Pelosi tells Dems she wants to see Trump ‘in prison’

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/pelosi-impeachment-1355435

Quote :

"Nadler pressed Pelosi to allow his committee to launch an impeachment inquiry against Trump — the second such request he’s made in recent weeks only to be rebuffed by the California Democrat and other senior leaders. Pelosi stood firm, reiterating that she isn’t open to the idea of impeaching Trump at this time. “I don’t want to see him impeached, I want to see him in prison,” Pelosi said, according to multiple Democratic sources familiar with the meeting. Instead of impeachment, Pelosi still prefers to see Trump defeated at the ballot box and then prosecuted for his alleged crimes, according to the sources. "

impeachment would make him unprosecutable?

6/6/2019 11:07:31 AM

^ I wonder how that works... impeachment is a political process not a legal one, would it even trigger "double jeopardy" statues if the senate doesn't convict?

Seems like it shouldn't but who knows... also can't they just leave other crimes off the impeachment bill (like the Cohen stuff Trump is involved with) and let those put trump in jail?

6/6/2019 11:34:16 AM

theres no indictment by a grand jury, it's not a criminal trial, double jeapordy doesn't apply

surely pelosi would know that, i'm hoping that's not the point she meant to make

6/6/2019 11:50:02 AM

@whstancil:

Quote :

"Also, it feels like Pelosi should think through the incentives created when you say “We will try to jail you, but as long as you’re president, we’ll leave you alone” "

6/6/2019 1:20:47 PM

the parallels between this and the "we don't need to escalate the supreme court obstruction because hillary will be elected soon and it will go away" line of thinking are too scary

6/6/2019 1:43:34 PM

Seems to be happening finally...

9/24/2019 12:20:44 PM

hopefully it's not just forming a committee or some other half-measure

9/24/2019 1:43:39 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/whistleblower-timeline-ukraine-team-trump/index.html

Here's the timeline.

9/24/2019 7:06:03 PM

9/24/2019 9:02:03 PM

9/24/2019 11:34:47 PM

Quote :

"“The President actually said to Nancy Pelosi, ‘Hey, can we do something about this whistleblower complaint, can we work something out.’ And she said ‘Yes, you can tell your people to obey the law.’ So she quickly swatted that down.""

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1176631193279913985

9/25/2019 7:02:29 AM

this thread should have been called 'countdown till democrats fuck this up'

9/25/2019 7:46:37 AM

How much do you want to bet Earl falls for the WH “read out” of the call?

9/25/2019 8:50:22 AM

Comey doesnt want Teump impeached, said "I think the American people would be let off the hook"

9/25/2019 10:08:46 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-to-release-transcript-of-trumps-ukraine-call-as-impeachment-efforts-begin-11569403803

Looks like wsj got a transcript probably from the Whitehouse. Seems to be what we expect— trump insinuating aid is conditional on them falsely attacking Biden.

9/25/2019 10:13:17 AM

Why... why did the WH think this was exculpatory??

9/25/2019 10:16:18 AM

if you think release is inevitable it's better to release it and just gaslight people that it clears you

can someone paste the contents

[Edited on September 25, 2019 at 10:20 AM. Reason : .]

9/25/2019 10:19:54 AM

I guess.

Trump is a narcissistic dementia-addled idiot so it is what it is with him. But wow, Bill Barr is insanely corrupt and actually has full mental faculties.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

[Edited on September 25, 2019 at 10:23 AM. Reason : Link]

9/25/2019 10:21:05 AM

it will also allow them to keep pushing the biden narrative, that will be the story on rightwing media and even other media outlets will uncritically repeat the biden related claims in their coverage of the transcript so it will help the narrative

9/25/2019 10:24:11 AM

Biden is done with or without this. He will likely finish third at this point IMO.

I feel bad for the Ukrainian President tbh. He simply has to defend Trump and cozy up — his country needs to be close allies with the US, no matter who leads it.

9/25/2019 10:29:58 AM

reminder clarification, this is a memo of the call and not a transcript

9/25/2019 10:39:59 AM

it even reads as if something that Trump told them, given all the flattery he mentions the Ukrainian president laid upon him. there is also this one part, well two, on page 4 that bothers me. the minor one is that they use their instead of they're, which shouldn't be the case with a note taker at that level.

but the big thing is Trump never mentions the company in the 'transcript' yet the Ukrainian president later says I will look specifically into this company you mention. Seems like evidence something was left out.

9/25/2019 11:00:35 AM

it's way too short for a 30 minute phone call, there is plenty that's been removed

9/25/2019 11:17:12 AM

There are ellipsis on Page 4 (first paragraph near end) right when he asking to investigate fwiw.

Also, put aside that... the DNC server in Ukraine? What the actual fuck? President InfoWars has a melting brain.

9/25/2019 11:27:52 AM

^ yeah underappreciated how hes relying on conspiracy theories instead of the actual info he certainly could snake his way into...

9/25/2019 11:32:52 AM

Let's all give a long golf clap for Mitt Romney for being the lone GOP member who's openly acknowledged the 'seriousness' of this. Of course he wouldn't say it's impeach-worthy, but at least he hit the ball onto the fairway.

[Edited on September 25, 2019 at 11:43 AM. Reason : Senator]

9/25/2019 11:42:41 AM

if the last 3 years are any indication, he will come out of this stronger and "MAGA"-er, in the eyes of his supporters.

we all know he/they will spin it into something positive and wholeheartedly believe it.

9/25/2019 12:07:15 PM

so the white house emailed their talking points to house democrats and then sent another email to recall them
https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1176884014768185344

9/25/2019 12:30:29 PM

^

I almost couldn't fathom how it could be real, but given the WH's confidence in trotting out that 'transcript' I'm no longer incredulous. Just wow.

9/25/2019 12:49:19 PM

No doubt Trump will survive this with the GOP putting party before country, but it will put on the record that there was an attempt to hold him accountable.

9/25/2019 3:39:58 PM

omg pelosi is reportedly telling house dems impeachment should only be on ukraine

amazing

9/25/2019 4:13:29 PM

Is there wisdom there though? Let’s say they impeach on obstruction of justice, senate exonerates, doesn’t that mean he can’t be charged with that once he leaves office?

He deserves a true criminal trial without the senate republicans shielding him.

9/25/2019 5:28:05 PM

bribing a foreign president to dig up dirt on his likely opponent is absurd.

9/25/2019 5:37:27 PM

...and yet here we are.

9/25/2019 6:04:10 PM

Wow anyone who sees the transcript can see a clear quid pro quo. Especially the part where Trump explicitly tells him he won't release the aid until the prosecutor who was investigating his business is fired.

9/25/2019 6:21:41 PM

^ apparently your homegirl Tulsi doesn't think so...

9/25/2019 6:48:10 PM

this president is a brazen genius at deflecting controversy and corruption. Somebody needs to find a clever solution to this quick if the Dems have any chance of going toe to toe with him.

9/25/2019 6:48:50 PM

^^ he’s being facetious.

Earl is in lockstep with Trump.

(And he may even be referencing the Biden video that is out of context that has been circulating the rightwing fever swamps because that is joe Earl rolls)

Quote :

"Is there wisdom there though? Let’s say they impeach on obstruction of justice, senate exonerates, doesn’t that mean he can’t be charged with that once he leaves office?"

No, there isnt. The Senate is going to acquit regardless. Make every GOP Senator vote that they are OK with the emoluments violations, the extortion, the obstruction and everything else. Pelosi has gotten this wrong every step of the way.

[Edited on September 25, 2019 at 7:13 PM. Reason : X]

9/25/2019 7:09:20 PM

Quote :

"Is there wisdom there though? Let’s say they impeach on obstruction of justice, senate exonerates, doesn’t that mean he can’t be charged with that once he leaves office? "

there is no double jeopardy, an impeachment trial is not a criminal trial, he could be criminally charged out of office regardless (he probably won't be though, we usually let former politicians slide)

there is no wisdom here

9/25/2019 7:23:24 PM

Quote :

"Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons to say there’s no there there when there’s obviously lots that’s very troubling there."

-- Ben Sasse

(still just words though)

9/25/2019 7:27:29 PM

At an absolute minimum, all the other shit needs to be investigated and findings made “mostly” public.

Politically, the GOP needs to vote on every crime they’ve defended the last three years. It needs to destroy them as a party.

But speaking for myself personally and friends, we need some answers. So many lingering questions from all the previous fiascos, this is gonna take forever to unwind.

9/25/2019 7:33:14 PM

So apparently part of 5he whistleblower complaint was handling of records of the call, which makes this "transcript" even worse

9/25/2019 9:15:57 PM

Oi. If this "transcript" is all the Dems got, they are screwed. It reads like Trump's usual nonsensical ramblings. The Dems better hope that either they've got a source with the *real* transcript and it contradicts this one massively, or that they know what Rudy and Barr talked about with the Ukrainian president. Or they've got clearcut obstruction on the whistleblower complaint itself (and even that might not be enough)

It all stinks to high heavens, but it's far from the smoking gun the Dems need to even hope to pull this off without major backlash.

[Edited on September 25, 2019 at 9:40 PM. Reason : ugg]

9/25/2019 9:39:22 PM

It's not all they have

9/25/2019 10:33:01 PM

All of this has been so troubling

TROUBLING...

9/25/2019 11:05:07 PM

The not-a-transcript is very damning if that’s how trump talks to foreign leaders.

Problem is that you have to have a lot of background knowledge to understand what’s so damning about it, the average person who doesn’t follow politics might only pick up on Biden’s name being referenced and nothing else.

That is a problem but I think the media and democrats have been doing a good job contextualizing it so far and it doesn’t help that Giuliani basically having a conniption about it. Plus the whistleblower complaint, which was just declassified and should be released soon, supposedly has more instances and more context and details.

This is all against the backdrop of trump being generally corrupt. We have a solid year though for this to weigh on trump’s voter turnout and voters basically only have about a 2 week memory.

9/25/2019 11:14:16 PM

I generally agree, but if it has to be "contextualized" to make any sense, then it's simply not enough. That will easily be spun as "fake news" and "really bad people." The Dems need something concrete, irrefutable, and unexplainable, something akin to Nixon erasing tapes. Even the withholding (and eventual granting) of aid is weak at this point, because it happened so far removed from the phone conversation. If the Dems can show internal movement immediately before and after (I'm talking within days or even hours) the call, it would help.

Also, if that's how he actually talks to world leaders, can we please 25th Amendment his ass right now? Though the Ukrainian president sounded like a fool, too.

9/26/2019 7:09:03 AM

They have the whistleblower report and will also have communication, memos, and orders that the phone call generated as well as testimony from people involved.

9/26/2019 8:00:33 AM

FWIW, NPR got hold of a memo that cleared the funds to go to Ukraine, directly refuting Trump's claim that he was holding funds because of corruption concerns.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup

9/26/2019 8:06:46 AM

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

9/26/2019 9:03:02 AM