The 250 is nice, the trigger pull is light enough that it's not a full DAO, but it seems too expensive for what you get. Only ONE magazine? The recoil is light with a 9mm, but that's no comparison.

Recessed hammer is good for concealability. The grip is good, but SLIGHTLY too narrow for me. Interchangeable grip pads would be nice.

Slide is really easy to pull back, good for people with weak hands or old people.

They are trying to compete with glock and HK with polymer pistols *with a added twist of caliber change*, but they cheaped out on accessories.

Some of the magazines had a problem with loading all of the rounds, but I believe they worked that out and released a new one.

Don't factor in the interchangeability of the calibers, b/c you might as well buy the same gun in a different caliber instead.

unless you live in California where it's hard to get something else.

6/30/2008 4:07:14 PM

Eh, I buy a gun for the gun, not the accessories. I'd go with 9mm. That is the round I've settled on after years of shooting for a number of reasons, so the interchangeability of calibers is a non-issue with me.

I simply like the idea of a gun with Sig reliability (I never had an issue with my 229, even in .40) and the customization they offer with the different grips. We'll see.

6/30/2008 5:53:15 PM

I liked the sig pro's.

6/30/2008 6:54:47 PM

I like my P250. Only issue I've had is a few lite strikes with Wolf ammo and CCI small rifle primers (harder cup). Probably got about 1500 rounds through it consisting of reloads/blazer brass/UMC/wolf etc. Felt recoil is a little heavy but not too bad. Holster options are limited though more are becoming available, I have an IWB from TT Gunleather coming this or next week.

I like the trigger a lot. Not sure if it would be problematic for IDPA competitions or such but I've never short stroked on it. The 1 mag deal is really bullshit, just add $30 to the price and order one online.

As far as the caliber conversions/frame size conversions: 1) I'll believe they exist when I see them.2) Rumor has them in the $400 range. I'll just buy a G26/27 or something else if I want a smaller size for summer carry.

6/30/2008 9:20:16 PM

I actually liked the concept Springfield had with the XD compact. A small frame with a grip extension on the full-sized magazines. I just never fell in love with my XD so I sold it. I wouldn't mind seeing Sig do that with the compact frame.

I could deal with a $200 second frame, but I can't see the logic in changing barrels.

6/30/2008 9:41:26 PM

Quote :

"but I can't see the logic in changing barrels."

Change the caliber, not the serial number. One school of thought - It's for people who live in crappy areas of the country that have highly restrictive gun laws.

Also for people who like to put legos together.

7/1/2008 3:20:24 AM

check this out

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/06/26/pistol-cam-shoots-wh.html

7/1/2008 10:37:40 AM

The grip, the polymer part of the pistol, is ~$50 for sm, m, or large sizes. They are available for purchase now.

Slide lengths can be changed so the p250 can converted to sub-compact, compact, or fullsize. They are not currently available (never will be?) and I've heard prices from $200-$400+. Sig being Sig I'm anticipating the higher end.

Supposedly calibers can also be converted and the .40 S&W mags are already on the market. The conversion kits are not yet available but the whole .40 pistols are supposed to be out this month. I still don't know if a new slide is needed for the caliber conversion. It'll be a too expensive for a kit=slide+barrel+mags just to have a 9mm -> .40 conversion.



[Edited on July 1, 2008 at 2:33 PM. Reason : .]

7/1/2008 2:30:57 PM

Does anyone have any experience with the newish Smith & Wesson M&P15 series AR-15s? How would it compare with a DPMS/Armalite/Bushy?

7/4/2008 1:08:51 AM

any recommendations for some gunsmithing work on a 1911? triangle area or new bern/morehead city area are both fine.

I think I just want the trigger worked and the slide fitted so that the barrel doesn't rub against it.

7/4/2008 1:59:30 AM

The gunsmith at PDHSC is who I would recommend, but I'd call and ask for wait times.

Quote :

"Does anyone have any experience with the newish Smith & Wesson M&P15 series AR-15s?"

All I know is that they give you a crap gun to go along with it.

Quote :

"I still don't know if a new slide is needed for the caliber conversion. It'll be a too expensive for a kit=slide+barrel+mags just to have a 9mm -> .40 conversion."

It's just a toy at this point. In coming up with a new gimmick, they've made the thing too expensive. Tsk tsk on Sig. They were doing so well up to a point. I was considering one of the new combat carrys too. The coated internals won me over. That and I'm not a fan of plastic, yet.

[Edited on July 4, 2008 at 2:40 AM. Reason : until i've got to lug the thing for miles.]

7/4/2008 2:39:35 AM

this thread has a funny ass title

7/4/2008 2:58:44 AM

Quote :

"It's just a toy at this point."

I don't think you're giving Sig enough credit. I think the concept started with the grip modifications S&W and Ruger are allowing you to do now when they realized that, by creating a serial numbered chassis, customers could essentially build their gun on it with the grip, slide, and caliber they liked. From a manufacturing standpoint, it is pretty brilliant in that they only have to turn out one action, the rest just falls into place.

In theory.

I don't think the idea is a "toy" idea, but I don't think that the concept is fully mature either. So, we'll see.


On another note: Petors . . . I'm a fan.

7/7/2008 11:14:47 PM

Thoughts on the SIG 556?

7/9/2008 12:20:40 PM

too expensive for what it is?

7/9/2008 9:11:08 PM

^ indeed, wont do anything a good AR wont do. It does look spiffy and is different that the usual black rifle with tons of shit bolted to it.

7/9/2008 10:17:42 PM

unless you can get one for the same price as a run of the mill AR, i wouldn't waste the time.

[Edited on July 9, 2008 at 10:49 PM. Reason : time to make my own sling]

7/9/2008 10:49:28 PM

So the piston operation is not worth the extra $$$. I was told that it was a large improvment over the gas system. And I know nothing about rifles, so that helps.

7/14/2008 10:07:19 AM

HK 416 for a piston system

7/14/2008 10:10:43 AM

Quote :

"Also for people who like to put legos together."

FTW.

ALSO:

I've a Kahr PM9 that I'm about to start concealed carry with. When I bought the gun I purchased a cheapo Blackhawk (methinks) "inside the waistband" holster as well. I dont really like it. At the time of purchase (mid april 08) my only other option for that style was a factory Kahr piece, made of leather. Anyone know of any other available options for Inside the Waistband style holsters - I'm 5'6" 145#, so it needs to be as compact as possible.

7/14/2008 10:22:35 AM

http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=95

or

http://www.miltsparks.com

7/14/2008 11:07:21 AM

^many thanks

7/14/2008 11:16:05 AM

I am thinking about doing an AR build but the problem is I am a complete AR noob

anyone know of a good beginners guide to AR's

7/14/2008 1:36:16 PM

^the interwebs?

7/14/2008 2:38:28 PM

ok, i need some help...

i'm looking for a small handgun for personal protection. pretty much for my home, but i also work a lot of late nights in a "not so safe" area and, at times, have large amounts of cash on me (bank deposits)

criteria (bear with me, i've never owned a gun.. also never been arrested or in any trouble with the law, so getting a permit to buy shouldnt be an issue.. but i dont know where to get one.)
- must be a handgun (should be pretty obvious)
- i prefer black finish
- somewhat small, but not too small. i plan on eventually getting a concealed carry permit so i dont want something too bulky, but i am also 6'5 so i have kind of big hands, so it must also be comfortable for me to use
- ammo that is relatively cheap and easy to find.. i was thinking 9mm, but thats open to suggestion
- reliable
- accurate and easy to use/shoot
- easy to clean and maintain (any tips on this would be good as well)
- not too expensive.. i'm not a collector or enthusiast. i just want something that will do the job reliably in the event that it is ever needed.. i'll probably hit up the range regularly (1-2 times a month perhaps more)
- i'm kind of torn revolver vs. automatic.. so i'd also be grateful on advice here...

thats it i guess... TIA. also, perhaps leads on where to find one (like a good gun shop or something)

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 3:33 PM. Reason : never been arrested]

7/14/2008 3:32:25 PM

First, I'd say go ahead and sign up for a conceal carry course and gun permits at the same time. Wake County Sheriffs Dept downtown 330 S Saulsbury St. (Sp?).

What is your budget? Gun prices have been steadily creeping up this last year, along with ammo prices. Used might be your best bet, unless you need a warranty.

I'd say to go PDHSC Davi's and handle all the guns in your caliber.

9mm is fine.

Sub-compact is not in your future (esp. if you have large hands).

Most major brand guns are mostly reliable, but they need a bunch of range time before you can consider them for protection.

I would use a revolver for home defense (as it will sit around and there are no springs to wear) and a semi-auto for personal protection (more ammo).

SigSauer, Glock, XD, are all fine candidates.

7/14/2008 3:42:03 PM

i was kind of hoping to do the CCW first.. but i was just told today (a guy at work.. may be full of shit) that you have to shoot on a range as part of getting the permit and i havent fired a gun in over a decade. it just seems like it would be nice to have some experience before i went in there.. i guess i could go shooting with my dad sometime.

used would be fine.. budget would ideally be up to around $400 i guess... but, like i said, i dont want to spend any more than i really have to.

what do you mean a bunch of range time before they are reliable? like they have to be broken in?

it wont sit around, i hope to go to the range fairly regularly, so i was leaning towards an semi-auto

i was certainly going to try to find a store and hold as many as i could.. just trying to get an idea of what a good brand is.. i was just browsing online earlier, looking at sig, glock, s&w (they seem expensive).. so i guess i'm on the right track..

any suggestions on what to look for? just trying to have as much knowledge as i can before i walk in there..

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 4:06 PM. Reason : ..]

7/14/2008 4:05:41 PM

Do you have a friend who owns a few guns? Try having them along. Don't let them sway you though.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 4:26 PM. Reason : r]

7/14/2008 4:25:55 PM

A shotgun is better for home defense, but a pistol will do.

CCW classes are very easy. Mine required that you load 2, shoot 2, load 3, shoot 3. All from varying distances and required a couple hours of class time including a test.

It's not hard, even the worst shooter in our group did amazingly well and he hadn't fired a gun in 30 years with a 20 year old revolver. He out shot me.

You should practice a lot, whenever you have time. You want to make that pistol a natural extension of your hand. No thinking, just doing whenever the time comes.

I try to go to the range every week. A couple times a week if time and money permit.

If something breaks, you want it to happen while you're practicing under controlled conditions, not outside your building at night. Guns might be well made, but they aren't perfect. I have put a couple thousand rounds through my carry pistol and inspect it each time I clean it. I make sure parts are replaced in a timely manner. I might go overboard, but I rely on it.

I can't really suggest anything until you touch everything and see how it fits in your hand. I could recommend what I use, but it your hands are bigger, it won't matter.

Night sights are a nice bonus, so are extra magazines. A durable finish (not blued) is much better. Most name brand guns have a harder/more durable finish nowadays. Stainless steel is quite heavy ( I would recommend against it), polymers and aluminium alloy frames are lighter.

I think you are looking for a compact pistol - barrel length of ~3.9"-4.5" or so. Any longer and you reach full size territory (Sig p226, full size XD). Don't go in looking for something, try it all.

I wouldn't recommend anything crazy old though, as parts might be a problem later (i.e Sig P6, HK P7).

7/14/2008 4:27:59 PM

Dont just look at guns either. Go shoot some. I am sure that a lot of folks on here would be willing to let you tag along to the range, plus most ranges have a few beater rental guns. You may like the way the gun looks and feels but if you cant shoot it well what good does it do? It might as well be a club.

oh and wanted to add

my roommate took the cch course when i did, had never shot a handgun.......and passed with flying colors


[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 4:30 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2008 4:28:34 PM

cool.. thanks for the help.. i've also been talking to a guy at work, who used to be a licensed firearms dealer.. he actually said he thinks he has a few boxes of 9mm rounds that he'll give me so i can go to PDHSC and try out a few of their rentals...

7/14/2008 4:29:36 PM

PDHSC only allows you to buy their ammo for their rentals. Like most other stores.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM. Reason : I only have a few pistols, but I'd be glad to let you shoot them.]

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM. Reason : mine are wierd though.]

7/14/2008 4:30:32 PM

ok, thanks for the heads up, i didnt know that.

i may take you up on that.. but i will probably just wait until my dad gets back from cali and go up there with him sometime..

7/14/2008 4:34:06 PM

anyone have any input on having a muzzle break installed on a rifle?

7/14/2008 4:58:49 PM

dont do it, it makes it loud as hell. install a leadmule in the stock and a better recoil pad. if you do get one installed, the barrel will have to be removed, threaded in a lathe and reinstalled ( bolt action). low recoil ammo is also out there, you might have to order it though. What kind of rifle is it?

7/14/2008 10:32:23 PM

Quote :

"The gunsmith at PDHSC is who I would recommend, but I'd call and ask for wait times."

He's pretty much out of the picture for now due to health problems. My dad's 1911 has been with him just to have new sights installed for >6 months now.

7/14/2008 11:23:21 PM

damn he was REALLY cool too. i hung out bullshitting with him for an hour and he let me see all the personal guns he keeps in the safe. lotta good stuff in there. i would make my guns cool too if i had a lathe and other metal working tools in my basement.

7/14/2008 11:28:00 PM

Quote :

"ok, i need some help... i'm looking for a small handgun for personal protection. pretty much for my home, but i also work a lot of late nights in a "not so safe" area and, at times, have large amounts of cash on me (bank deposits) criteria (bear with me, i've never owned a gun.. also never been arrested or in any trouble with the law, so getting a permit to buy shouldnt be an issue.. but i dont know where to get one.) - must be a handgun (should be pretty obvious) - i prefer black finish - somewhat small, but not too small. i plan on eventually getting a concealed carry permit so i dont want something too bulky, but i am also 6'5 so i have kind of big hands, so it must also be comfortable for me to use - ammo that is relatively cheap and easy to find.. i was thinking 9mm, but thats open to suggestion - reliable - accurate and easy to use/shoot - easy to clean and maintain (any tips on this would be good as well) - not too expensive.. i'm not a collector or enthusiast. i just want something that will do the job reliably in the event that it is ever needed.. i'll probably hit up the range regularly (1-2 times a month perhaps more) - i'm kind of torn revolver vs. automatic.. so i'd also be grateful on advice here... thats it i guess... TIA. also, perhaps leads on where to find one (like a good gun shop or something)"

Some recommendations:
CZ-82 in 9x18 mak or CZ-83 in .380, they are cheap and pretty small, though they are of the cock and lock variety (no decocker)
Sig P6 in 9mm

these are around 200-300 and pretty good quality.

If you want simple controls, look into a glock or XD

7/15/2008 12:16:21 AM

guy at work was suggesting european american armory witness series in 40SW..

it also looks like PDHSC has a bunch of glocks on special (from their website).. im going to try to swing by there this evening or tomorrow evening and have a look around.

7/15/2008 4:32:01 PM

for what you want, a glock might just be the thing. i wouldn't choose a caliber just yet.

pdhsc has a glock rental available. start with 9mm and work your way up. some people don't like how snappy a 40s&w is, so don't have your heart set on it. of course, if you are like some people i know and have rather large hands and forearms, then it might not be an issue.

try lawmen's a little farther down the road. i forget the address. they might be able to beat PDHSC.

7/15/2008 5:00:49 PM

ok cool.. thanks.. a friend of mine has a ruger P94 (40sw) and he's gonna go up to pdhsc with me later this week to browse/shoot... i ran across that (p94) earlier today online and definitely wanted to check it out...

7/15/2008 5:42:44 PM

Quote :

"Sig P6 in 9mm these are around 200-300 and pretty good quality. "

Agreed, I really like the one I picked up off of here. Cant be beat for the money.

7/15/2008 5:46:09 PM

some if not all the P6's need new grips and they don't make them anymore. you might be able to find some pachmyrs (sp?) or wood ones, but orig. stock is unavailable.

now parts for the things are around. depending on the amt. of use, you might want to go ahead and replace the springs and if you think the trigger pull is too heavy, replace that one too with a p225 spring.

the p6 is a really good size, but it only carries 7-8 rds. newer pistols carry more than twice that without too much of a weight penalty.

7/15/2008 6:27:53 PM

What can you guys tell me about the cz/vz 58? The company that I do some work with is getting a few for ridiculously cheap straight out of slovak stockpiles to use in training. I havent had a chance to get my hands on one yet but hopefully will get to fire one on the range soon.

7/15/2008 6:57:36 PM

what kind of info are you looking for?

http://www.czub.cz/navody/cz58_en.pdf instruction manual.

it looks like an ak-47 but isn't.

7/15/2008 7:47:15 PM

What does everyone think of the H&K P7?

7/15/2008 9:10:30 PM

^ They're pretty nice - only heard good things about them.

7/15/2008 9:30:47 PM

i like the P7. the only thing i would mention is that you can only carry 9 bullets at time. if you can't get'em with 9, you might as well be running.

also cleaning them takes a little bit longer.

[Edited on July 15, 2008 at 10:02 PM. Reason : i should mention that magazines are a tad expensive too]

7/15/2008 10:01:10 PM

Quote :

"guy at work was suggesting european american armory witness series in 40SW."

E.A.A. Witness are basically copies of Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) made by Tangfolio (Italy). I'm sure they are good, but I say go ahead and get the real thing (After taking mine out for a couple spins, I am a very big fan of these Czech guns, and imitation is the highest form of flattery).


http://www.danwessonfirearms.com/product_detail.php?id=63
You should be able to get it from a distributor for about $100 less.

7/16/2008 12:05:26 AM

HK P7? Other than the fact that it's a somewhat quirky little squeeze-cocker that doesn't hold but 7 or 8 rounds, it's ok I guess. Popular in parts of Europe as a women's purse gun.

7/16/2008 10:22:42 AM