in on page 1

3/12/2008 11:41:20 PM

gosh, i was listening to talk radio 680 the suck, i nearly jerked the wheel off into a ditch listening to biggoted people comparing their lives with black ghetto youths and saying they didnt make the same mistakes so blacks shouldnt either

3/12/2008 11:44:19 PM

As long as the women don't get all siddity on me and the men don't get uppity when Obama is elected I'll be fine.

3/13/2008 12:01:23 AM

Quote :

"the way i see the black before civil rights were alot more disciplined and had respect for themselves and others something along the way went wrong, im not sure hwat though"

^^ again makes a good point. A lot of whites are like, WTF, Jim Crow is over, black society disentigrates, and you want to blame me? Maybe its justified, maybe it isn't, but the perception isn't good.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 12:01 AM. Reason : ^]

3/13/2008 12:01:24 AM

Quote :

"" He and colleagues gave equal numbers of African-American and white Stanford sophomores a 30-minute standardized test composed of some of the more challenging items from the advanced Graduate Record Examination in literature. Steele notes that all the students were highly successful students and test-takers since all Stanford students must earn SAT scores well above the national average in order to be admitted to the university. The researchers told half the students that the test did not assess ability, but that the research was aimed at "understanding the psychological factors involved in solving verbal problems." The others were told that the test was a valid measure of academic ability and capacity. African-American students who were told that the test was a true measure of ability scored significantly lower than the white students. The other African-American students' scores were equal to the white students'. Whites performed the same in both situations.""

interesting I'd like to see the details of that study, to see if they actually isolated those factors, I just have a hard time believing an aspect of psychology could have such a profound impact systematically on test results, that really opens a pandora's box there, I couldn't count all the irrational fears and anxiety I've had throughout my academic career, or how many times I've doubted myself at the beginning of a test thinking I was going to fail, not up to whatever standards, or just thought I was stupid based on whatever event I messed up that week

regardless if that was the case then the change has to come within the black community, white people can't force blacks to "try hard" on these tests and they can't totally discredit their predictions because a group is not, ultimately the attitudes are perpetrated by the individual himself, somehow the parents and culture around them would have to instill some sort of confidence

Quote :

""In the 1980s the psychologist and philosopher James Flynn noticed one of the most striking trends of the 20th Century: that IQ scores have increased by about three points per decade, across the globe, for as long as we’ve had recorded tests. In his latest book, “What is Intelligence?” Flynn continues to refine reasons for the increase – and in doing so debunks the idea that IQ measures a genetically controlled quality and that any racial differences are deterministic. Flynn notes that the very fact that there are significant generational gains in IQ means that the scores cannot be ruled by genetics."

another interesting topic, I'm not quite sure if it's just that limited wording of that article or flynn himself but it seems a somewhat shortsighted explanation to say that the gradual of increase of iq scores would totally disqualify a genetic component, when genetics are so inherent in everything

some other possible reasons for the flynn effect are better nutrition, access to greater media, more academically challenging topics available to children at a younger age, regardless it's hard to believe there would be such persistent and reliable gap between iqs of races for decades without some sort of genetic component



[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 1:03 AM. Reason : k]

3/13/2008 12:53:10 AM

^ I know it's late, but that's one of the more illiterate posts i've seen on here in a while.

Are you sure you're not black?

Quote :

"again makes a good point. A lot of whites are like, WTF, Jim Crow is over, black society disentigrates, and you want to blame me? Maybe its justified, maybe it isn't, but the perception isn't good"

It's not justified. The black community has always had the same problems, it's just that before the civil rights, people knew exactly why (racism). After civil rights, probably a lot of things happened to make the whites feel they had no duty to help, but the problems for the most part have been getting better. Don't forget though, there are documented cases of the gov. continuing to screw over the blacks well after the civil rights era "ended," in the Tuskegee Experiments (ended 1972), and perhaps by far the most egregious acts ever committed by a gov on its people, the Iran-Contra affair (1980s).

When the gov. extracts millions $$ from inner city residents, predominantly blacks, and also helps in the formation of the Bloods and the Crips, the pioneers of modern gang culture, as well as flooding the inner-city with drugs, you can't just sit back and blame the people themselves.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 1:08 AM. Reason : ]

3/13/2008 12:58:58 AM

huh?

by illiterate do you mean not understanding your post cause I thought I expressed myself fairly efficiently for a message board at least

most illiterate thing on wolfweb? sheesh thats pretty harsh

the comma is essential here

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 1:07 AM. Reason : it is late so I'm going to bed]

3/13/2008 1:05:39 AM

Quote :

"and they can't totally discredit their predictions because a group is not, ultimately the attitudes are perpetrated by the individual himself, somehow the parents and culture around them would have to instill some sort of confidence "

Because a group is not what?

Also, how do you think you instill confidence in a group of people, especially if it's likely that it's a big barrier to their progression? To you keep asserting genetic inferiority when the evidence points elsewhere? And let's say even if (and it's a big IF) this was the case, for the members of that group who are different, wouldn't them and everyone else be better off to focus on the positives, rather than constantly attempting to label the entire group?

On TWW, and elsewhere, when a black person commits a crime, it doesn't take long for the posts labeling all blacks to come out, but when a white person commits a crime, no one blames the white race or all white people (except for me, as a form of protest). It's these kinds of things that exist in some form in many different areas (the worst of which are in school, and in the job market) are what breed racism, and lead to the false perception you have that certain people are just not as good as you because of their nature.

3/13/2008 1:16:59 AM

wow based on half a phrase you misintrepeted my post is totally illiterate now? if you had quoted the whole line it should have been clear that the not was referring to the issue of not trying hard

nice to know instead of addressing my points you'd rather get snippy and defensive

anyways it'd be nice if you focused on my actual post, I was just relating some awkward issues with your information and trying to delve deeper in to your argument

and obviously it's the disproportionate amount of crime statistically thats at the heart of the issue here

are you black, cause you don't seem like you are being particularly objective

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 1:27 AM. Reason : k]

3/13/2008 1:24:00 AM

Quote :

"The black community has always had the same problems, it's just that before the civil rights, people knew exactly why (racism)."

The black community has regressed since desegregation and the civil rights movement. They haven't "always had the same problems". Gang violence and drug use has exploded over the past few decades in black communities, and it can't be blamed on your blanket 'racism / cycles of poverty' excuse.

This country has seen a systematic breakdown of society in many black communities, where middle-class black neighborhoods have given way to slums and ghettos. Why has this happened? I don't know. But the discrimination argument just doesn't hold water when you look at all the opportunities in this country.

3/13/2008 1:26:57 AM

Quote :

"To you keep asserting genetic inferiority when the evidence points elsewhere?"

WTF is this nonsense?

Are you illiterate?

3/13/2008 1:28:29 AM

Quote :

"I endeavored to act up to that instruction. I say, I am yet too young to understand that God is any respecter of persons. I believe that to have interfered as I have done as I have always freely admitted I have done in behalf of His despised poor, was not wrong, but right. Now, if it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments, I submit; so let it be done!"

3/13/2008 1:29:38 AM

^

I agree with Ian

3/13/2008 1:36:48 AM

Quote :

"On TWW, and elsewhere, when a black person commits a crime, it doesn't take long for the posts labeling all blacks to come out, but when a white person commits a crime, no one blames the white race or all white people (except for me, as a form of protest). It's these kinds of things that exist in some form in many different areas (the worst of which are in school, and in the job market) are what breed racism, and lead to the false perception you have that certain people are just not as good as you because of their nature."

On the contrary, I think it's the racial disparity in America (in education, crime, the workforce, etc) that breeds racism. You can get talk about perception and media portrayals all you want, but ultimately people are not stupid. They will judge based on what they see, not what people tell them to think.


[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 1:40 AM. Reason : 2]

3/13/2008 1:38:13 AM

You're both stupid, for not realizing that both factors, ultimately, are to blame.

It's easier for the media, etc. to label blacks because they have so long been subject to such treatment, so abhorrent to the American ideal.

Each end helps to propagate the other.

I have my hopes as to how this injustice will rectify itself. I also have my far less pleasant realistic expectations.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 1:45 AM. Reason : ^People are, overall, a pack of retards. They eat what the media feeds them.]

3/13/2008 1:44:53 AM

Right, because the media is so racist

The same media where you will lose your job for saying anything that can even be construed as racist.

And you're sounding more and more liberal every day, insulting the intelligence of the populace. Obviously we need a nanny state, since people can't think for themselves

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 1:53 AM. Reason : 2]

3/13/2008 1:51:48 AM

brace yourself....

3/13/2008 1:53:09 AM

You stupid shit, I've been saying the same goddamn thing since long before I ever started to class up the wolfweb with my presence.

If you can't understand the naunces to popular media that allow it to propagate racism, then, well, frankly, I'm entirely too drunk and fucking pissed off to explain it to your semi-literate ass right this second. Maybe later, if I'm feeling generous enough to give you an opportunity to learn your way out of hell, I'll give you a hand.

3/13/2008 1:54:19 AM

boom

3/13/2008 1:55:20 AM

funny how the trying to be righteous folks are the ones resorting to ignorance and insults rather than address the arguments

3/13/2008 1:57:15 AM

What, exactly, are the arguments? Give 'em to me with the best possible face that you, personally, can put on them.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 2:01 AM. Reason : Incidentally, righteousness exists...and it always gets its bayonettes.]

3/13/2008 1:58:16 AM

majority of blacks = poverty

poverty = crime

/thread

3/13/2008 6:42:12 AM

poverty = excuse to be lazy

for whatever reason, people can use that excuse and get away with it. job applications don't ask you how much your family is worth.

3/13/2008 6:43:04 AM

actually, most random crimes (murders, burglaries, etc) tend to be made by blacks, and personal crimes tend to be made by whites.

I didn't say ALL and I didn't say this is always true. Just trends people.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 7:02 AM. Reason : wording]

3/13/2008 7:01:44 AM

^^As much as you seem to sympathize with murderers, you really don't seem give a shit about one of the underlying issues.

3/13/2008 7:06:44 AM

bttt

3/13/2008 9:20:05 AM

GET RID OF ALL THE POOR PEOPLE!!! THEN THERE WON'T BE ANY MORE CRIME!!

3/13/2008 9:32:07 AM

yes because you know, rich NY governors dont commit crimes

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 9:39 AM. Reason : not sure if he is rich. but sure isnt poor ]

3/13/2008 9:38:14 AM

neither did pacman or oj

3/13/2008 9:41:59 AM

Quote :

"wow based on half a phrase you misintrepeted my post is totally illiterate now? if you had quoted the whole line it should have been clear that the not was referring to the issue of not trying hard nice to know instead of addressing my points you'd rather get snippy and defensive anyways it'd be nice if you focused on my actual post, I was just relating some awkward issues with your information and trying to delve deeper in to your argument and obviously it's the disproportionate amount of crime statistically thats at the heart of the issue here are you black, cause you don't seem like you are being particularly objective "

Umm... I wrote a 2 paragraph response to your post, how am I the one getting snippy and defensive?

For the record:
- My posts addresses your post
- Your post (quoted above) whines about how you feel demeaned

Also, I am not black, I'm just not racist.

Quote :

"and obviously it's the disproportionate amount of crime statistically thats at the heart of the issue here "

Also, this is completely wrong. This disparity is ultimately a symptom of the deeper issue of racism, but there's also a feedback loop as well.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 9:51 AM. Reason : ]

3/13/2008 9:46:50 AM

it's funny everytime shit like this happens a lot of ppl are like OMG IT WAS A BLACK THUG LOOKING GUY

then all the black ppl go OMG DON'T BE RACIST, YOU DONT KNOW THAT!!

then they arrest a black thug looking guy

lolzers

3/13/2008 9:48:44 AM

No

3/13/2008 9:49:05 AM

Quote :

"On the contrary, I think it's the racial disparity in America (in education, crime, the workforce, etc) that breeds racism. You can get talk about perception and media portrayals all you want, but ultimately people are not stupid. They will judge based on what they see, not what people tell them to think. "

Yeah but where did this disparity come from? How did it start? How did it perpetuate? These aren't rhetorical questions, there are known and obvious answers to them.

3/13/2008 9:50:29 AM

I unfortunately have alot of racist comments I could add to this page, which are quite funny, but I think its horrible to say shit like that about someone

3/13/2008 10:07:36 AM

oh come on. just say it

3/13/2008 10:09:13 AM

Sorry I can't keep that up

I hate saying racist things even if I am joking... I have a lot of black friends

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 10:15 AM. Reason : dfgdsfg]

3/13/2008 10:13:19 AM

i saw that

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 10:15 AM. Reason : ]

3/13/2008 10:15:30 AM

3/13/2008 10:16:39 AM

hahahaha I'm not racist! I have a black friend!

3/13/2008 10:17:49 AM

thats what all the racists say lol

3/13/2008 10:18:33 AM

you can all suck on my extra-large black dick

3/13/2008 10:18:34 AM

i have a colored TV!

3/13/2008 10:18:43 AM

to the black man:

thanks for taking it all in stride

3/13/2008 10:27:29 AM

^^^ lol

3/13/2008 10:47:51 AM

Quote :

"Also, how do you think you instill confidence in a group of people, especially if it's likely that it's a big barrier to their progression? To you keep asserting genetic inferiority when the evidence points elsewhere? And let's say even if (and it's a big IF) this was the case, for the members of that group who are different, wouldn't them and everyone else be better off to focus on the positives, rather than constantly attempting to label the entire group? "

well you're the one that painted this deeply rooted psychological problem scenario, how about some solutions...seems pretty bleak to me, I was just pointing out that if the problem happens to be towards the way blacks view their own ability then they are the ones who will ultimately have to change their views

Quote :

"Also, this is completely wrong. This disparity is ultimately a symptom of the deeper issue of racism, but there's also a feedback loop as well. "

ah of course it's some snobby bigoted white a hundred miles away that is putting the gun in to these guys hands and make them shoot someone brutally, I forgot people have no free will, choices, or responsebility, why let little things like this get in the way of you trying to feel enlightened and righteous

Quote :

"When the gov. extracts millions $$ from inner city residents, predominantly blacks, and also helps in the formation of the Bloods and the Crips, the pioneers of modern gang culture, as well as flooding the inner-city with drugs, you can't just sit back and blame the people themselves. "

and explain this, how does the iran contra affair relate to race relations in america?

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason : k]

3/13/2008 12:04:25 PM

4 da lulz

3/13/2008 12:25:10 PM

^^ All that guy did was quote 3 people, and twise the words so much they became completely irrelevant to the words he was quoting.

What the fuck was the purpose of that? Are you trying to be funny? or was that a serious attempt to make sense?

3/13/2008 12:30:03 PM

personally, I'm struggling with not being a racist and realizing I hate a culture, not a people.

it is hard, and frustrating.....but the worst aspects always seems to be the most apparent.

3/13/2008 12:44:59 PM

Quote :

"I hate a culture, not a people."

QFT


i'm the same way and i'm black, so i guess it was easy for me to not hate the people...

3/13/2008 12:48:07 PM

It's not just blacks. It is poor, uneducated people....which unfortunately in this country is what most urban black people have been bred into because of the start they got here.

Look, we shit on these people for like 100+ years, then let them go, then shit on them some more for about 100 years.....and we expect the poorest ones to be all like "awww shucks, its okayyyy."

Fuck no. They are gonna shoot our rich girls in the head and steal their cars. And they are going to sell drugs to make money. And they are going to do what they can do to prevent their own suffering, even if it means violating the standards of normal morals and societal laws.

3/13/2008 12:53:02 PM