3indeed
3/20/2006 11:44:27 PM
Yeah V was reckless and brought us down, with the help of a N&O that had an agenda and an author of a book that had one as well. No matter the motives involved, yes that caused the collapse. However, Sendek has not helped State recover fully from the collapse. He has brought us to a nice starting point to cross back over into a program that wins titles, etc., but that is as far as he can go. Ten years and he still cannot break the threshold, when will people start to realize that he never will.
3/20/2006 11:45:02 PM
that shit happened when you were what? 3 years old?[Edited on March 20, 2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason : ,]
3/20/2006 11:45:39 PM
^^STFU already.Seriously dude. Do you even remember when we were happy to win the ACC play in game???[Edited on March 20, 2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason : ^^]
3/20/2006 11:45:41 PM
I guess being a freshman means I can't know anything about sports or NC State athletic history, or that I have been following Wolfpack sports my whole life...right.
3/20/2006 11:46:27 PM
No, I can't remember it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, that doesn't mean that I can't read the damn banners hanging in the RBC Center that show our last ACC Title was in 1987 and last NC in 1983. It doesn't mean that I can't see that Herb has the worst winning percentage against Duke and UNC of any coach in NC State history.
3/20/2006 11:47:38 PM
3/20/2006 11:48:06 PM
next thing you know, he's going to mock Herb's sayings....wait for it.....
3/20/2006 11:48:47 PM
I'm not a child, I'm not going to mock Herb. He is a good guy, he is a respectable person, he has led a clean, so-so program. He isn't the guy to take State to the next level, that is my only problem with him.
3/20/2006 11:49:33 PM
I CAN SEE THE FUTURE!!!
3/20/2006 11:51:08 PM
so he "killed" the history of our basketball tradition?
He is killing it as we speak, which is evident by the fact that so many on this board think that his accomplishments (or lack of them) show a record of success. The fact that so many are willing to settle for mediocrity proves that he is killing the tradition.
3/20/2006 11:53:29 PM
its still funny that some recent grads who give like $2000 a year think their money is worth a fuck compared to the big dog donors...oh man, naivety is hilarious
3/21/2006 12:30:11 PM
3/21/2006 12:31:21 PM
Below are the records, through only their first 10 years, for all ACC basketball coaches who held their positions for at least 10 seasons since the creation of the league in 1953. They are listed in order of their winning percentage in regular-season conference games.Vic Bubas, Duke, 1960-69: 106-32 record (.768) in ACC regular-season games, 213-67 overall (.761), 22-6 ACC Tournament (.786), 11-4 NCAA Tournament (.733), 4 ACC titles, 4 first-place finishes, 4 NCAA bids, 4 Sweet 16s, 3 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Dean Smith, North Carolina, 1962-71: 97-43 record (.693) in ACC regular-season games, 191-77 overall (.713), 14-7 ACC Tournament (.667), 7-5 NCAA Tournament (.583), 3 ACC titles, 4 first-place finishes, 3 NCAA bids, 3 Sweet 16s, 3 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Everett Case, N.C. State, 1954-63: 85-49 record (.634) in ACC regular-season games, 183-77 overall (.704), 15-6 ACC Tournament (.714), 2-2 NCAA Tournament (.500), 4 ACC titles, 3 first-place finishes, 2 NCAA bids, 2 Sweet 16s, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Norm Sloan, N.C. State, 1967-76: 78-52 record (.600) in ACC regular-season games, 190-86 overall (.688), 12-7 ACC Tournament (.632), 4-1 NCAA Tournament (.800), 3 ACC titles, 2 first-place finishes, 2 NCAA bids, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Final Four, 1 NCAA title.Terry Holland, Virginia, 1975-84: 73-57 record (.562) in ACC regular-season games, 214-95 overall (.693), 10-9 ACC Tournament (.526), 11-5 NCAA Tournament (.688), 1 ACC title, 3 first-place finishes, 5 NCAA bids, 3 Sweet 16s, 2 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Dave Odom,, Wake Forest, 1990-99: 86-70 record (.551) in ACC regular-season games, 199-97 overall (.672), 8-8 ACC Tournament (.500), 10-7 NCAA Tournament (.588), 2 ACC titles, 1 first-place finish, 7 NCAA bids, 3 Sweet 16s, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Mike Krzyzewski, Duke, 1981-90: 76-64 record (.543) in ACC regular-season games, 231-101 overall (.696), 12-8 ACC Tournament (.600), 21-7 NCAA Tournament (.750), 2 ACC titles, 1 first-place finish, 7 NCAA bids, 5 Sweet 16s, 4 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Lefty Driesell, Maryland, 1970-79: 67-57 record (.540) in ACC regular-season games, 189-85 overall (.690), 9-10 ACC Tournament (.474), 3-2 NCAA Tournament (.600), 0 ACC titles, 1 first-place finish, 2 NCAA bids, 1 Sweet 16, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles. Bud Millikan, Maryland, 1954-63: 71-64 record (.526) in ACC regular-season games, 147-104 overall (.586), 6-9 ACC Tournament (.400), 2-1 NCAA Tournament (.667), 1 ACC title, 0 first-place finishes, 1 NCAA bid, 1 Sweet 16, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Jim Valvano, N.C. State, 1981-90: 71-69 record (.507) in ACC regular-season games, 209-114 overall (.647), 9-8 ACC Tournament (.529), 14-6 NCAA Tournament (.700), 2 ACC titles, 2 first-place finishes, 7 NCAA bids, 4 Sweet 16s, 1 Final Four, 1 NCAA title. Bobby Cremins, Georgia Tech, 1982-91: 70-70 record (.500) in ACC regular-season games, 198-112 overall (.639), 9-8 ACC Tournament (.529), 11-7 NCAA Tournament (.611), 2 ACC titles, 1 first-place finish, 7 NCAA bids, 3 Sweet 16s, 1 Final Four, 0 NCAA titles.Gary Williams, Maryland, 1990-99: 78-78 record (.500) in ACC regular-season games, 192-118 overall (.619), 7-9 ACC Tournament (.438), 8-6 NCAA Tournament (.571), 0 ACC titles, 1 first-place finish, 6 NCAA bids, 4 Sweet 16s, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Herb Sendek, N.C. State, 1997-2006: 72-88 record (.450) in ACC regular-season games, 191-132 overall (.591), 13-10 ACC Tournament (.565), 5-5 NCAA Tournament (.500), 0 ACC titles, 0 first-place finishes, 5 NCAA bids, 1 Sweet 16, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Carl Tacy, Wake Forest, 1973-82: 52-74 record (.413) in ACC regular-season games, 164-114 overall (.590), 5-10 ACC Tournament (.333), 3-3 NCAA Tournament (.500), 0 ACC titles, 0 first-place finishes, 3 NCAA bids, 1 Sweet 16, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Cliff Ellis, Clemson, 1985-94: 56-90 record (.384) in ACC regular-season games, 177-128 overall (.580), 3-10 ACC Tournament (.231), 3-3 NCAA Tournament (.500), 0 ACC titles, 1 first-place finish, 3 NCAA bids, 2 Sweet 16s, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.Bill Gibson, Virginia, 1964-73: 46-90 record (.338) in ACC regular-season games, 109-142 overall (.434), 4-10 ACC Tournament (.286), 0-0 NCAA Tournament (.000), 0 ACC titles, 0 first-place finishes, 0 NCAA bids, 0 Sweet 16s, 0 Final Fours, 0 NCAA titles.
3/21/2006 3:11:14 PM
3/21/2006 3:15:35 PM
3/21/2006 3:17:25 PM
3/21/2006 3:18:49 PM
^^^^ok good, now go dig up the 5 years that led up to each of those coaches' first years and we'll talk.[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ]
3/21/2006 3:22:28 PM
3/21/2006 3:24:11 PM
honestly, guys, I can understand taking the position of not wanting to fire Herb, but can you honestly sit there and say he did a good job this year? How can you look at a 2nd round bounce from the NCAA as a positive thing? Considering we were nationally ranked almost the entire year and then absolutely COLLAPSED. Who do you blame for that? It is the coach's job to get the team up for games, to make them feel like they CAN win! Apparently Herb doesn't do that very well.
3/21/2006 3:36:01 PM
yeah its a team sport which means the players take no blame at all for lossesand 22 wins including an ncaa tourney win is not a bad season unless you are living in fantasy land where you think we should win lots of titles since jimmy v pulled one out of his ass]
3/21/2006 3:37:49 PM
3/21/2006 3:44:17 PM
yeah, one of the things herb doesnt have that dean and k had was shitty competition]
3/21/2006 3:45:14 PM
dude, everything you say is so over the top. I dont think anyone on here is saying that State should win the national title right now. (I'm certainly not anyway) However, this season, regardless of how you want to spin it, was a disappointment. We took a step backward. Prior to that end of season skid, we were likely a 3 seed in the tourney and we slipped to a 10! and then got our asses handed to us by Texas. And again, few of those 22 wins were against really top notch talent (BC and GW expcepted). No wins against Duke, no wins against UNC, no wins in the ACC tourney (and a 4th place finish in the league). And all of this with a team of seniors.and if it IS a team game and we should be looking at the team as well as Herb then lets realize that these guys learned everything they know from Herb.Shitty competition??? Are you high?? Every analyst in the country has said that this was a down year in the ACC. Once you got past FSU, there was a serious drop off in talent. The ACC was much stronger as a league during the 80's and 90's. [Edited on March 21, 2006 at 3:51 PM. Reason : .]
3/21/2006 3:48:56 PM
3/21/2006 3:49:28 PM
^^a disappointment? if we had beaten texas and then lost to west virginia would it cease to be a disappointment? if we had gone 1-1 with UNC and gone out to texas in the 2nd round would it cease to have been a disappointing season? if we had gone 10-22 but 2 of those 10 wins were over carolina would the season still be a disappointment? you guys just expect too much, we are not the same powerhouse we were 30 years ago because the college game is totally different...maybe if you didnt expect more than you should you wouldnt be so disappointed at a season that 99% of other schools' fans would appreciate^oh look you are talking about the wake losses again, i've never heard anyone even mention those games as their whole argument for this 30+ game season being a success or failure]
3/21/2006 3:51:11 PM
3/21/2006 3:57:57 PM
3/21/2006 3:59:09 PM
^^
3/21/2006 4:02:47 PM
I MENTIONED THE WAKE LOSSES BUT I WAS NOT ARGUING ABOUT THIS SEASON BEING A SUCCESS OR FAILURE YOU ILLITERATE FUCKHEAD.
3/21/2006 4:04:21 PM
and yeah this is great too
3/21/2006 4:07:14 PM
3/21/2006 4:07:43 PM
how much did it slip away? we still made the tourney...we lost, what, a 3 seed? who's to say a 14 seed wouldnt have taken us out? shit you act like i think losing is a good thing...i dont...i'd love to have gone from 21-5 to 25-5 and won a few acc tourney games...that doesnt mean an ncaa tourney win is guaranteed...how'd that #3 seed work out for iowa? how far did UNC go with their #3 seed? how'd Syracuse's 4 game win streak do them compared to our 4 game losing streak? we lost 4 late games to 3 good teams...and you're retarded if you think wake isnt a good team just because they finished 12th...you just look for the negatives and ignore the rest because apparently 5 straight tourney appearances (State is 2nd in consecutive appearances only to DUKE) is mediocre and we should be making final fours left and right]
3/21/2006 4:11:07 PM
3/21/2006 4:12:17 PM
haha i like how you ignore the rest of the poststatehypocritefan24
3/21/2006 4:12:49 PM
I hadn't even read the whole post yet. when I posted that.but IMO the season going from easily 25-5 to 21-9 and the events that made it that way make for a disappointing season. the colts were amazing all year and they fucked up at the end. that makes the whole season pretty fucking disappointing for colts fan.not a perfect analogy, I know. but tis the 1st thing that comes 2 mind[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 4:18 PM. Reason : b]
3/21/2006 4:16:29 PM
well maybe you should read my whole post and try and get my whole jist of what i'm saying and not just selectively take a line that suits your purpose...if all my posts were one liners that would work fine but I put more into them than that
3/21/2006 4:17:42 PM
That's interesting, TreeTwista telling people to read a whole post.
3/21/2006 4:19:21 PM
3/21/2006 4:35:05 PM
^actually, there was great shame in losing to texas the way we did. did you even watch the game?
3/21/2006 4:47:23 PM
yes of course i watched the gamehow is there shame in losing to a better texas team in dallas?because their players are much better than ours?because that fucking shooting guard who had zero points against Penn could not miss from behind the arc?because they have 2 or 3 cedric simmons' and they're more experienced than our only legit low post player?and if you're saying herb had something working in the 1st half and abandoned it in the 2nd half...i'm gonna have to ask if YOU watched the game...State looked good the last 5 minutes of the 1st half and thats about it...we started off the game down 20-5...texas wasnt missing anything...we made a run due to our players actually hustling for a change]
3/21/2006 4:49:13 PM
yeah herb coached us into only making 2 field goals in the first what, 15 minutes of the half?herb missed those shots.
3/21/2006 4:49:25 PM
3/21/2006 4:55:37 PM
so when we lose it's the players faults and when we win, it's because of the coaches?
3/21/2006 4:56:13 PM
Lets look at the facts.... State went 22-9 this season.Of those 22 wins:-12 were against teams that finished at or below .500-we split with 2 of the teams that were at or below .500 (2 losses to Wake and a loss to GT)-For the year we played 9 games against Top 25 teams, we lost 6 of them. (by an average of almost 13pts)-We realistically had 4 quality wins: George Washington, BC, FSU, and California (and Cal is a stretch!)-Against the Big 4 (which is a local way of evaluating the team) we were 1-6-With the exception of the 4 quality wins, no other team we won against won 20 games this year.And again, we didn't win a game in the ACC tourney and we got blown out in the 2nd rd of the NCAA tourney. And, yes, we ended the season on a major skid. Honestly, there is nothing about this season that WASN'T a disappointment. We had a couple of hight points with semi-big wins and it was nice to be ranked most of the year. But all of that got us nowhere. I guess I should be thankful the bus didn't crash.
3/21/2006 4:56:20 PM
Exactly how many of Duke's almost 30 wins came against teams with a winning record???NC State is the only team in the country that schedules easy wins!
3/21/2006 5:00:48 PM
Lets look at the facts.... State went 22-9 this season.Of those 22 wins:-10 were against teams that finished above .500-We beat 3 top 25 teams, 2 by over 20 points-We realistically had 7 quality wins: George Washington, BC, FSU, FSU, Maryland, Alabama, and California (and beating a higher seed in the NCAA tourney and saying calling it a quality win is only a stretch is something a retard would say!)-Against the Big 4 (which is a local way of evaluating the team) we were 1-6oh look here's my spin on those stats]
3/21/2006 5:00:53 PM
Miami could almost be a quality win.At least the one down there could be.UNC went 1-1 against Miami.[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 5:02 PM. Reason : 1-1]
3/21/2006 5:02:02 PM
i hope herb quits and state is forced to hire some shitty no-name coachi will laugh my fucking ass off
3/21/2006 7:50:43 PM