What is it that you like so much about the 9mm AR's? I have never shot one but I haven't really been tempted to build one either.

3/21/2014 2:38:24 PM

Really, nothing

I wanted a glock magazine 9mm carbine.
When I purchased the first one, I was under the impression it was a glock mag lower, and when it arrived, it was a colt model.
So, I ordered a glock model directly from DDLES, and waited the 7 months for it to arrive.
Now that it is built and running, I'll sell the colt model.

3/21/2014 2:57:46 PM

9mm ar platforms are def fun to shoot. I've shot a lot with the colt smg and while it is fun, the damn thing breaks down more than I'd be happy with

3/21/2014 3:22:36 PM

Gotcha, not that I need an excuse to buy another toy, I just wasn't sure if there was something about a 9mm model that would entice me over an SBR/Pistol+Arm Brace build that I want to do eventually.

3/21/2014 4:11:22 PM

Finally managed to get out to the range with my Savage 12LRP. Those are all 100-yard groups, shot from a bipod and a rolled up jacket. Those are a couple of the better ones; the bad ones were probably more like an inch or just a tick more. Some of that might be operator error; it was also very windy and gusty...at 100 yards, there's probably not a huge effect on bullet trajectory, but sometimes I'd see the target frames wobble in the wind.

At any rate, I shot 34 rounds. In 14 of them, it blew the primers out of the brass, with at least a couple more visibly loosened. Overpressure problem? Too-tight headspacing or something? It's a bone-stock factory rifle, shooting factory-loaded Hornady Match ammo in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Yes, I should have stopped before I did, as soon as I noticed it was blowing out primers. I just had to shoot it, though, as I've had the rifle for a long time before getting the scope and getting a chance to shoot, and figured "factory rifle, factory ammo...can't be all that bad."


by the way, I'm impressed so far with that Bushnell Elite Tactical scope. Obviously, 100 yards isn't really much of a test, and I didn't test the accuracy/repeatability of the adjustments, but optically, I think that I could probably read a book from 100 yards through it. Those grid lines on the targets are absolutely clear at that distance.

[Edited on March 23, 2014 at 7:25 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on March 23, 2014 at 7:39 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2014 7:22:31 PM

primers blowing out on factory ammo means high pressure. sounds like hornady is loading those rounds pretty damn hot. did you clean the barrel before you went out or did you shoot it just how it came from the factory?

3/23/2014 8:04:16 PM

also, did you notice any extraction issues like sticky bolt lift or the extractor popping off the rim and leaving the empty case in the chamber?

[Edited on March 23, 2014 at 8:13 PM. Reason : i would call hornady and see if they know of issues with that lot #]

i bet they'll exchange it for you. they probably would like to test what you have left to see if it's actually too hot.

[Edited on March 23, 2014 at 8:30 PM. Reason : afds]

3/23/2014 8:11:04 PM

OK, I was gonna start with Savage, but I guess it's worth calling Hornady, too.

I didn't notice any extraction issues. The bolt is tighter than most rifles when you're chambering a round, but I attribute that to probably very tight tolerances in the target action (which might also be the cause of the pressure issues). I had no issues with extraction, other than when I'd pull the bolt back, the case would remain hung on the face of the bolt sometimes, mostly on the rounds with blown out primers. They came off easily, though, and I was puling the bolt back very gently so as to intentionally not fling brass across the bench and make it easy to pick up.

Another thing that bothers me is that one of those primers that got blown out got up into the chamber when I was chambering a round without my realizing it, and obviously the bolt handle wouldn't close all the way. I fucked with it a few times, then took the bolt out and looked inside. I still didn't see it, so I put it back in and fucked with it some more. I finally found it and removed it, but not before fiddle-fucking with it a bunch with that primer in the chamber. I hope I didn't scratch anything or do any damage to the rifle. I kinda doubt it, as the primer is brass and I was being pretty gentle with it...and I shot those groups in the pictures after that incident.



Oh, and no, I didn't clean it beforehand, so it wouldn't have been a case of a wet bore causing pressure spikes.

3/23/2014 11:16:10 PM

I feel pretty confident that Savage would just tell you to get up with Hornady.

I usually at least run a patch with Hoppes #9 and then a couple clean patches down a new bore just to remove any of that preservative grease stuff out and make sure there aren't any obstructions. No telling what is in a bore from the factory. I doubt it would cause pressure issues like you saw, though.

[Edited on March 23, 2014 at 11:30 PM. Reason : that brass primer didn't scratch your hardened steel barrel. don't sweat that.]

3/23/2014 11:28:21 PM

haha, hopefully Hornady takes care of me. I have a couple hundred rounds of that 6.5 CR match ammo, which amounts to probably $250 of ammo.

3/23/2014 11:34:41 PM

I think they will. Hornady is a pretty good company to deal with.

and google tells me you're not the first person to see high pressures with the 140 A-max Creedmoor factory load.

[Edited on March 23, 2014 at 11:58 PM. Reason : ads]

3/23/2014 11:57:34 PM

Yeah I saw that, too

3/24/2014 12:10:53 AM

Form 1 SBR finally came back. It was a full 10 months.

3/26/2014 7:55:15 PM

Guess I better call in about mine; I submitted the paperwork a month before you and still haven't gotten it back.

3/26/2014 10:31:05 PM

I'm in the market for a new, subcompact, or at least single stack for my daily conceal carry. I'd like something 9mm if possible, but could be open to 380. I currently carry a full size 17+1 9mm double stack IWB and it is just too cumbersome, and I would like something a bit smaller and lighter to carry daily. I also have a S&W 642 I sometimes pocket carry, but I'd really like to just IWB carry when at all possible.

The Keltec's I've fired are too small (they feel like they are about to fly out of my hand every time I pull the trigger), so things along those lines are probably not for me.

As anyone have any first hand opinions on the S&W shield? How do they compare? And the LCP (which i've picked up, just never fired before- it feels a little small for me too...). Anything I look at getting in the SC line, I'd probably need a magazine grip extender on it just to hold on to, but that would not be a deal breaker if that isn't offered yet.

am I gonna have to just suck it up and go with a compact as opposed to a sub-compact? I wouldn't mind it too much, but I'm not sure Id find the drop in weight and bulk I'm looking for. Although, I will say I really do like the m&p9c, but that is kinda in between what I have and what I ultimately want to get.

3/29/2014 10:09:35 AM

the LCP is pretty much exactly the same as the keltec P3AT, so that's out for you.

3/29/2014 10:12:11 AM

that's what I figured... I haven't shot a PF9- how is that? it looks a little bigger, but looks can be deceiving.

3/29/2014 10:24:38 AM

idk, never shot one

3/29/2014 10:31:34 AM

PF-9 is small.

A shield or xds is probably the size you are looking for.
Haven't heard complaints on the shield.

3/29/2014 12:35:41 PM

Try a sig 938, esp with the extended magazine.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/jim-barrett/sig-sauer-p938-nightmare-review/

3/29/2014 3:08:00 PM

i shot a coworker's 938 and didn't like it. i probably would've liked it better with the extended mag.

3/29/2014 3:28:19 PM

went to several different shops and checked out everything they had. I've got 3 forerunners in the race:

Kahr CW9 - I really like the feel of this gun. and that seemed to be the favorite of all the folks at the shops as well, in terms of reliability and accuracy. Only problem is the lack of an manual safety (not a deal breaker, but if I keep one in the chamber, I like this option). It also only comes with 1 magazine, so more would need to be purchased later

Ruger LC9 - this one felt a bit funny with the weird curvature on the grip, but I'm sure it is something I could get used to. I love Ruger, it feels well made, and unlike the other 2, I'm pretty sure it comes with 2 useable mags

S&W M&P Shield 9 - I really like the way this thing feels, and it has the safety like the Ruger. The only gripe on this one is that I only like it with the 8 rd mag (the 7 round mag doesn't have the extension on it and I can't hold on to it well without it).

at the stores, the Kahr and Ruger were going for 399, and the Shield for 430, but I know a guy here who got his ffl and can get the shield for 390. I'm going to see what he can get the others for, and go from there. Any opinion on these three pistols?

[Edited on March 29, 2014 at 4:21 PM. Reason : mags]

3/29/2014 4:09:31 PM

i had a CW9. loved it. perfect for IWB. didn't feel like i was shooting a small pistol. safeties on DAO CCW guns are dumb.

3/29/2014 5:57:58 PM

Quote :

"I'm in the market for a new, subcompact"

Kahr MK9 or K9.

3/30/2014 12:04:59 AM

Ive come to the conclusion sc's are too small. Im pretty settled in on the kahr and the shield, depending on what I can get them for. Amd shield just moved up because looking om CTD, magazine extenders for the 7 round magazine are available for 6 bucks. So ill be able to use that magazine too.

3/30/2014 7:36:20 AM

My fiance and I both carry 9mm Shields. Very soft shooting gun. She has no problem with the 7 round mag and I don't know why you think you will. My carry before this was the Kahr. It was a good gun but is not equal to the S&W. Mine was good but 3 people I know have had to send their Kahr back. Customer service is fantastic and they got the repairs fixed quickly but I know same number of people with a Shield and none of them have had to. I also found the trigger to be an issue. It's a fantastic trigger but it's a mile long when compared to Glocks, M&P's, etc and that's one of the reasons I got rid if it. Going back and forth between it and my other guns made it obvious and my accuracy suffered for a mag or two. Also, since you're concerned about recoil, the Kahr does have sharper recoil than the shield.

3/30/2014 8:17:12 AM

My problem is that with the 7rd mag I can not get a good grip. It is only slightly better than the subcompact offerings. The 8 rd mag has the extended piece, allowing for a full grip. I have large hands, so the smaller guns I really am only getting 1.5 fingers on the grip. This is why things like the lcp and p3at are simply not an option.

[Edited on March 30, 2014 at 6:30 PM. Reason : the recoil isn't the true issue. even a 22 would be hard to hold onto with that little grip]

3/30/2014 6:29:24 PM

[Edited on March 30, 2014 at 6:31 PM. Reason : i'm scared to take a picture with my phone so i stole that off google images]

3/30/2014 6:30:39 PM

Can you get 2 fingers on the 7 round mag? If so then if say you're good to go. You'll just have to practice a bit to get used to the feeling since you're used to a full-size. If you can get 2 fingers on it then you should have complete control over the pistol and the only "problem" would be overcoming the mental hurdle. I felt the same way when I bought my first sub-compact but you get used to it.

3/30/2014 9:00:49 PM

Re: Savage blowing primers out of Hornady ammo


I emailed Hornady. The summary of the discussion is that there are no known problems with that batch of ammo, and new Savages have tighter than SAAMI specs, such as bores being .003" undersized. Hornady suggested that I slug the barrel (or have it slugged) to measure the bore diameter; if it isn't undersized, then to send some of the ammo to Hornady for testing.

I didn't want to fuck with that, though, just to find out that yeah, my bore is undersized, just like all of their new rifles (shit if anything is going to be really right, it's the target action/barrel)



...so I called Savage. Their rep said that yes, they do undersize the bores slightly, which helps with accuracy. He seemed a little surprised that it was blowing the primers out of factory loaded ammo, but seemed eager to help. I need to get him the serial # from the rifle (couldn't when I called, as I was out of town). I think they're going to handle it under warranty.

I just hope they don't fix the overpressure problem at the expense of compromising any accuracy!

3/31/2014 11:54:59 PM

they'll probably just rebarrel it

i'd slug it just out of curiosity. takes 5 mins. buy a pack of small egg sinkers and a wooden dowel.

4/1/2014 6:27:35 AM

maybe i wasnt paying attention but did you try other brands of ammo

4/1/2014 9:46:28 AM

9mm Glock Mag AR is done.
DDLES Lower
Rock River 9mm upper
5.5" barrel
Samson 10" Evo rail, with hand stop
Sig Arm Brace
Primary Arms Micro Red dot
TLR-1
Magpul MBUS and Moe grip
5.5" fake can (place holder) when the real can is not on it.

4/1/2014 2:38:27 PM

How do you like that primary arms red dot? I have one of their 3x mags to sit behind my Aimpoint and thought it was very well made. I wouldn't use their red dot on something that was a defense weapon but it seems like a great option for plinking.

4/1/2014 8:15:43 PM

The dot isn't quite as clear as my Aimpoint H-1, but for 1/6th of the price it is fantastic.
I get over a year battery life, and it has taken everything I have thrown at it.
I would fully recommend them, and the company fully stands behind its product.

4/2/2014 12:28:21 AM

^^^^ no, not yet. I have a bunch of the Hornady, so I want to be able to shoot it. I also doubt that there are many good options for factory match loads in 6.5 Creedmoor, haha.

______________

Has anyone seen the FRS-15 Thordsen Custom stock? This cracks me up; it's made to thwart these fucking states that keep trying to ban certain rifles with approaches similar to the stupid '94 AWB. It's non-adjustable, and it replaces the evil pistol grip with a kid-friendly...whatever the hell you want to describe it as:

4/2/2014 7:31:01 PM

whew, glad they banned the pistol grip

4/2/2014 10:59:11 PM

Quote :

"What is it that you like so much about the 9mm AR's? I have never shot one but I haven't really been tempted to build one either."

It's super fun to run suppressed. Plus the availability/cheap cost of 30 rd glock magazines is a bonus.

[Edited on April 4, 2014 at 12:05 PM. Reason : yup]

4/4/2014 12:03:50 PM

ordered the pistol Friday... should be in late this week, early next week (hopefully end of the week so I can go to the gun show this weekend and try out some IWB holsters for it, and maybe try to find some more magazines). I ended up going with the Shield 9, because the guy can get it for me for $385 (and that is new from the factory). Pretty stoked.


Now i'm on to saving for my next stuff- getting my upper custom made for my 5.56. Also been looking at the .300 blackout builds- might get stuff for my second lower going and start the process of getting a stamp so i can build one of those! that will definitely be a long process though.

4/6/2014 7:25:32 PM

unless you absolutely have to have a VFG, i don't see a reason to do SBR paperwork anymore now that we have the sig arm brace.

4/6/2014 7:30:21 PM

the who what now? because I would like the 9-10 inch barrels they offer, with the possibility to have add a can later on (most of the ones i've seen come threaded already), but I'm unfamiliar with this arm brace you speak of

4/6/2014 7:35:21 PM

See my 9mm AR build a few posts up.
That is a sig arm brace, not a stock, so it is considered a pistol and not a SBR.

I'm still planning on stamping it down the road.

4/6/2014 7:41:20 PM

sig arm brace goes on an AR "pistol" buffer tube. ATF says that with the arm brace it is a pistol, not a SBR, and is not an NFA item. it functions just fine as a stock instead of a arm brace. the only difference is you can't legally put a VFG on the pistol AR. if you do, i think it becomes an AOW.

google the sig arm brace. maximadrvr posted his a few days ago.

4/6/2014 7:41:28 PM

interesting...

4/6/2014 7:43:00 PM

4/6/2014 8:45:42 PM

firearm in the second pic needs papers...

4/6/2014 8:49:33 PM

Because of that vfg?

Saw something about the oal being more than 26"?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/625105_AR_Firearm_with_Sig_Brace_and_VFG.html




[Edited on April 6, 2014 at 9:04 PM. Reason : .]

4/6/2014 8:58:28 PM

i guess he's ok, then

4/6/2014 9:05:19 PM

if it's not a SBR or a pistol then it's a AOW and still needs paper work.

4/10/2014 5:28:05 PM

FYI: a 5.45x39 will not chamber in a 5.56 gun.
At my class this weekend, a student was picking up rounds off the ground and putting them in his gun.
In this case, he put an old 5.45 round into his Colt AR. To give you an idea of this student, his Eotech fell off three times during the class, as well as his rear MBUS.
It took two cleaning rods, and an 8lb mallet to remove the stuck round, as repeatedly dropping the bolt on it only wedged it in there tighter.









Also, what is in this inconspicuous case?


Oh, just this:

4/16/2014 1:23:23 PM