THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!1

10/16/2015 12:39:23 PM

Abbas went on TV trying to incite riots and violence by telling people that Israeli police killed a child for no good reason when A) the child stabbed 2 people (including a child) and lunged at police officers, and B) he is alive and being taken care of by Israeli doctors despite his actions.

There was another stabbing this morning. A Palestinian man posing as a journalist stuck a knife into a soldier.

[Edited on October 16, 2015 at 12:51 PM. Reason : -]

10/16/2015 12:48:27 PM

Quote :

"Then Sharon did 100% disengage from Gaza in 2005, and Israel was thanked with the election of a terrorist organization into mainstream power."

Let's not pretend that Israel isn't a terrorist state as well.

10/16/2015 1:37:48 PM

Israel is guilty of taking innocent lives and using excessive force in retaliation. There's no doubt. I hate Netanyahu and don't think he is for the best interests of civilians on either side.

I'm just sick of people who call every Palestinian death a catastrophe, even the deaths of murderers, insinuating that when Israelis are harmed or killed they deserved it.

10/16/2015 1:52:36 PM

Quote :

"Considering that the Palestinian population grows quite exponentially each year, the Israelis are doing a pretty bad job of killing them off. There's a difference between losing a war and being strategically wiped out. And you can't call it a conquest either when Israel has several times offered to trade land for peace. in 2000, Ehud Barak offered a 97% pullout from West Bank and 100% from Gaza, and Arafat said no. Then Sharon did 100% disengage from Gaza in 2005, and Israel was thanked with the election of a terrorist organization into mainstream power. "

That's linear growth. The Palestinians lost the war a long time ago, and the state of Palestine has been getting strategically wiped out since then. I'm sure I don't need to post the territory maps or the death toll charts again.

And the cause of this is the idea of a 2-state solution. This will never work, and trying to force this is what's causing the problems. There needs to be a single state founded on democratic principles that incorporates both Israelis and Palestinians, and the efforts should be focused on what it would take to make this state work, not trying to force people by race into ridiculously gerry mandered areas brutally enforced by the military strength of the Israelis. Can you see why this would always lead to conflict? This isn't the natural state of any population.

10/16/2015 2:15:24 PM

^^
Fair enough. Conversely, there's this article's comments section:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/16/how-to-stab-jew-israel-at-un-condemns-palestinian-president-for-inciting

10/16/2015 2:32:18 PM

[Edited on October 16, 2015 at 2:42 PM. Reason : Double post]

10/16/2015 2:40:34 PM

^^ The first comments I read were about the failed black presidency, Jesus, and how dumb liberals are. What Americans say in response to a right-wing online publication doesn't reflect the opinion of common Israelis.

But in response to the article itself, there have been several videos running rampant on the internet of immams instructing people to go stab Jews. There was also a facebook group called "Stab More Jews" until it was deleted by facebook for obvious reasons.

10/16/2015 4:54:52 PM

Once we are not dependant on oil going through the Suez canal and the evangelicals to become a small minority, can we stop caring? Also stop paying for Isreal and Egypt and all other bribe money/bases in the area?

When I say stop caring and paying I mean move it down to how much the US does/cares about Africa.

10/17/2015 8:07:10 PM

UNESCO is trying to reclassify the Western Wall as a Muslim site. You know...the last remaining wall of the holiest building in Judaism that existed at least a thousand years before Islam was even a thought.

Just more anti-Israel UN bias.

10/20/2015 2:20:47 PM

the UNESCO chief is against this resolution (which was made by arab member states) and postponed the vote


[Edited on October 20, 2015 at 3:10 PM. Reason : but i guess your apartheid-state theocracy doesn't pay for your internet post if you mention that]

10/20/2015 3:09:12 PM

That's what "Middle East's only democracy" and "the most moral army in the world" does

May the Lord's wrath be upon those barbaric bestial savages.

Quote :

"Stop demolition of Palestinian housing, EU tells Israel BRUSSELS, Belgium: The European Union on Saturday called on Israel to halt the demolition of Palestinian housing, some of which was EU-funded, and reiterated its opposition to expanding Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. “In the past weeks there have been a number of developments in Area C of the West Bank, which risk undermining the viability of a future Palestinian state and driving the parties yet further apart,” the EU diplomatic service said in a statement. It referred to Israel’s decision on January 25 to declare 154 hectares (380 acres) of land near Jericho in the West Bank as state land, with reported plans to build around 150 new residences for settlers. This was followed by the demolition of several Palestinian residences in the south Hebron hills on Wednesday. “This is particularly concerning both because of the extent of the demolitions and also the number of vulnerable individuals affected, including children who need support,” the EU said, adding that “demolitions included EU-funded structures.” “We call on the Israeli authorities to reverse the decisions taken and to halt further demolitions,” it said. Foreign ministers from the 28 EU nations had confirmed “the EU’s firm opposition to Israel’s settlement policy” and criticized the actions including demolitions, confiscation and forced transfers. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Friday he was “ashamed” at a lack of progress in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, which has been deadlocked since a US peace mission collapsed in April 2014."

2/8/2016 11:30:29 AM

For reference

2/8/2016 11:33:18 AM

Reference for what?

2/8/2016 3:58:23 PM

There are 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide already.

2/8/2016 9:53:59 PM

how is that relevant to anything? you are confounding the issue and messing up the thread with that massive irrelevant map which might mean that many people will miss what i posted.

2/8/2016 10:20:25 PM

I can't edit it already.

2/8/2016 10:43:53 PM

Yes, it's a wasteful post. I admit.

2/8/2016 10:49:23 PM

please send a message to theduke/qntm to request him to delete all posts starting from the map, if you agree.

tsb mod: yes, i agree to having my posts after the map deleted.

thank you.

2/9/2016 12:14:54 AM

You seem a little bit picky, but I will go ahead and do that.

2/9/2016 7:18:40 AM

pm sent

2/9/2016 7:57:20 AM

I just sent a pm to the mod asking him not to delete any posts. for posterity's sake.

2/9/2016 9:12:40 AM

I think it's a great map actually.

2/9/2016 9:41:57 AM

It's pretty good. I'd prefer warm colors though.

2/9/2016 9:53:34 AM

Making them look a lot less as locusts or cockroaches expanding worldwide.

2/9/2016 12:36:02 PM

I typically don't delete posts unless they're disruptive.

2/10/2016 6:36:27 PM

You are pretty open. I appreciate that.

2/12/2016 10:08:06 AM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/israel-boycott-local-councils-public-bodies-and-student-unions-to-be-banned-from-shunning-israeli-a6874006.html

2/15/2016 12:48:51 PM

Fucking ZioNazis

Quote :

"UN: Israel razing Palestine homes at ‘alarming’ rate AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE Published — Wednesday 9 March 2016 JERUSALEM: Israel is razing Palestinian homes and other buildings constructed with international aid at an “alarming” rate, the UN says, with more demolitions so far this year than in all of 2015. In total 121 structures funded partly or fully by international donors were demolished in the occupied West Bank between Jan. 1 and March 2, overtaking the 108 from all of 2015, according to UN figures seen by AFP. The projects include homes for Palestinians and at least one school, as well as temporary structures such as pens for animals and sheds. Robert Piper, UN humanitarian coordinator for the Palestinian territories, wrote in response to an AFP query that the demolitions were “alarming.” “We have already surpassed the total number of humanitarian aid items destroyed or confiscated in all of 2015, in just the first 10 weeks of 2016,” Piper said. “We will be protesting to the Israeli authorities of course, as are many in the diplomatic community.” Vance Culbert, country director at the Norwegian Refugee Council NGO, recently said there were “tens of millions of dollars of donor assistance which are at risk of demolition.” COGAT, the Israeli Defense Ministry body responsible for implementing government policies in the Palestinian territories, declined to comment on the number of demolitions, saying only that it takes “enforcement steps against any illegal construction” after issuing demolition orders. The spike comes as US Vice President Joe Biden is due to arrive in Israel for talks with Israeli and Palestinian leaders. US State Department spokesman John Kirby last week warned of a “damaging trend of demolition, displacement, and land confiscation” that calls “into question the Israeli government’s commitment to (the) two-state solution.” Moti Yogev, an MP from the far-right Jewish Home party who heads an Israeli Parliament sub-committee on the West Bank, said the rise in demolitions was likely in response to European Union measures on imports of goods from Israeli settlements in the West Bank. “I have no doubt that the government’s firm stance is in part a result of the unilateral measures taken by Europe,” Yogev, whose party has ministers in the government, told AFP."

3/9/2016 6:31:53 AM

^We are all in agreement here that actions such as that must stop. Yet this is the only kind of news you ever seem to care about. How about this one:

Quote :

"A Palestinian on a stabbing rampage on Tuesday along a coastal promenade near Tel Aviv killed an American combat veteran who was a graduate student at Vanderbilt University."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/09/world/middleeast/jaffa-israel-stabbing-attacks.html

All Israeli citizens (and anyone just happening to be in Israel) have indiscriminately become targets for stabbings, including women and children. Yet the world wants to downplay their daily fear. Israel got too good at stopping missiles and bombs, so now knives are the way to strike.

I'm surprised the New York Times had such a neutral headline, considering all of these others which clearly misrepresent the situation:

Quote :

"Three Palestinians shot dead"

-International Business Times

Quote :

"Three Palestinians shot dead by Israeli security forces"

-OneNewsNow

Quote :

"American tourist killed amid Israeli stabbing violence"

-NBC News

Quote :

"American dies after 10 stabbed by lone Tel Aviv attacker"

The first two make it sound like the IDF just shot people without cause when all three of those Palestinians were actively trying to stab civilians. The latter two make it sound like the attacker was Israeli.

The BBC, which is notorious for misleading headline, got a little closer but still left it pretty vague as to who the perpetrators were:

Quote :

"One killed and several wounded in attacks on Israelis"

Joe Biden was pretty critical of Israel recently, but now that a stabbing rampage took place within miles of where he was visiting, it looks like he's changing his tune:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/world/middleeast/biden-israel-violence-abbas.html

[Edited on March 9, 2016 at 2:14 PM. Reason : -]

3/9/2016 2:11:38 PM

Fuck Netanyahu, he really is the devil incarnate. What a completely shameless oppressor.

https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/796041967203979

What a great day it would be when he dies... the sooner the better. Unfortunately, that won't solve anything, as an even more evil savage in a suit will take his place.

9/12/2016 3:11:39 AM

I know we've been over this before, but why isn't a single, secular, non-apartheid state the ideal solution?

12/28/2016 12:19:11 AM

But muh narrative!

12/28/2016 1:28:03 AM

Kerry Rebukes Israel, Calling Settlements a Threat to Peace
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/us/politics/john-kerry-israel-palestine-peace.html

12/28/2016 3:53:37 PM

I'm pretty sure every peace deal that Israel has agreed to since 2000 has them relinquishing about 95% of the settlements they occupy, for peace and recognition that Israel is a nation.

Every single time.

EVERY SINGLE TIME, the deals have been rejected by the PLO.

So I say let them keep building until the PLO realizes that they aren't going to get a better deal, and more and more Israelis will "occupy" the West Bank.

To which they are rightfully entitled.

12/28/2016 5:08:03 PM

I normally dont get involved in this bc both sides act like children but... why are they entitled to shit?

[Edited on December 28, 2016 at 5:14 PM. Reason : $$$$]

12/28/2016 5:13:29 PM

^^ lol

adorbs

12/28/2016 5:29:01 PM

Quote :

"I know we've been over this before, but why isn't a single, secular, non-apartheid state the ideal solution?"

2 states for 2 peoples with 2 stories about 2 histories. There would be 16 states if everyone wanted a small patch of land where everyone agreed with them.

But for now, let's just settle for two who don't have to bomb each other.

I wish the settlement construction would just stop until actual borders could be established. This isn't a military/terrorist problem, it's a PR problem. Every time more settlements are built, the world has a reason to hate Israel. So when a rocket lands in Beersheva, a bomb goes off at a cafe in Tel Aviv, or a police officer is stabbed to death on the Jewish side of Jerusalem, it can be blamed on the settlements and not on called what it is, which is murder.

And the thing about Netanyahu...don't let him be a reflection of who Israelis are or of what they want. Let's remember that Netanyahu's party won control with only 23% of the vote. That's like saying because 45% of voters wanted Trump as their president that every American is a racist xenophobic idiot asshole. Netenyahu needs to be removed from office and replaced with someone like Issac Herzog or Yair Lapid who don't need to keep the right wing nuts happy to maintain the government.

12/28/2016 9:17:54 PM

When kdogg(c) opens a post with "I'm pretty sure..." you know you're in for a wild fucking ride.

12/28/2016 10:19:33 PM

^^ borders have been established multiple times, Israel just doesn't give a shit, what makes you think needing to establish borders again will change anything?

12/29/2016 7:22:04 AM

Quote :

""I know we've been over this before, but why isn't a single, secular, non-apartheid state the ideal solution?"

Because it's impossible. Put the two sides together in one government, and whichever side had the most votes would immediately start working to assemble an apartheid state. Either they would succeed, or the other side would start a civil war to take power or create two states.

At the moment, the Palestinians would be the ones with the most votes in such a state, but it doesn't matter. Either side would treat the other one all shitty, just like they do currently.

Quote :

" borders have been established multiple times, Israel just doesn't give a shit, what makes you think needing to establish borders again will change anything?"

Neither side has given a shit. Right now, with the settlements, the Israelis are being the assholes with regards to borders. But the past 70 years has a lot of incidents of Israel's neighbors colluding to ignore its borders with tanks. Those neighbors haven't gotten any warmer and fuzzier since the last war, and their newfound "respect" for Israel's borders is nominal. We paid of the Egyptians and the Syrians and Iraqis are too busy with civil wars to pay any attention.

Establishing a border that all the major players agree to would be a major step. It would halt settlement activity and effectively bring about Palestinian statehood. The problem isn't that everyone will ignore borders, the problem is that no border can be agreed upon. Or, if it were agreed upon by the governments of the moment, hardliners would try to take power and un-agree to them.

12/31/2016 3:07:47 PM

The past rejections of any peace deal by the PLO don't matter, because TODAY!!!

Israel = BAD.

12/31/2016 3:10:22 PM

Sure they matter. If the PLO had played ball back when we had a more liberal-minded Israeli government, there might actually be a sustainable peace. The various Palestinian parties (Hamas, Fatah, etc) = BAD

Unfortunately, it's still true that Israel = BAD. And right this second, their bad behavior is causing more problems. The past is useful to understand how we got here and why people act the way they do, but there's little enough to be gained by pissing and moaning about how much better off we'd be if Arafat had done X and Y twenty years ago.

12/31/2016 3:27:41 PM

Well, at least we didn't abstain from the meaningless Syrian cease fire agreement that passed today.

Aslo, this is well worth a read.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/30/why-did-obama-pander-to-the-un-s-stunning-anti-israel-bias.html

[Edited on December 31, 2016 at 3:32 PM. Reason : sfsdf]

12/31/2016 3:31:24 PM

In October, a UNESCO resolution passed claiming that Jews have no historical claim to the Western Wall, and that the Temple Mount is only a holy site for Muslims. That's like saying the Pope has no historic claim to St Peter's Basilica and Muslims shouldn't be able to visit the Kaaba in Mecca.

The UN is full of shit.

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/127560-161013-unesco-due-to-pass-resolution-challenging-jewish-ties-to-jerusalem-holy-sites

12/31/2016 7:21:43 PM

Hot take from the resident "I support everything Israel because they paid for me to vacation there because of my moms religion" expert

1/1/2017 7:35:19 AM

Great contribution to the argument! Because I took a free trip, Jews have no historic claim to the holiest site in their 3000 year old religion.

1/1/2017 1:33:15 PM

ITT liberals know they are supposed to be anti-Israel, but can't seem to explain why.

MUH NARRATIVE!

1/1/2017 2:22:21 PM

It's pretty simple. As a country, they play the highly moral, innocent victim card, yet as a country they still employ policies that are nearly universally viewed as immoral and surgically oppressive.


When you have an entire group of nations standing back to say "hey you've gone too far" then maybe it is time to consider you've gone too far, rather than doubling down and saying that it's just not fair because everyone always picks on you and you should get what you want.


To put it in terms of types of people, if this were a person rather than a country, it would be the spoiled rich kid who complains whenever something doesn't go his way or, heaven forbid, someone tries to discipline him when he acted out of line.


There was a good chance in 2000/2001 for agreement. Both sides were ready, but then Barak submitted a new map, to which Palestine agreed because they were all "hey let's just get this the fuck over with", but Barak then refused to sign to that new, more beneficial, self-drawn map. Honestly, I think it has been hard for the other side, and other viewing countries, to take them seriously after that.

1/4/2017 11:53:47 AM

That's one detail of a much more complex story. A plan was drawn up at the Camp David meeting in 2000 which would have recognized Palestinian statehood and removed 95% of the Jewish settlements from the West Bank and 100% from Gaza. Arafat said no without any counteroffer or negotiation.

Then, in January of 2001, Bill Clinton proposed a different map which gave 97% of the West Bank to a new Palestinian State. Ehud Barak countered with a map that had only very slight changes, and it looked like it was going to be accepted. But Barak had to put the negotiation on hold to focus on his election. Since he had been negotiating and offering up land deals (including the withdrawal of all Israelis from southern Lebanon) during the Second Intifada, which was happening all throughout this process, the people ran to the right (as what always happens in every country during war and struggle). So he didn't get to go finish the plan with Clinton and Arafat. Had the Intifada ceased anytime before the election, Barak would have had a better chance to win and get back to the negotiation. Instead, the Intifada was called off just 2 days after the election, showing that the Palestinian leaders didn't want the negotiation, they wanted a right-wing Israeli regime which would be easier to demonize than the one offering peace plans they knew Arafat would look bad rejecting.

Israel doesn't play the morally superior card anymore. They know they've done wrong. But they can't fix it until the safety of their citizens is guaranteed. They forcibly removed all the Jews from Gaza and then it only got worse. Full disengagement in the West Bank won't happen all at once. Everyone comes to the table with all-or-nothing RIGHT NOW approaches but it needs to happen piece by piece.

1/4/2017 3:05:23 PM