Quote :

"Dude keeps getting worse and adds absolutely nothing unless he's hitting 3s."

This is so true. His freshman year still may have been his best year by far.

2/10/2021 1:04:46 PM

Since this season is over time for some speculation. If we miss the tournament again next season is Keatts on the hot seat? How many years would he have left on his contract? Currently his best three players are two big men and a power forward. He supposedly likes a spread offense with shooters and full court pressure. These don’t really go together.

2/13/2021 11:08:05 PM

No NCAAT in 2021-22 season and he’s definitely on the hot seat. Best I can tell, his contract runs through 2026

2/14/2021 8:47:27 AM

Well hopefully we don’t give him another extension in the offseason. Let him earn it for a year or two with that many years left on his contract.

2/14/2021 12:43:40 PM

Don't give any coach an extension unless they're being targeted by other schools

2/14/2021 2:38:26 PM

Yeah generally speaking, coaching contracts are insane. Not just for high salaries. But because almost all coaches either get fired or leave for another job before their contracts run out. So you’ve got insane buyout numbers to pay, sometimes for many many years.

But it’s all part of the game. If you have an expiring contract, recruiting and fundraising is pretty damn hard. Coaches and their agents really do seem to have a sweet gig going. Get a job with a 4-5 year contract initially. Do well in the first year or two and they’ll give you a raise and extension (and increase buyout). Then you suck and get fired in 3 years. And get your buyout money and then do it all over again.

2/14/2021 3:10:58 PM

Let's say you get to swap KK for Archie right now...

would you do it?

2/14/2021 4:37:55 PM

If the moon was made of cheese, would you eat it?

I know I would.

2/14/2021 4:42:05 PM

I’d take Keatts over Archie

2/14/2021 5:07:20 PM

Quote :

"Let's say you get to swap KK for Archie right now... "

Fuck no

2/15/2021 3:42:43 AM

From J Pope at the media time this morning.

Keatts:

Quote :

"some teams took the non-conference for granted. The lack of non-conference games didn't allow some teams to get into a groove and establish a rotation."

Quote :

"the older teams are the team you see playing well."

Keatts is tellin on himself here.

2/15/2021 1:01:05 PM

how so?

2/15/2021 1:21:05 PM

You gotta at least have a meeting with Jim Christian right

2/15/2021 2:58:59 PM

^Nope, but me and John get together for potlucks every Wednesday

^^You can't say that experienced teams have an advantage this season and then start 3 seniors (before DD went out), with 2 juniors and a redshirt soph getting significant minutes.... and then completely shit the bed like his team has.

I get it, with the pandemic results are all over the map, but it's a down ACC with an experienced team, and this was the year to make a run. I'll stop beating a dead horse, I'm just really disappointed with how this team has played. Not optimistic for next year either after losing DD and DJ and replacing them with another undersized guard and a project big man.

2/15/2021 3:21:19 PM

We're currently starting two freshmen in the back court (apparently BB has been struggling with injury this season and last season). That rarely results in success, unless they're lottery picks.

[Edited on February 15, 2021 at 3:38 PM. Reason : although I think both Cam and Shaq are going to be good with some experience]

2/15/2021 3:37:27 PM

What are you talking about? Shak's first start was vs Duke.

Hayes has started here and there, but NEITHER of them have gotten the majority of the guard minutes this season.

BB, Allen and DD (before he went down) have gotten the majority of the backcourt starts and minutes for most of the season.

Hellems, Bates and DJ have gotten ALL of the starts and nearly all of the frontcourt minutes.

That's three seniors, two juniors and a redshirt sophomore. That has to be one of the most experienced teams in the country.

2/15/2021 5:36:42 PM

Quote :

" but NEITHER of them have gotten the majority of the guard minutes this season. BB, Allen and DD (before he went down) have gotten the majority of the backcourt starts and minutes for most of the season"

Technically true.

But Moore and Hayes average 18.4 and 19.5 mpg respectively. BB and Allen are averaging 25.2 and 26.5 respectively. It’s close to a 45/55 split. And Allen really doesn’t play the point at all.

Without doing an in-depth breakdown of minutes and who’s on the court at the same time...I’d venture to say that some combination of Hayes + Moore are running the point more than anybody else on the team. BB plays point. But also plays off the ball. Allen never plays point.

[Edited on February 15, 2021 at 8:05 PM. Reason : A]

2/15/2021 8:03:26 PM

It seems that you reply to half of my admittedly salty ass posts with this PG thing--especially that BB isn't a PG. We don't run a traditional PG. Markell was the closest we had since Keatts has been here, but he also happened to be our best player and playmaker and so he dominated the ball.

I guess you could argue that Hayes brings the ball up the court when he is there, but the nature of our offense is such that ANY of the guards could initiate the offense once the ball is up court and play-make (or fail to as is more often the case). DD, BB, Hayes, Shak, and even Allen all initiate the offense when they are in.

But....what are we talking about here?

The quote was that Keatts said experienced teams had an advantage during this season... obviously not the case for us.

Then Bullet chimed in and I guess argued that we weren't experienced because we have two freshmen guards? and claimed they are the starters (objectively not true for most of the season)

Is anyone really arguing that we don't have one of the most experienced teams in the country? I mean, in this era of transfers you simply don't have more starters that are seniors/juniors than we do right this season. By Keatts own words that should give us an advantage--hence my joke about him telling on himself.

Anyways, I think we can all agree that this season has been highly disappointing given the players we have and while Keatts gets a pass this season due to Covid (it obviously has affected teams to different degrees), next season is going be the litmus test.

I'm not optimistic because the roster looks worse next year and I don't think Covid affected us much more than most other teams. I think Keatt's half-court offense either sucks or is impossible for our caliber of players to pull off. And his roster mismanagement (from recruiting one-and-dones that don't come to campus to weird substitution patterns that often result in having our best players routinely on the bench) has us in the position we are in, but I am willing to wait it out.

I do like what I have seen from Bates, Hayes and Shak. Hellems is fine. Seaborn could be a good rotation player.


[Edited on February 15, 2021 at 10:14 PM. Reason : d]

2/15/2021 10:10:07 PM

Quote :

"I guess you could argue that Hayes brings the ball up the court when he is there, but the nature of our offense is such that ANY of the guards could initiate the offense once the ball is up court and play-make (or fail to as is more often the case). DD, BB, Hayes, Shak, and even Allen all initiate the offense when they are in."

you're right that any of the guards can initiate the O. Allen less so, because he's the weakest ball handler, but sure. but there is generally a primary ball handler in the game at all times (and for that matter, a primary initiator of the O). i'm only pointing out that i don't think the disparity of PT between upperclassmen and younger guys is all that significant. i think it's been a little closer to a pretty even split...but i guess i'm just nitpicking, sorry.

it's wrong to say we're an especially young team, i agree with you there.

Quote :

"Is anyone really arguing that we don't have one of the most experienced teams in the country?"

we are an experienced team - i don't know how we stack up against the rest of the nation, but sure, for the most part experience isn't an issue for this team. except at the PG position. which we knew was going to be the X factor coming into this season. to your point, yes BB and Allen can initiate the offense. but that shouldn't be their primary role when on the court - they are supposed to be our shooters and asking them to be distributors takes them away from what should be their strength. so i think as a caveat, it's fair to say that we are weak and inexperienced at a very important position.

Quote :

"I think Keatt's half-court offense either sucks or is impossible for our caliber of players to pull off. And his roster mismanagement (from recruiting one-and-dones that don't come to campus to weird substitution patterns that often result in having our best players routinely on the bench) has us in the position we are in, but I am willing to wait it out. I do like what I have seen from Bates, Hayes and Shak. Hellems is fine. Seaborn could be a good rotation player."

i share your concerns...i hope we see some improvement in the half court as hayes and moore mature and improve (and hopefully allen too, he's been a disappointment for me). i think hellems is more than fine, but it's not ideal for him to be our #1 guy (without DD)...yet that's kinda what it's setting up to be next year. i think we all knew the freshmen bigs weren't gonna be immediate contributors, but i'm disappointed that they apparently aren't even good enough to get on the court.

Also, I don’t get why we attempted so few 3s. We finished 2/9 vs Duke. And I think at halftime we were 0/2 or 0/3. We pretty consistently shoot 15-20 3s in a game. We obviously made a point to go big, starting both Funderburk and Bates so I’m sure that was part of it. But it was obvious halfway through the first half that wasn’t working.

[Edited on February 16, 2021 at 6:55 AM. Reason : A]

2/16/2021 6:48:49 AM

Indiana is ranked 29th in KenPom, we are 81. So sure fuck Archie.

2/16/2021 12:28:44 PM

https://packinsider.com/2021/02/15/is-kevin-keatts-the-right-man-for-the-job-at-nc-state/

2/17/2021 2:08:15 PM

That article is chock full of excuses. And there is no guarantee we were making the tournament last year. The previous year we were #33 in NET and got left out pissing all of us off.

They talk about youth and experience. Yet we started the year with this starting 5:

Bates - redshirt Sophomore
Hellems - Junior
Allen - redshirt junior
Daniels - redshirt senior
Beverly - senior

We don't even play our freshmen over 20 minutes a game. Some people act like they are playing starter minutes at 35 (Which at this point they absolutely should be!). Duke just beat us with a team playing nothing but Freshmen and Sophomores. Goldwire is the only Junior/Senior that even plays.

I mean sure Lecque and Hall hurt. Daniels hurts. But we are looking at losing out and having one of the worst seasons in school history.

2/17/2021 3:05:36 PM

Not clicking that because pack insider is 100% pure garbage

2/17/2021 3:44:16 PM

first 4-game conference road win streak since 1974

2/24/2021 8:44:07 PM

He's definitely made some good adjustments. Wake and Pitt sure, but tonight was a very nice road W.

Seat way less warm

2/24/2021 8:47:12 PM

He seems to have Bennet’s number. 4 game streak is nice, but gets an asterisk for no fans.

2/24/2021 11:07:02 PM

So home losses get an asterisk

2/24/2021 11:15:29 PM

TonyBennet Ramsey

2/24/2021 11:53:21 PM

Probably not serious, but saw a tweet addressing Keatts to Penn State rumors. It came out of nowhere to me but interesting to think about. Seems like an obvious downgrade in job, but definitely less pressure to perform (also would assume that isn't necessarily all that appealing to someone like Keatts).

3/3/2021 1:57:06 PM

PI!!! says "nah"

https://packinsider.com/2021/03/03/rumor-squash-keatts-jockeying-for-the-penn-state-job-no-hes-not/

3/3/2021 2:19:20 PM

LOL at Keatts to Penn State rumors. Just LOL

[Edited on March 3, 2021 at 4:07 PM. Reason : Also legit LOL that PI wrote an article based on a twitter troll account]

3/3/2021 3:39:02 PM

Was starting to get a little unsettled with Keatts a few weeks back. He has certainly turned things around with this 5 game streak.

3/3/2021 10:54:15 PM

yeah, he definitely deserves credit for righting this ship. definitely seeing growth from the freshmen and winning is fun

3/4/2021 5:46:51 AM

I was having serious doubts about the guy, but I can admit when I am wrong. I still think many of my individual criticisms were valid and this turnaround is largely due to changing the playing time up significantly. I'm glad he did it, and he gets credit for that but I would have liked to see the adjustment earlier in the season. Maybe he realizes it sooner with a bigger non-conference slate, but it was pretty obvious from the outside. It seems pretty likely that we are safely in the tournament this season if he had changed things up at minimum after DD went down, but the writing was on the wall before that too.

Seabron seemed like a raw athlete who didn't have the skills for the ACC in his limited minutes, but he has become a real player since jumping into the lineup. Shak and Hayes are exciting to see on the ball. Things are looking up for next season.

He lucked out with the Allen injury because I think he would have rode the Allen ship right into the ground. I don't blame Allen for the team being bad, but Allen playing 30+ min a game was one of the reasons why the freshmen couldn't get on the court.

3/4/2021 7:58:42 AM

^This a lot. And moving Beverly to the bench. Not coincidently his shooting percentages have went way up. He has hit 2 triples in 4/5 and against UVA was 1/2.

3/4/2021 10:17:36 AM

Beverly since moving to the bench (basically from the Duke game on is where his minutes have seen a drop off, although he’s still played 29 mins each of the last two games).

9/21, 42.8% on 3.

Prior to that: 20/50 on 3...40%.

His shooting has been fine all year. The best percentage of his career.

3/4/2021 11:00:34 AM

I think the difference shows up in the volume. When he was starting and on the ball a significant amount, he just wasn't taking the number of threes he is now. He wasn't getting the opportunity to get to the foul line or take layups because he was being asked to create his own opportunities and it wasn't happening.

3/4/2021 11:07:44 AM

He need to be at 50% from three to make up for him getting roasted on D.

KK lost some winnable games in the middle of the season. he's gonna have to make a big run in the ACCT.

Also his out of time out plays never seem to workout. I think he got one to work last night at the end of the 1st half tho.

3/4/2021 11:09:32 AM

^^only 1.5 more shots per 40 min now

3/4/2021 11:20:52 AM

Ok, you guys are right. There is no correlation between BB being a backup and playing off ball and our winning streak (and his point totals).


Figment of my imagination.


OR perhaps the shots he is taking are not only more, but better shots because the offensive is running better because Cam is on ball and we are feeding the bigs.

[Edited on March 4, 2021 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ^that is only counting 3s. My guess is his overall shot volume is up too. Also 1.5 = 50% increase]

3/4/2021 11:34:40 AM

Quote :

"There is no correlation between BB being a backup and playing off ball and our winning streak (and his point totals)."

You made your main point a straw man and relegated the argued point to parentheses?

[Edited on March 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM. Reason : ^Nope it's both his 2ptfg volume hasn't changed ]

3/4/2021 12:06:38 PM

i'm mostly just pushing back on the idea that BB was god awful earlier in the year and simply moving him off the ball has transformed the team and season. all around, the freshmen are playing better now. which allows BB to play off the ball more. and i agree with you, that's a better role for BB. and BB is playing well right now. i don't think he was as bad as advertised earlier in the year, though. although he certainly had bad games....and, as you have said, that is especially obvious when BB is forced into the PG role.

i promise, i really don't entirely disagree with jocristian. i just don't know if it's as black and white as "play Cam and Shak more often, win more games". it's a balance of getting them experience but when they weren't playing well earlier, you can't always just let them play through it or play when they are in over their heads. and they've had to grow into their roles and gain experience in order to get to where we're at now.

anyways, my initial post was just to push back on boozie's claim that BB's shooting is now miles better than it was previously.

[Edited on March 4, 2021 at 12:21 PM. Reason : f]

3/4/2021 12:19:40 PM

Really looked like at the end of the first half we were going to make a game of it. We showed nothing in the second half. Not sure what he said at the half but it didn't work today.

Year four and no NCAAT wins, only 1 appearance (Who knows about last year). Feeling indifferent at this point. Nice run to make the season respectable but still has to be considered a letdown.

3/10/2021 2:06:12 PM

Yeah, this season has been a letdown. I know we were picked to finish near the bottom in the preseason and technically we outperformed that, but I believe with our talent, we should have been top half of the ACC.

That said, I was pretty down on next season earlier and I now feel semi-confident after seeing the way the freshmen performed down the stretch. If Manny can continue to improve, we could be decent. Only problem is, I doubt Duke and UNC will be as down as they were this year.

3/10/2021 2:28:20 PM

KEVIN KEATTS IS A WINNER

3/10/2021 3:33:04 PM

Quote :

"I believe with our talent, we should have been top half of the ACC"

Never change, delusional nc state fans

3/10/2021 4:07:09 PM

What is delusional about that? We finished 9th.

It's delusional to think we could have/should have finished a few spots higher or more?

We completely choked the clemson game. We lost to a terrible miami team at home that was inexcusable. We didn't get to play VT, GT, Lousville who all finished above us in the standings. Maybe we lose all of them, but given the way we were playing at the end of the year, I would at least like to have that VT game. It's clear Syracuse had our number, but we played them fairly evenly the first two times. I'd still argue that they aren't more talented than us, just a better team that is better coached than us.

I guess it easier to scoff and just say that we won the games we should have won and we lost the games we should have lost. Congrats on being so awesome.

[Edited on March 10, 2021 at 5:03 PM. Reason : x]

3/10/2021 5:02:51 PM

We're finishing lower in the standings than programs like GT, VT, and Clemson. So yeah I think we can rightfully complain. We are in worse position than Josh Pastner and Brad Brownell. In two years, Mike Young took VT from the cellar to 3rd.

3/10/2021 8:06:39 PM

Did those teams have their best player tear his acl

3/10/2021 10:02:25 PM

Jury is still out. Next year will be a big year to see where we are headed. He did lead us to a nice run at the end of the year but what the hell was he thinking putting Bates in the middle of the zone and not Hellems??? Bates looks like he freaks out whenever he catches it there.

3/10/2021 10:33:31 PM