jewish ghettos were burned to the ground with everyone inside, and they were universally just stop-gap measures for the nazis to finish their ultimate plan of extermination. Palestinians do get out of Gaza and the West Bank to other countries (though perhaps not as many as should), and they don't have to be smuggled by Swedes or anything."

(1) Palestinians are rarely allowed to leave. Even ones that could be considered to be on "good behavior" or better elements of society aren't allowed out (profs and students).

(2) How exactly would you consider the two different? There's rubble all around Gaza and they aren't allowed to import the materials to rebuild. There is 80% unemployment.

6/18/2009 12:21:13 AM

im confused though. which side is the biggots again. seriously help me

6/18/2009 12:40:35 AM

for page 3

Quote :

"Every time the Palestinians try to get their way through force, they lose more. It happened in 1948, it happened again in 1967, and it has happened repeatedly in the intifadas of the last 2 decades. Maybe they should learn how to protest and negotiate without resorting to violence. Or at least learn how to fight without getting their asses handed to them every fucking time. Fucking bitch-ass rock-throwing pansies."

6/18/2009 1:30:33 AM

^^1) Well then they're in at least slightly better shape than the ghetto Jews who only got to leave on cattle cars, aren't they?

2) You seem to want to stop the comparison halfway through at "ghettos," but that strikes me as disingenuous. The fact is, the Palestinians are in a bad spot, but it isn't a spot that's part of a system that leads inexorably to their slaughter.

The fact is, there was nothing that Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe could do to alleviate their predicament. They were slated for extermination from day one, and a heroic amount of ass kissing on their part would have only saved a few lives. If the Palestinians cease all their violence, then their situation will improve relatively quickly. It might not get to a level that's totally acceptable in modern times, but it won't be something that even you can claim is analogous to goddamn Nazi Germany.

But I agree that, as a practical matter, it's unrealistic to expect the Palestinians to cease all violence and turn into Ghandi-esque peaceful resisters. Of course, I'm also reasonable enough to understand that it's just as unrealistic to expect the same from the Israelis. So you don't expect either side to go all MLK, Jr. on us. You offer both sides incentives to play nice and you threaten both sides quite severely for failure to do so.

6/18/2009 1:33:23 AM

Quote :

" If you go back to 2005, before the housing bubble was in full swing, you'll see that the defense spending between the US and Israel is even closer ...blahblah... Furthermore, if you consider all the off balance sheet spending the US does on defense (estimates as high as 50% more), the gap goes to zero. So your entire point is dead. Try again. "

Okay, lets use YOUR numbers.

Israel spends DOUBLE the amount the US does, as a percent of their GDP (in 2005, it was still nearly double, even in "better times"). Wait, so you think that Israel DOESN'T have enormous amounts of off balance-sheet spending? That's just fucking silly. A significant amount of the money we lend them to purchase US arms is laundered and pushed to Israeli defense companies to further prop their own economy.

Their largest export is military armaments and components. Their largest industry, both domestic and foreign is military armaments and components. They import damn near all of their basic needs for food and energy. Without the perpetual military industrial complex, they can't even power their own country, much less feed themselves.

The US on the other hand, wouldn't have to turn off the lights to the nation, or put the population on food rations if our defense spending dried up. Because we have a balanced, sustainable, peace-time economy.

Dumbass.

6/18/2009 2:59:05 AM

i can understand why the palestinians would hate to not have control of their air space, but long as they didnt shoot rockets into israel, they wouldnt need to worry about it

6/18/2009 3:01:26 AM

Quote :

"Dumbass."

I'm shocked, I really am. You've never been known to get completely, utterly, flawless victory, babality destroyed on some point yet somehow continue to think you are right. You've never been known to just make shit up and act like its an obvious fucking fact. For example

Quote :

"Wait, so you think that Israel DOESN'T have enormous amounts of off balance-sheet spending?"

WHY WOULD THEY? A nation that is frank and open about their willingness to bomb and defend itself whenever it needs and all its citizens know that arming and defending itself is a key piece of their budget, why would they? I don't know, you certainly don't know, and for fucking sure it isn't common knowledge. That's just fucking silly.

Quote :

"A significant amount of the money we lend them to purchase US arms is laundered and pushed to Israeli defense companies to further prop their own economy"

Ok? Doubtful this goes towards their GDP. So you can blame the US for the skew in there defense spending as a percent of their GDP.

Quote :

"Their largest industry, both domestic and foreign is military armaments and components."

Not per wikipedia.

Quote :

"Their largest export is military armaments and components. "

Nope
http://www.bankisrael.gov.il/deptdata/mehkar/indic/eng_c04.htm
Wait, lemme guess, this is where you're going to tell me all those exports are military exports. lol
What else would you rather them do? Should they haul in quadrillion tons of soil and start a new agricultural industry in the dessert?

Quote :

"They import damn near all of their basic needs for food and energy."

No shit, they're resource poor. I know another country at the mercy of the world because of their energy needs.

Quote :

"Without the perpetual military industrial complex, they can't even power their own country, much less feed themselves"

I say gg Israel and feeding their people.

Quote :

"The US on the other hand, wouldn't have to turn off the lights to the nation, or put the population on food rations if our defense spending dried up."

No fucking shit if our defense spending "dried up" would we have to turn the lights off, WE'D HAVE MORE MONEY FOR THE LIGHTS. Do you even read what you write? Or are you so fucking arrogant that you assume if it was a thought that occurred in your little pea brain then it must be irrefutable?

You're fucking pathetic. Stick to buying flashy cars to make up for your cock size since you're clearly better at that than what you're trying to do in this thread.

6/18/2009 7:49:56 AM

this thread has many words

6/18/2009 8:00:16 AM

Quote :

"this thread has many hateful words"

6/18/2009 8:44:36 AM

Quote :

"The fact is, the Palestinians are in a bad spot, but it isn't a spot that's part of a system that leads inexorably to their slaughter."

That depends on how close they are to the fences that arbitrarily get built around illegal settlements (and whether or not your farm is there). It also depends on whether or not you live in a place that Israelis suddenly want to settle on.

It also depends if you're in the area when they roll through in tanks, or there's an air raid, or ... etc etc etc.

Just because Palestinians get killed with conventional military warfare doesn't make it morally different.

6/18/2009 8:45:07 AM

Quote :

"for page 3 Quote : "Every time the Palestinians try to get their way through force, they lose more. It happened in 1948, it happened again in 1967, and it has happened repeatedly in the intifadas of the last 2 decades. Maybe they should learn how to protest and negotiate without resorting to violence. Or at least learn how to fight without getting their asses handed to them every fucking time. Fucking bitch-ass rock-throwing pansies.""

This is sheer misinformation as addressed on the previous two pages of this thread. 1. To say that the palestinians try to get their way through force and lose more is disingenuous. Palestine was provoked in 1948 by an israeli terrorist group, Yishuv, and then Egypt was provoked in 1967 which lead to the 6day war in which Israel attacked first without ever being attacked. The only legitimate truth in your statement is that Palestine lost land, which isn't surprising since that was the intent of israel in the provocation. 2. There have been numerous occasions under which Palestine was ready to finally sign a treaty that was prepared by palestine, israel and third parties and then israel backed out for no reason other than they didn't want to give up their imperialist agenda. The Taba summits in 2001 are the most recent that come to mind.

For GrumpyGOP

Quote :

"The fact is, there was nothing that Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe could do to alleviate their predicament. They were slated for extermination from day one"

This is incorrect. Germany repeatedly stated that if the Jews were to leave the would not be harmed, however, many nations, including the united states chose to impose stricter (not more relaxed) immigration policies as to not be flooded with refugees. Elimination was not the preferred method from day 1, and the jewish had options.

Quote :

"If the Palestinians cease all their violence, then their situation will improve relatively quickly. It might not get to a level that's totally acceptable in modern times, but it won't be something that even you can claim is analogous to goddamn Nazi Germany. "

There is no way anyone can be certain of this. Given the abusive and oppressive natures of those around them the palestinians would be just as likely to be in more danger and worse situations than currently. just as if the jewish if they ceased their violence, if not more so.

Furthermore I do not find the slow and deliberate eradication of people to be any more humane than a quick and intentional extermination. The desired end goal is the same, and that is complete removal of a population by means where death is imminent.

Fail Boat

Quote :

"WHY WOULD THEY?"

Because every nation has figures off the books because that nation does not want all of their 'dirty laundry' and associations being aired nor do they feel they should be obligated to divulge all their military arsenal. Israel, in fact, is notorious for this which is why they operate under a principle of nuclear ambiguity. in many aspects it would be more reasonable for one to assume that israel has off sheet spending than the US. of course, you already know all this.

6/18/2009 9:36:15 AM

this thread has many hateful words

6/18/2009 9:54:55 AM

Quote :

"in many aspects it would be more reasonable for one to assume that israel has off sheet spending than the US. of course, you already know all this."

Which aspects? Regardless, we can toss out the off balance sheet aspect spending of both countries and Neon is still fail.

6/18/2009 9:55:52 AM

Quote :

"Furthermore I do not find the slow and deliberate eradication of people to be any more humane than a quick and intentional extermination. The desired end goal is the same, and that is complete removal of a population by means where death is imminent."

I don't understand this, death is imminent for everyone in the world if you're on a long time scale.

It's my understanding that Palestinian population is increasing in the area.

6/18/2009 3:46:41 PM

6/18/2009 3:50:44 PM

?

5/16/2021 7:19:18 AM

more than just a piece of shit

bUt iSraEL hAS a rIGhT tO dEfEnD iTsElf

5/16/2021 6:44:16 PM

gd OP was mad af

5/17/2021 8:12:01 PM