then he just lied on the form and the background check was clean

this is another example of how we need to fix NICS, but good luck starting that discussion

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 11:29 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2017 11:27:06 AM

mandatory waiting periods would be good too

11/6/2017 11:33:18 AM

I think any normal person would be ok with a mandatory waiting period. I know I would be. They are already in place for handguns here in NC and nobody seems to care.

I'm afraid all these mass shootings are just spurring more loonies on to do the same.

11/6/2017 11:36:05 AM

there is no mandatory waiting period in NC

11/6/2017 11:40:19 AM

^^Yes, your last comment is exactly what I've been thinking. The way information travels now it makes sick people crave that kind of fame.

The Sheriff just said in press conference he shouldn't have been able to attain gun. Will be interesting to see who's responsible for that slipping through the cracks.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 11:40 AM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 11:40:38 AM

^^You can't just go and buy a handgun. Unless it is just a Wake Co. thing. You have to apply for a permit, and unless I'm not remembering correctly, you don't get that permit until 5 business days from your application.

11/6/2017 11:41:47 AM

if you have a CCW you can just go in and buy one

it's only purchase permits that take a little while to get

11/6/2017 11:43:38 AM

^That's what I'm talking about though.

Some random joe who gets pissed off at a co-worker can't just go to Cabela's and get a handgun and use it.

But that's not the issue here. I'm ok with the same type of setup for a rifle.

11/6/2017 11:45:03 AM

it's almost as if there is a waiting period for purchase permits

11/6/2017 11:45:31 AM

There is no statewide mandatory waiting period for purchase permits, it’s at the discretion of the sheriff in each individual county. I’ve applied for and received a purchase permit in 20 minutes, and bought a pistol 20 minutes later.

11/6/2017 12:36:17 PM

Quote :

"mandatory waiting periods would be good too"

Quote :

"Kelley bought a Ruger AR-556 rifle, used in the attack on the church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, in April of last year"

So this would have helped precisely how in this situation or the Las Vegas shooter? I have my CCW and have nothing to hide, so I'm not really against it personally, I am just asking how the fuck would this help in these major tragedies. Honestly I don't think it goes far enough and damn if your going to get the real gun nuts to give up anything, but by the same token once the ball starts rolling on restrictions, how do you keep it from snowballing?

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 1:10 PM. Reason : ]

11/6/2017 1:10:35 PM

^Does it matter at this point?

That slippery slope fear is what is keeping Ruger CEO's fat and rich. Several years ago I was in the slippery slope crowd. Now? It's happening too much. I don't blame guns, or our gun laws, for what has happened, but we've got to do something now.

I think as a society we've become too numb to violence. This happens, it's on the news for a week, and we move on to the next disaster. We don't give a shit. And now I believe that every time one of these makes the news, it gives the next guy enough gumption to do whatever it was he was planning.

And laws don't mean a damned thing when someone is willing to take their own life to do this type of massacre.

11/6/2017 1:18:05 PM

Quote :

"The Sheriff just said in press conference he shouldn't have been able to attain gun. Will be interesting to see who's responsible for that slipping through the cracks."

If someone sold him/gave him this outside of the bounds of the law (and no, I don’t know what the law is in TX), can that person be charged for something serious like accessory?

11/6/2017 1:24:47 PM

^
I’m betting he slipped through a loophole. He acquired a gun because no statute enforced a process to stop him.

11/6/2017 1:28:15 PM

this is probably just an issue of his conviction not being in NICS, which is a common problem

in the case of private sales the standard is pretty low, you just have to reasonably believe the buyer is allowed to own the gun and it's only illegal to sell to them if you do so knowing that they can't buy a gun for various reasons. this is one of the many reasons straw sales are currently so hard to prosecute

11/6/2017 1:30:28 PM

^^^^ Well it would be the employee or manager at the Academy Sports and Outdoors that sold it to him I guess. One would have to assume they either didn't perform the proper background check, or his record wasn't properly documented. Possibly something to do with military crime records not marrying up with the database they are using.

This was not a private sell. Everything I've read says it was purchased at Academy.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 2:58 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:00 PM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 2:58:33 PM

What's the deal with that private sell law? People selling a gun are just supposed to be able to profile somebody as a criminal? And if they are a bad judge of somebody, they could go ahead and sell a gun to a mass murderer without knowing it, and say they had no way of knowing?That seems like a pretty shitty law that's unenforceable.

Also, looks like this stemmed from a domestic dispute: http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:12 PM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 3:06:17 PM

that's the "gunshow loophole," but gun nut pedants get mad when you call it that because it's really a private party loophole and doesn't have anything to do with gunshows (which often involve FFL dealers)


the reason this guy was probably able to buy his gun, and the same reason some other mass shooters have, is that criminal convictions sometimes don't make it into the NICS or don't make it in a timely matter so someone can pass the background check even if they shouldn't be able to. Also, if the NICS flags it but there is no response in 3 days the can sell you the gun, and this is a problem because there is a backup so many people buy guns without being approved.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:23 PM. Reason : .]

11/6/2017 3:20:07 PM

on the bright side, all of these mass shootings are really reinvigorating tww!

11/6/2017 3:25:01 PM

There's gotta be more to it than you are saying. If you are a private seller you're just supposed to be able to tell somebody is a criminal by looking at them? Do they at least have to sign something that says they aren't a criminal to limit liability of the seller? This seems like it would be a huge profiling issue.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:30 PM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 3:29:07 PM

^^^But his convictions happened 5 years prior? I guess we don't know when he bought the gun though. 5 years should be more than enough time for data to populate NICS.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:29 PM. Reason : ^]

11/6/2017 3:29:10 PM

^article says he bought the gun April last year at Academy Sports.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:33 PM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 3:32:16 PM

Quote :

"There's gotta be more to it than you are saying. If you are a private seller you're just supposed to be able to tell somebody is a criminal by looking at them? Do they at least have to sign something that says they aren't a criminal to limit liability of the seller? This seems like it would be a huge profiling issue."

for private sales there isn't anything more to it for long guns in a lot of states and even hand guns in a some states

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:37 PM. Reason : few to some]

11/6/2017 3:35:25 PM

At least this guy fits the profile of somebody who would do this, and we are getting a lot more info than Vegas.

11/6/2017 3:36:11 PM

then why haven't they released the security footage?

11/6/2017 3:37:22 PM

Kinda funny how people's right to practice religion was just trumped by America's steadfast devotion to firearms. Not funny, actually. Disgusting.

11/6/2017 3:37:57 PM

WTF kind of statement is that?

11/6/2017 3:39:58 PM

^^^pretty sure MGM is keeping a lid on that for legal reasons

Ahh, you mean the church shooting. I'm just saying at least we understand a little more about the shooter, and his possible motivations, ie domestic violence and disputes.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:42 PM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 3:40:59 PM

yea the govt did a lot better with the patsy this time.

11/6/2017 3:45:44 PM

^^^ one that's rooted in reality?

It's actually a horrible dichotomy for religious gun nuts. Which is more important: God or guns?

I'm not saying any of this to mock anyone, but when people are massacred during church by someone who got guns pretty easily, it's time to wake up.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:46 PM. Reason : .]

11/6/2017 3:46:15 PM

if only things were that black and white

11/6/2017 3:49:46 PM

That's a fucked up thing. I bet you said the same, callous thing about the Vegas shooting, you know, since they were all county listening gun nuts?

Do you say that when Muslims in Iraq are car-bombed by ISIS?

11/6/2017 3:50:14 PM

^^omg, racist!

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:52 PM. Reason : ]

11/6/2017 3:52:15 PM

^^ are iraqis fighting for car bomb rights?

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:53 PM. Reason : the right to bear bombs]

11/6/2017 3:53:26 PM

I should start praying that guns become illegal I guess. Probably equally as effective as hoping congress ever does anything about mass shootings.

11/6/2017 3:55:04 PM

I don't know - neither does Ucanwait regarding the people in that church. They could have been in the middle of a sermon about gun violence for all he knows.

You people would jump all over me for making some kind of generalization like that.

11/6/2017 3:55:54 PM

Dude, you're missing the point entirely.

11/6/2017 3:56:55 PM

No, I understand the point, you apparently find it funny that the same people you think are out there on the lines championing gun rights were gunned down in their church, by someone using the same rights they champion, thus using their freedom of religion and right to bear arms simultaneously.

It's hilarious.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 3:59 PM. Reason : asdfas]

11/6/2017 3:58:30 PM

I don't find it funny. It's ironic, and disgusting, but I don't think it's funny at all.

11/6/2017 3:59:13 PM

♫ a little tooooo ironic, yeah i really do think ♫

11/6/2017 4:00:43 PM

It isn't ironic at all, because you're making a gross assumption, a generalization, about the people in that church. How do you know they champion the right to bear arms? Why can't they just be churchgoers and that's it.

11/6/2017 4:01:52 PM

Ok, maybe paradoxical is a better word for it. Catch 22?

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that an entire family, including a baby, was gunned down at fucking church.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 4:02 PM. Reason : hint: I wasn't talking about the people killed. I'm talking about NRA fanboys]

11/6/2017 4:01:59 PM

^Ok, that makes it a little better I guess?

But at this point, I'm hoping most people see through the NRA.

And you're blown away by an entire family gunned down? That church was 4% of the town.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 4:04 PM. Reason : asda]

11/6/2017 4:04:19 PM

literally no one is going to "see through the NRA" because of this

11/6/2017 4:05:33 PM

What are the god and guns crowd going to say now? All preachers/pastors should be armed to defend their congregation? Im sure Jesus had a concealed carry.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 4:11 PM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 4:06:52 PM

yes, they are already basically saying that

11/6/2017 4:09:29 PM

No, not because of this.

What has the NRA done for anybody except itself and gun manufacturers? They're an expensive organization to belong do, and they don't do anything for their individuals.

11/6/2017 4:09:53 PM

Quote :

"What are the god and guns crowd going to say now? All preachers/pastors should be armed to defend their congregation?"

I know some of our church members carry

11/6/2017 4:25:54 PM

Quote :

"President Donald Trump, asked about the deadly shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, labeled the incident a "mental health problem at the highest level," not a "guns situation.""

hahaha....of course.

11/6/2017 4:29:41 PM

11/6/2017 4:33:55 PM