Georgia needs their version of the Mujahadeen

8/12/2008 12:04:07 AM

George Bush demands Russia respect and preserve Georgia's gov't and such militant behavior is not appropriate in the 21st century. Just like our invasion of Iraq right!

8/12/2008 12:57:05 AM

cold war 2 soon to be WWIII

8/12/2008 2:47:21 AM

fwiw, I dont remember georgia ignoring UN resolution after resolution. However, they certainly messed with the bull.

8/12/2008 9:09:53 AM

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080812/D92GN0280.html

Quote :

"Russia's Medvedev halts military action in Georgia Aug 12, 7:08 AM (ET) By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV (AP) Russian President Dmitry Medvedev makes a nationwide TV address from his Kremlin study on Tuesday. MOSCOW (AP) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev ordered a halt to military action in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks that took Russian forces deep into its small U.S.-allied neighbor in the Caucasus. Medvedev said on national television that the military had punished Georgia enough for its attack on South Ossetia. Georgia launched an offensive late Thursday to regain control over the separatist Georgian province, which has close ties to Russia. "The security of our peacekeepers and civilians has been restored," Medvedev said. "The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganized." "

That's what I thought. Who's your daddy?

[Edited on August 12, 2008 at 10:14 AM. Reason : -]

8/12/2008 10:13:40 AM

Im glad Russia had the sense to stop this before it escalates

8/12/2008 1:03:49 PM

according to the Georgians, Russia is still bombing them despite the cease fire.

8/12/2008 1:12:57 PM

Complete victory for the Russians; they've accomplished their goals. Drive the Georgians out of South Ossetia? Check. Break the back of the Georgian military? Check. Cast doubt on the democratically elected government? Check. Humiliate the West by publicly revealing in their impotence or apathy toward a third world nation that allied so closely with them? Bonus!

I suppose we can always get back at the Russians by finding another Serbian province that wants to break free...

8/12/2008 8:42:50 PM

Change their standing from sorta-friend to sorta-enemy of the West? Yeah...lets face it, there are 4 groups of opinions in the world that REALLY matter:
1 - The US
2 - Europe
3 - East Asia
4 - Russia
Losing some credibility with 2/4 in exchange for all of the gains? Bad Trade.

8/12/2008 9:13:09 PM

I wouldn't go as far to say that we are going to put Russia on enemy status as long as we all can see through this clearly and nothing else happens.

^I think that Europe has a better diplomatic voice than we do and basically we are there as enforcers in case things get out of control.

8/12/2008 9:39:59 PM

i think the average american could give a fuck less about this

8/12/2008 10:11:56 PM

Quote :

"i think the average american US gov't could give a fuck less about this"

Quote :

"i think the average american US gov't could give a fuck less about this"

Quote :

"i think the average american US gov't could give a fuck less about this"

Quote :

"i think the average american US gov't could give a fuck less about this"

Quote :

"i think the average american US gov't could give a fuck less about this"

Quote :

"i think the average american US gov't could give a fuck less about this"

8/12/2008 11:09:35 PM

well the gov is supposed to be by the people for the people so that sounds about right

8/12/2008 11:14:16 PM

except for when they wiretap my phones and prioritize big business lobbyists like the RIAA and Exxon over the American people

8/12/2008 11:44:59 PM

Quote :

" U.S. may seek to punish Russia for Georgia conflict"

WE'LL SHOW THEM!!!!


I am glad France and Germany decided not to boycott us for our "conflict" with Iraq. Oh that is right we punished them for not supporting our "liberation" of Iraq.

8/13/2008 12:31:11 AM

I think it was more the Oil for food scandal that pissed alot of people off, but carry on.

I heard some nut on the radio claiming that Bush put georgia up to this to help mccain in the election. There really is some liberal that blames bush for EVERYTHING. Not to mention them trying to bash mccain for wanting georgia into NATO, but fail to mention obama supported it also. Typical.

8/13/2008 12:47:38 AM

HUR,

Are you suggesting the US invasion of a country ruled by hateful dictator is morally equivalent to the Russia invasion of a county ruled by a democratically elected government (sovereignty whuh?)?

I didn't support the invasion of Iraq either, but aside from the fact that they are both military conflicts I can't see any parallels with the Russian invasion of Georgia.

[Edited on August 13, 2008 at 12:59 AM. Reason : ``]

8/13/2008 12:53:10 AM

Quote :

"hateful dictator"

If i took 10 minutes i could probably draw up a decent sized list of countries that are dictated by a despot ruler just as bad if not worse than Saddam.

Off the top of my head i can even throw out a handful who as a bonus present much greater threat to international peace then pre-invasion Iraq.

8/13/2008 1:12:27 AM

^ I don't remember saying otherwise. What I do remember is saying that the Russian invasion of Georgia does not parallel the US invasion of Iraq beyond the fact they are both military operations.

Your comment doesn't seem to address that point.

8/13/2008 7:55:09 AM

Wonder what's really going on there right now. Georgia says that Russia is still invading and attacking cities, ignoring the cease-fire, Russia claims it's just stationed outside some cities but it's sitting pretty.


I wonder if George Bush will be charged with appeasement if Russia claims more land.


What am I thinking, only liberals can be appeasers and flip floppers.

8/13/2008 9:14:12 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/13/georgia.russia7

Quote :

""People are fleeing, there is a mood of absolute panic. The idea there is a ceasefire is ridiculous," Luke Harding, the Guardian's correspondent, said."

Quote :

"The tanks had passed through the village of Rekha at about 11.20am local time. "Behind them (say eyewitnesses) is a whole column of irregulars who locals say are Chechens, Cossacks and Ossetians."

There ya have it, this is from a unbiased journalist, from the Guardian of all places (known to be left-wing in the UK). I like all the irregulars pooring in behind the Russian columns. What do you think they are doing there? Picking roses? They are there to loot, pillage, rape and kill.

Comparing what Russia is doing in Georgia and what we did in Iraq is a joke and people should be ashamed at making the comparison.

8/13/2008 9:29:44 AM

Quote :

"except for when they wiretap my phones and prioritize big business lobbyists like the RIAA and Exxon over the American people"

lol well people such as myself dont mind this

8/13/2008 9:36:35 AM

good synopsis of the whole thing, it's [words] so I'm not gonna quote it, but it's worth the read I think

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_georgian_war_and_balance_power

8/13/2008 10:59:00 AM

Quote :

"What I do remember is saying that the Russian invasion of Georgia does not parallel the US invasion of Iraq beyond the fact they are both military operations."

I agree. However I think Russia is using our Iraq preemptive strategy to justify their presence and response in Georgia. In their minds it is perfectly legitimate because they have "evidence" that the Georgian President has been engaging in genocide in S. Ossetia against Russian nationals.

If Russia is using our own protectionist military strategy than there are similarities to Iraq for us that we cannot deny (until all the facts are in of course). They may be in the right or in the wrong. Its really a cluster f***.

I really don't see how you can argue Russia wants regime change. And I can see how they may just want to destabilize Georgia w/o actively overthrowing them.

8/13/2008 11:55:04 AM

Russia has been attacking Georgian government computers, news outlets and commerce websites, they have been practicing for months, even attacking other countries such as Estonia.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1670

8/13/2008 12:03:34 PM

Quote :

"Are you suggesting the US invasion of a country ruled by hateful dictator is morally equivalent to the Russia invasion of a county ruled by a democratically elected government (sovereignty whuh?)?"

Depends on how many people suffer.

8/13/2008 1:11:54 PM

that article was a brilliant summation

8/13/2008 2:38:49 PM

Obama has called for a UN resolution.

I love it.

8/13/2008 2:59:09 PM

I hope the Russians don't use this:

Russia tests giant fuel-air bomb
The Russian air force has tested a giant fuel-air bomb which the military says is the biggest non-nuclear explosive device in the world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6990815.stm

And I hope the Russians love their children, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rk78eCIx4E

8/13/2008 5:05:55 PM

I think it's time we show the Russians we mean business. Our ground troops are certainly over-extended in Iraq and Afghanistan, but our air-to-air forces are useless in those two conflicts. Thus, we should move a couple squadrons of F-16s and a couple of squadrons of F-22s into our air bases in Turkey. As well, we should move some A-10s (air-to-ground, I know) there as well. If we can, we should move some Apaches there, too, but that would be a nice bonus. Finally, if we have any armored forces in Iraq that we can spare, we should park them on the Turkey/Georgia border.

As soon as the warthogs are in Turkey, we send russia a nice little letter which says the following:

Halt the advance of all ground forces in Georgia within 3 hours.
Have all ground forces in Georgia turn around and head North to Russia within 6 hours.
Have all ground forces OUT of Georgia in 24 hours.

Any ground forces still advancing towards Georgian cities after 3 hours will be destroyed by American aircraft.
Any ground forces not heading for the Russian border after 6 hours will be destroyed.
And, shocker, any ground forces still in Georgia after 24 hours will be destroyed.



That would put a swift end to Russia's aggression in Georgia pretty damn quickly. We might have to shoot down a couple Russian aircraft and destroy two or three tanks, but after that happens, Russia will see that we are not fucking around, and they will be tripping over themselves to get the hell out of the country.

8/13/2008 6:41:52 PM

i'd rather not get into The Cold War Part 2...not a big fan of wars with huge countries like Russia or China

8/13/2008 6:44:16 PM

^^

My hope is that you're trolling.

My fear is that you are not.

8/13/2008 6:48:35 PM

Well, we would only need to get involved in Georgia. There's no need to invade Russia, and certainly other European nations would get on board as well. Europe has a vested interest in keeping Russia at bay, as evidenced by France's efforts to mediate the situation. There would be no "Cold War 2."

8/13/2008 6:49:15 PM

Quote :

"We might have to shoot down a couple Russian aircraft and destroy two or three tanks, but after that happens, Russia will see that we are not fucking around, and they will be tripping over themselves to get the hell out of the country."

I have a funny feeling the Russians might not be as docile as you predict.

8/13/2008 6:58:04 PM

^ that's not a crazy thing to think at first, except that Russia is only doing what it is doing right now because it believes that we don't have the political will or military might to stop them. The ease with which we destroy those first few aircraft and tanks will immediately show Russia otherwise.

8/13/2008 6:59:55 PM

If Russia continues to dick around we have two options. Get involved militarily, or just let Russia do what it wants and piss away the past 20 years of diplomatic work in the Caucasus, Central Asia and parts of Eastern Europe (namely the Ukraine).

Will Russia back down if we stepped up? Who knows, but they don't have the logistical infrastructure for sustained campaigning if the West got involved. The could cut off oil/gas to Europe which would suck for everyone, but that would cripple Russia's economy before it did Europe's.

8/13/2008 7:28:58 PM

FUCKING WARMONGERS!

8/13/2008 8:50:12 PM

Quote :

"they don't have the logistical infrastructure for sustained campaigning if the West got involved"

I'm not sure if I agree. They don't need any real infrastructure, it is in their back yard. The West would be the party required to project a substantial force into the region and, right now, the US has limited ability and Europe has limited will. Russia knows this and will leverage it. If we weren't tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan we could probably show a credible threat of force that would make Russia think twice, but our options are limited right now.

8/13/2008 9:40:39 PM

Ss i said before, as soon as the serbian separatist leader was taken out, russia KNEW that a war was coming on the georgian border. A large portion of the south ossetian population are russian citizens, and a country has the right to protect its citizens. There have been several small encounters on the georgian border between russian and georgian forces over the course of about a year now. The fact that this was coming has been obvious for a year and half now. To every Russian, and most definitely the U.S. intelligence.

8/13/2008 9:43:14 PM

Quote :

"What I do remember is saying that the Russian invasion of Georgia does not parallel the US invasion of Iraq beyond the fact they are both military operations."

you're absolutely right with that. The US invaded a country that was no threat to world peace and no thread to Americans. Russia invaded a country with just cause. But leave it up to Bush to play high and mighty.

8/13/2008 9:45:09 PM

WTF is Russia thinking invading another country, using force against a leader they don't like, and justifying their violence b.c they are liberating/assisting those oppressed under the local regime. This is fucked up; who does shit like this???

oh wait

Quote :

"Will Russia back down if we stepped up? Who knows, but they don't have the logistical infrastructure for sustained campaigning if the West got involved."

I hope you are being sarcastic otherwise thank god you are not president. Even if Putin or whoever the fuck is president now took a big dump on the President of Georgia's forehead why should i care.....................
Sounds like more a middle east/European problem. Those countries can use THEIR tax payer funded money to stop the big bad wolf up north.

Just out of curiosity is South Ossetia kind of like "the west bank" or gaza strip in Israel?

[Edited on August 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM. Reason : ll]

8/13/2008 10:38:22 PM

^ Russia invaded a country. The US invaded a country. The parallels are striking.

8/13/2008 10:43:17 PM

We're going to have to deal with stupid parallels like this for the next 20 years.

Thanks, Bush.

8/13/2008 11:33:22 PM

socks, you know they are two different things.

8/13/2008 11:41:11 PM

Quote :

"However I think Russia is using our Iraq preemptive strategy to justify their presence and response in Georgia. In their minds it is perfectly legitimate because they have "evidence" that the Georgian President has been engaging in genocide in S. Ossetia against Russian nationals."

Maybe, but I think that the Russians will refer to American actions in Kosovo to justify their actions in S. Ossetia. The language is straight from 1998, "ethnic cleansing" and all.

8/13/2008 11:48:07 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/world/europe/14georgia.html

Quote :

"President Bush sent American troops to Georgia on Wednesday to oversee a “vigorous and ongoing” humanitarian mission, in a direct challenge to Russia’s display of military dominance over the region. His action came after Russian soldiers moved into two strategic Georgian cities in what he and Georgian officials called a violation of the cease-fire Russia agreed to earlier in the day."

Looks like George Bush isn't backing down. Ballsy is probably the perfect term to describe what he just did.

8/13/2008 11:49:47 PM

Russia delivered an ultimatum to the U.S.

"youre either for us or against us."

--http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/13/us.russia.diplomacy/index.html



gee. who would have ever guessed.

8/14/2008 2:42:00 AM

^ He did look into the man's eyes and see a kindred soul... so I guess this makes bush some kind of magical prescient sooth-sayer?

8/14/2008 2:51:28 AM

He didn't say he saw a kindred soul.

He said he saw a "good soul."

I shudder to think of what else such "good souls" are capable of...

8/14/2008 3:12:52 AM

Oh whatever, someone's "good" when they think like you. You say good soul, I say kindred. We invade Iraq under the pretense of finding WMD's then later liberation, Russia invades Georgia under the pretense of saving those poor opressed South Ossetians from the big bad Georgian military/police forces. It's just the same old tomato/xitomatl argument.

[Edited on August 14, 2008 at 3:27 AM. Reason : ]

8/14/2008 3:26:04 AM